Above 1200 Sq/FT Drafty Barn into Everything Workshop - the VolksBarn? (100x40) (U.K.)

[roger440]

I used 100w version, Philips LED 100w High Bay Light 5000K IP65. Eight of them.

More than bright enough.

I have however added lower level battens around the ramp (2 poster still to do) and another to do over bench.

You can just see the battens creeping into this pic.

Never going to get good working light that high up from a small number of fitting.

 

[VolksWomble]

Are you going to seal up the gap between the new cladding and the concrete block wall?

Update for @roger440 …



timber cap on the block work wall with foam fillers

 

[roger440]

Update for @roger440 …



timber cap on the block work wall with foam fillers

Nice! And a handy ledge to put **** on

That steel looks new. Is this replacing the slatted timber side?

 

[VolksWomble]

this is on the side that I replaced the perforated galvanised steel with new green steel. im going to start on the timber side shortly, once I have all 14 of these capping beams installed... I’ve done 5 so far.

 

[roger440]

this is on the side that I replaced the perforated galvanised steel with new green steel. im going to start on the timber side shortly, once I have all 14 of these capping beams installed... I’ve done 5 so far.

Thats the downside of massive sheds. Everything takes forever, is highly repetative and costs a fortune....................

 

[VolksWomble]

Amen!


but also, MASSIVE SHED!

 

[VolksWomble]

Minor update - been working on capping the blockwork with timber. One bay was missing a row of blocks (apparently this wall was bumped into, and rebuilt shorter…)

it would appear that the 12 years since I last (and, coincidentally first) did any brickwork has not improved my bricklaying skills…

i covered it up before taking any pictures.

 

[ChefRex]

Why didn’t you pour it when doing the rest?

 

[VolksWomble]

It was literally one additional course of 8 blocks on an existing wall… pouring it would have been stronger I suspect (these blocks are not strong) but the first 4 courses were already there… and it never occurred to me!

 

[ChefRex]

It was literally one additional course of 8 blocks on an existing wall… pouring it would have been stronger I suspect (these blocks are not strong) but the first 4 courses were already there… and it never occurred to me!

I actually got confused with another thread, carry on.

 

[dutchgray]

Why didn’t you pour it when doing the rest?

Forming and pouring concrete walls is unusual in the UK for general construction, you see it a bit for large commercial projects and lots in civil engineering for structural retaining walls, but for houses and small barns and such we just don't build using that method.

We tend to just build block work on to concrete foundations, because we have no great windload to worry about or earthquakes most of the time we don't even tie them to the foundations with rebar and usually just use 4" thick solid blocks. Gravity is all that holds most of our buildings up.

 

[BiTurbo228]

Forming and pouring concrete walls is unusual in the UK for general construction, you see it a bit for large commercial projects and lots in civil engineering for structural retaining walls, but for houses and small barns and such we just don't build using that method.

We tend to just build block work on to concrete foundations, because we have no great windload to worry about or earthquakes most of the time we don't even tie them to the foundations with rebar and usually just use 4" thick solid blocks. Gravity is all that holds most of our buildings up.

I concur. Highly unusual to do the sort of dwarf wall monolithic pours here, though I haven't looked at big industrial units very closely so they might be more common here.

For outbuildings we've done before we've put down 2 courses of bricks, stud wall on top of that, then drilled through both into the slab at intervals to fit studded rod in chemical anchors. I haven't done much blockwork though, mainly timber structures that need tying down anyway.

Can concur that our chimney was mainly held up by gravity! When we were extending it we just lifted great chunks of brickwork off the old chimney without even having to disturb it!

 

[VolksWomble]

We tend to just build block work on to concrete foundations, because we have no great windload to worry about or earthquakes most of the time we don't even tie them to the foundations with rebar and usually just use 4" thick solid blocks. Gravity is all that holds most of our buildings up.

yep, exactly this. These blockwork walls are literally just infill between the steel frame elements, built onto concrete strip foundations originally, before I added the floor. These walls have poor lateral strength, as they have no piers or corners, and aren’t tied into the uprights or the foundations - hence why this wall had suffered from a vehicle knocking it over at some point in the past.

 

[VolksWomble]

Since yesterdays picture was pretty poor, here’s a slightly better one…



it didn’t come out as bad as I thought… timber capping cut but I’ll give it a week or so for the mortar to go off before I screw it down.

this is on the timber side, you can see one of the various attempts to add plastic to the inside. I’ll be pulling all that off once I get the external cladding on.

the new timber caps will also act as a bottom rail for the boards. At the moment they are all floating in mid-air and have moved a bit…

 

[VolksWomble]

The drafty barn is starting to get a bit less drafty now - over the last few weeks we’ve had wind from all directions, and replacing the cladding on the south side, and filling in all the gaps at the bottom with timber and foam has made a huge difference.

this weekend I finished off the timber cappings on the block work walls on both sides, ready to start on the cladding on the north side next weekend.



as an aside, I’ve been calling these cappings, for want of a better term, but in conversation, my dad referred to them as sole plates. In my mind sole plates are for attaching rafters to… or is it just a general term for the bit of wood on top of a wall?

I also made a start on erecting the mezzanine floor - the forklift has managed to stay working for long enough to get 2 of 3 RSJs up. Just the middle one left to do.



as you can see from the picture, the forklift is making is presence felt leaving oily marks all over the nice new (in my head) floor, and a scaffold tower has replaced the cherry picker thanks to Facebook Marketplace.

this means that along with the lights I acquired a couple of weeks ago I am also starting to think about (by which I mean acquire stuff for) the electrics.

 

[dutchgray]

I would call it a capping because it isn't doing anything structurally, but calling it a plate is probably acceptable.

 

[VolksWomble]

As I move and unpack stuff I thought I might share some of the stories behind things. I love acquiring stuff through slightly unconventional means - small ads, eBay, boot fairs and auto jumbles are all fair game, but I also like scrapyards, factory clearances and skips! As such much of my kit has a story behind it, and what better captive audience to Subject those stories to!

in the town we recently moved from there were a couple of traditional scrapyards - not automotive but small family run industrial metal recycling centres. These places were tolerant of people pulling things out of their skips as well as bringing stuff in. Thus I ended up calling in most Saturday mornings over a period of over 10 years, often coming home empty handed but occasionally (enough to keep the addiction going) finding real treasures. Generally prices paid were based on scrap value, based on weight...

on one trip I found most of this bandsaw…



the table was rusty, and it was missing the saw band wheels and all of the switch gear. The motor was still in place, and was single phase. As it happens I was also in the habit of grabbing industrial switchgear from scrapped machines at both of the scrapyards when they were there, so that was the buttons sorted. I put a wanted ad on a U.K. home shop machinists ad site, and managed to get a pair of blade wheels for very sensible money. Startrite bandsaws of this sort of size, particularly single phase ones, tend to go for very strong money here, so for a total outlay of about £50 I was very pleased with this.

even more happy as on this past Saturday, when i unwrapped the pallet wrap, cleaned the surface rust off the table, and plugged it in and used it without any issue for the first time in a couple of years. To this day I don’t know why it ended up in the scrap, but I’m glad it did!

other scrapyard finds include my lathe, drill press, bead roller, welding table, storage drawers… the list goes on. I’ll try to highlight them as I find them.

 

[VolksWomble]

i have also been adding structure to the mezzanine floor…







it’s not bolted down to the floor yet, a single carver clamp is providing a lot of structural integrity, holding the rear beam to the barn frame, but progress nonetheless. Running out of m16 washers stopped play for the time being.

 

[f121]

These places were tolerant of people pulling things out of their skips

It’s lucky I didn’t know that was a thing!

 

[VolksWomble]

It’s lucky I didn’t know that was a thing!

sometimes I wish I didn’t… having just moved, there’s an awful lot of stuff I’ve acquired that way! However,I haven’t found an equivalent in the new place, so don’t know where to go for odd bits of metal stock, fasteners, and industrial fittings… and when I do I am shocked by the price!

 

[VolksWomble]

More barn siding progress today, with some help from my dad.

got the front corner all sorted on the south side



and made a start on the overlap cladding on the north side. Progress was slow to start with, while we figured out a system, but then got a bit further this afternoon.



This method is an awful lot slower than the metal cladding we did on the other side. By the end of the day we had got one and a half bays done… this is going to take a while.



for those that can’t see the difference, we are effectively panelling over the gaps in the existing boards with more boards…

 

[dutchgray]

FYI those cover boards should be nailed through the gaps between the back boards (which really should have a bigger gap between them). When you nail through both layers it can lead to the boards splitting due to natural movement of the wood as the moisture content changes throughout the year and ideally should only have a single nail per purlin (like the back boards have).
With a narrow gap like that a cover batten is usually preferred or a 3" wide board.

 

[VolksWomble]

We’re using 4” boards, and still having difficulty covering the gap and keeping them vaguely vertical. The existing boards are double screwed into the bearers (girts?) at the top and about 2/3s down, and have moved a bit in the 30 or so years they have been up - no signs of splitting, but plenty of movement. we have pinned them at the bottom into the new wall caps, and have screwed the new boards in a similar fashion. I don’t doubt that it’s not ideal, but its working for now so we’ll see what happens.

out of curiosity, doesn’t a single nail through the middle encourage cupping on these sorts of board widths?

 

[f121]

If the boards are going to cup, any number of nails won’t stop them. The trick is putting the boards on the right way round so they clamp against the building when they cup, rather than cupping out

 

[dutchgray]

It's the nailing through both boards with the same nail (or screw) that causes the splitting issue mainly.

 

[VolksWomble]

Well, rightly attached or wrongly, we got to the half way mark today, and it looks quite smart so far. Consistently battling with the fact that whoever put up the first set of boards didnt seem to own a spirit level or a tape measure….



whilst this is very much achieving the goal of keeping the weather out, it is also blocking a lot of light out. I will take a picture from the inside to demonstrate, but I don’t think it’s going to be an issue, and helps me prioritise the layout internally.

 

[jollygreengiant]

Great progress so far!

Do you still have more metal panels to put up? If so and you're concerned about light, and lot of people will install clear corrugated panels in the top 2' of wall and then the steel panels below that. It let's a lot of natural light in.

 

[VolksWomble]

@jollygreengiant thanks, appreciate your dropping in.

i have finished panels on the south side - where the new green steel panels are. The north side is staying timber. I like the idea of the top section in clear, and as you say, it’s very effective, but adding the additional rails in to do so would have been a lot more work! One of the (several) reasons we didn’t go with steel on the north side was the need for more rails to bolt it to!

 

[VolksWomble]

Couple of small updates…

got the rest of the floor joists in for the mezzanine. Need to convince the forklift to put the flooring up there next…



this afternoon was planned to do some grass cutting and a bit more barn building, but some idle FBM scrolling over lunch rather diverted that. I looked at a listing for “2 lathe machines” showing a type of Harrison lathe I’d not seen before and couldn’t really afford to buy, but I can look at the pictures, right? Anyway, it turns out the second ”lathe machine” was actually a Thiel 158 vertical milling machine - the same variety of mill that I already had, and have been looking for a new vertical head for mine for the last decade or so x these are not common machines, and in good condition fetch serious money.

suffice to say, i went the hour or so up the road for a look, and it wasn’t in great condition, and we agreed a price that worked, and was far below the cost of replacing the bearing in my other machine, so it followed me home…




having got over my initial pleasure at having found a decent head, when I look at the machine in better light, despite the damage from some neglect and poor handling, it’s actually far less worm than my other machine, and is rather newer… now I just need to decide how to get the best machine I can from the two…

… I’ll add it to the list of projects…

and I still need to cut the grass

 

[Dixie_Flatline]

Rather than messing around with the leaky forklift have you considered swapping the bucket off the Kubota for some forks? Looked like it already had a counterweight on the rear. I always hated using forklifts when you had to transition between pavement and gravel or dirt, managed to get stuck a time or two in the snow! Guess the only real problem is if you need more capacity than the tractor can provide.

 

[VolksWomble]

Rather than messing around with the leaky forklift have you considered swapping the bucket off the Kubota for some forks? Looked like it already had a counterweight on the rear. I always hated using forklifts when you had to transition between pavement and gravel or dirt, managed to get stuck a time or two in the snow! Guess the only real problem is if you need more capacity than the tractor can provide.

I have very much considered pallet forks for the loader on the Iseki, less so on the Kubota. The limiting factor being the lifting capacity of the loaders on the tractors isn't as much as the forklift, and the height is not great either - especially when trying to deal with tall things like milling machines. The forklift also the advantage of being far more compact when in use within the barn.

Recently I have wondered whether the ebay folks which bolt onto the bucket on a loader were worth a look? anyone had any experience.

Otherwise, I think the answer is horses for courses - Outside the barn the front loader solution definitely wins, but internally, where there is a nice flat concrete floor, I think the forklift is a better option.

 

[Dixie_Flatline]

I have very much considered pallet forks for the loader on the Iseki, less so on the Kubota. The limiting factor being the lifting capacity of the loaders on the tractors isn't as much as the forklift, and the height is not great either - especially when trying to deal with tall things like milling machines. The forklift also the advantage of being far more compact when in use within the barn.

Recently I have wondered whether the ebay folks which bolt onto the bucket on a loader were worth a look? anyone had any experience.

Otherwise, I think the answer is horses for courses - Outside the barn the front loader solution definitely wins, but internally, where there is a nice flat concrete floor, I think the forklift is a better option.

Forklift will always be king in tight spaces! The bolt on forks I would be afraid of ruining my bucket since they are putting a lot of pressure on narrow places instead of distributed across the bucket. I've only used a regular bucket, forks, and a hay spear with our loader.

How did your Land Rover like towing a tractor home? Here in the States you almost never see anyone towing anything with one, viewed more as luxury than actual utility I guess. I had an 88 Range Rover County for several years and used it to move a shed on runners across a back garden at my sister's house. Impressed me that it did so effortlessly, I don't think I even spun a tire. I also pulled a small utility trailer often, but never tried any large loads, so I was surprised to see you hauling a tractor!

 

[roger440]

i have also been adding structure to the mezzanine floor…







it’s not bolted down to the floor yet, a single carver clamp is providing a lot of structural integrity, holding the rear beam to the barn frame, but progress nonetheless. Running out of m16 washers stopped play for the time being.

This is my world right now!

Mine never had any washers.

Are you putting in any diagonal bracing, or did it come with it already? Mine didnt, but, really, i feel it should.

 

[VolksWomble]

I had similar concerns over bending the bucket with bolt on forks - hence my still considering them. Building a pallet fork setup for the loader on the Iseki is on the projects list at some point tho.

Ref towing with Land Rovers - thats what I bought the new Defender for. I've had my own Land Rovers since I was 16 - Series/Leaf sprung, Range Rover Classic, Discoverys, Defenders and more modern ones like Freelanders, Range Rover Sports and now the new Defenders. I have towed with all of them. In the UK the maximum towed weight for a car is 3.5t (or 4.5t with a separate brake controller - that's very rare and you also start to get into driving license restrictions then too). Land Rovers and Range Rovers are ne of the few cars to be rated to tow the full 3.5t so get used for that a lot here.

Your 88 Range Rover is/was an incredibly capable vehicle, far more than just a luxury car. I've done some really stupid tuff with them

 

[VolksWomble]

This is my world right now!

Mine never had any washers.

Are you putting in any diagonal bracing, or did it come with it already? Mine didnt, but, really, i feel it should.

Interesting - Mine didn't have washers, but there seemed to be witness marks for them, so I added them. A lot of the more structural stuff I see doesn't have a washer - the barn has none... but I've always thought it better with them.

No diagonal bracing included, but again, something I have thought about a lot recently. Whilst I was assembling it, it was not at all stable, as you would expect - I clamped one upright to the barn and then worked from there. Having now bolted it worn to the floor with concrete anchors, it is not at all wobbly, but does still vibrate a little. I am considering bracing it off the bar structure properly- still undecided.

Looking forward to your pictures

 

[Dixie_Flatline]

Your 88 Range Rover is/was an incredibly capable vehicle, far more than just a luxury car. I've done some really stupid tuff with them

It was a love/hate affair during my ownership! Some days everything worked as it should, and other days I questioned my sanity trying to keep it alive. Same could be said for any older vehicle, I just had the added issue of having to source parts from the UK because I refused to pay dealership prices. For example, even paying shipping it was still cheaper to get replacement exhaust manifolds from a guy in the UK than the dealer 3 hours away. Still, it took me on many adventures, and sometimes I wish I kept it.

 

[roger440]

Interesting - Mine didn't have washers, but there seemed to be witness marks for them, so I added them. A lot of the more structural stuff I see doesn't have a washer - the barn has none... but I've always thought it better with them.

No diagonal bracing included, but again, something I have thought about a lot recently. Whilst I was assembling it, it was not at all stable, as you would expect - I clamped one upright to the barn and then worked from there. Having now bolted it worn to the floor with concrete anchors, it is not at all wobbly, but does still vibrate a little. I am considering bracing it off the bar structure properly- still undecided.

Looking forward to your pictures

Looking at any "modern" installation, they all have a diagonal brace somewhere in both planes. Plus a bracing bar between the pressed steel joists.

Im welding one in on the long side, but across is an issue as it will impede the working area. Ive planted one post next to the building upright, so might tie it into that instead.

Must update my thread with some pics.

 

[VolksWomble]

Looking at any "modern" installation, they all have a diagonal brace somewhere in both planes. Plus a bracing bar between the pressed steel joists.

Im welding one in on the long side, but across is an issue as it will impede the working area. Ive planted one post next to the building upright, so might tie it into that instead.

Must update my thread with some pics.

likewise, the opening that needs the cross bracing is also the opening I want to use to get vehicles in and out… I’m going to build studwork walls into the frame to give me two enclosed rooms, so I may put some bracing into the timber structure.

 

[VolksWomble]

@Dixie_Flatline a bit of a photo dump of heavy things hung on the back of my Land rovers of recent years…











and whilst I can’t find any pictures of it on a trailer, we towed this truck to competitions all over the country for a couple of years

 

[f121]

@Dixie_Flatline a bit of a photo dump of heavy things hung on the back of my Land rovers of recent years…











and whilst I can’t find any pictures of it on a trailer, we towed this truck to competitions all over the country for a couple of years

Ahh tdv8 sport, best tow vehicle I’ve used. Biggest problem is forgetting the trailer is on there