Drainage Debacle

[topcok88]

Just for reference on the first hole (the only leaker I have had yet). I mixed up the hydraulic water stop to the consistency of clay (I almost think I was on the edge of too dry) but it applied well, went INTO the small hole/divot, and I left the patch be proud of the surface by about 1/4". You can see the progression of color change from immediately following application, a few hours later, and almost 24 hours later.
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Thanks for checking in and I will be back with more updates when grading and additional holes are filled!

 

[theoldwizard1]

So I called around and got quotes on different solutions to fix this problem. The first company to show up provides the "solution" from inside. They wanted to cut the base of all my perimeter walls (160 feet), install a trough, install 2 sealed sump pits, and cover all the walls with a membrane that would direct the water to the base of the wall into the trough... I was expecting and asked about urethane injection into the snap tie holes but they insisted "this is the only option". And then they told me the price, $14,979.00.

You might call it "laughable" but in many places there is no option to re-grade.

This DOES WORK.

 

[topcok88]

You might call it "laughable" but in many places there is no option to re-grade.

This DOES WORK.

I agree 100% with you, and I happen to live an area of Virginia where this if quite often the case. But I assure you once you see the addional earth moving ($1,500) and concrete driveway and wrap around the entire side of the house you will understand. They simply tried to sell a system that is way to large for ONE snap tie that only leaks on major rain storms with less than a half gallon of water intrusion (estimate based on puddle size).

 

[Bondo]

Then came a construction/excavation/concrete guy who has really helped me out. He has seen it before and said with a better grading job I can simply use hydraulic water stop cement and will be fine. So he is going to do some major earth moving and grading after the first of the year and will be documented going forward on this thread.

Ayuh,.... Sounds like ya found the right guy,....
Good Luck, I can't wait to see the pictures, before, 'n after,....

Yer doin' a 'ell of a job fixin' this situation,....

Don't agree with the hate shown for the black corragated pipe though,...
We've lain miles of it in industrial/ commercial applications with Great results, long term too,...

For what yer doin' inside, I'd be usin' bagged hyd. grout, 'n spreadin' it with a knife/ trowel,....
Striking it off smooth, insteada proud,....

The bagged hyd. grout don't set-up so darn quick as the water-stop in a bucket stuff,...
More workin' time, just mix it stiff,...

 

[topcok88]

Ayuh,.... Sounds like ya found the right guy,....
Good Luck, I can't wait to see the pictures, before, 'n after,....

Yer doin' a 'ell of a job fixin' this situation,....

Don't agree with the hate shown for the black corragated pipe though,...
We've lain miles of it in industrial/ commercial applications with Great results, long term too,...

For what yer doin' inside, I'd be usin' bagged hyd. grout, 'n spreadin' it with a knife/ trowel,....
Striking it off smooth, insteada proud,....

The bagged hyd. grout don't set-up so darn quick as the water-stop in a bucket stuff,...
More workin' time, just mix it stiff,...

I am impressed with this new company. His family has a large construction company for the better part of three generations and has actually moved on from residential to major commercial projects. His company now develops a lot of industrial parks, builds artificial ponds for run off, and major commercial projects such as large concrete pours. The majority of his equipment is WAY too large for my house project but he will be bring in tracked equipment and some rubber tired stuff to do some MAJOR dirt moving. Essentially we will be grading the one area of my property that is sloping toward my house and moving all the dirt to a steep hill so I can drive my mower up and down it. He will also be re-grading the drive, digging out some existing stone, adding new base, and compacting. Following this the plan is to pour a driveway approximately 24'x76', wrap around the side of the garage 12'x24', and go around the back of the garage and tie into an existing slab 12'x30'. I don't think he would normally mess with a project as small as mine but a friend from work called in a favor from him for me after he heard about this mess. The black pipe probably does great for most but it left a sore spot for me so I refuse to use it going forward. And you are right, this hydraulic water stop cement is rough to work with so fast, but I am following the instructions of people who have a lot more experience than I. In fact this guy said all of his foundation pours they hydraulic cement the exterior of the form tie holes prior to one layer of sealant, followed by black board, and a finish layer of sealant to protect against abrasion and seal it up well. They then follow up with doing all the inside form tie locations, tape a line 4" away from the foundation wall on the floor, and DryLok the entire perimeter floor to ceiling. Hopefully I will accurately document all of this information so others on the forum won't have to look around too much for the right information.

Thanks for the replies all.

 

[Northislander]

As someone who lives in a very wet part of the North American continent. In 2004 i started the build of a home on Vancouver Island. Ground conditions were very sandy at the build location which was on the top of, the best way to explain is a knob about 45' above the rest of the very wet property "think swampy" house has a 9' basement below grade on three and a half sides except at the entry door which has a retaining wall on each side of door. I have no perimeter drains, rainwater leaders or gutters and down spouts. and i have no moisture problems in basement.
We are in a high snow load area so i didn't want gutters ripped off by snow sliding off the steel roof so no gutters. So how do I deal with water running off the roof splashing back on the side of the house when it hits the ground. The solution was I sloped very steeply away from the house, installed a dry creek about 5' away lined with pond liner then moss and river rock. and the creek gently grades its way around the house and then away. Even in torrential down pours the side of the house is completely dry and even with no perimeter drains the basement is perfectly dry. I know not everyone has land conditions like this where you can slope away from your house but i just wanted to point out that with the proper landscaping the trick is to get the ground water away from the house and grading is as effective as piping. And as a plumber i have a lot of friends in the building trades that can't believe that i have no perimeter drains or rainwater leaders. And now 12 years later still dry as a bone and i drink beer while the neighbors are cleaning gutters or digging up their yards to correct collapsed big o "no offense intended to OP"
Kevin

 

[ssffnomad]

You have done a lot of work to find issues, fix and show us. I in a previous life I did Excavation work for 19 years. I will say a committed non lazy guy will go out of his way to properly make any H2O, Sewer , Drain & Elec on site before backfill / grading. Most do not

 

[topcok88]

So just to go over the process I am choosing to do on the interior of my foundation to mitigate this issue. I start by gathering all my supplies and safety gear. I do not recommend doing this without a dust-buddie hooked up to a shop vac. I can grind with no dust going anywhere except into my vac.
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Also have an assorted set of chisels to profile the area to be covered if need be, brushes, dust mask, safety glasses, a sponge, a spray bottle with water, disposable gloves, and a mixing bowl.
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All I chose to do was grind the high spots to provide a good base for the hydraulic waterstop cement to bond to AROUND your divot/hole. Remember the primary force holding in the cement is the divot you profile.
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Us your shopvac to such all the dust out of the divot, use a stiff bristle brush to dislodge any loose material, and then wet the area with a spray bottle or sponge. This helps keep the cement from sucking the moisture out of the hydraulic waterstop/cement patch and promote adherence to the base material.
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Mix up your waterstop to the consistency of peanut butter or clay and spread it over your divots/holes being sure to press it in as much as possible. I used my hands and pushed, smeared, and tamped. I mixed up my cement in a red solo cup and only did 8 tie rod holes per mix. You have to be sure you can mix, apply, and be done completely in 3 minutes max so hurry up!
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Just to show you how well it will "stick" this is hydraulic patch I ground off a little after 24 hours of set time. Did excellent and I am grinding all of my patches due to the fact I am going to use Drylok on the interior walls prior to finishing my basement.
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And here are the 8 I just did tonight in about 30 minutes (grinding to patching). I had to move a heavy cabinet out of the way and ran out of time yesterday.
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I will update this thread as time goes on. I still have to do 2 coats of Drylok and I am planning on leaving this area unfinished for a few months of hard rains to ensure the water intrusion has stopped prior to finishing. The rest of the basement will get the same treatment! Thanks for checking in!

 

[topcok88]

So I will show you how I ended up finishing up the space for now.
I chiseled out and fixed a minor crack in the corner and packed it with hydraulic cement.
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I also sealed/packed the area at the base of the wall leaving a decent size "half round" if you will.
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I then ground every square inch of the walls with a 4" angle grinder and then used a shop vac on every square inch of wall to get as much loose contaminate out as possible.
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I then taped a line about four inches out at the base of the wall for the Drylok line.
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And what you see here is the result of two coats of Drylok, or 5 gallons for 240 square feet. We rolled both coats using a 3/4" foam roller and back brushed using a thick heavy stain brush to really force the Drylok in any voids. The finished turned out excellent and hasn't leaked at all for the past couple storms here over Christmas!
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I will keep the thread updated as we move forward with more excavation, concrete work, and interior framing and flash/batt the walls for interior finishing!

Thanks everyone!

 

[bimmer1980]

looks good!

One recommendation I have is that you take a look at "InSoFast.com" This is an insulation product that simply glues to the wall and has reinforcing in it for fastening drywall.

I had my sister do it in her basement and it worked out really well. I plan to use it in my basement when I get to that project....

Note--I'm not in any way associated with this company, but I have seen their ad in Fine HomeBuilding numerous times and I've done some browsing on their website....

 

[topcok88]

=bimmer1980;6207219]looks good!

One recommendation I have is that you take a look at "InSoFast.com" This is an insulation product that simply glues to the wall and has reinforcing in it for fastening drywall.

I had my sister do it in her basement and it worked out really well. I plan to use it in my basement when I get to that project....

Note--I'm not in any way associated with this company, but I have seen their ad in Fine HomeBuilding numerous times and I've done some browsing on their website....

Ironic you say that. Coincidently, the company who proposed the $15k fix does the Insofast installs. Looks like a quality product but doing the work myself I think I can do conventional framing and flash closed cell/batt cheaper. But I have contemplated it! Thanks for the positive recommendation though.

 

[rburke65]

The dry lock product worked well for me years ago and I was very satisfied with it. I just had and excavator friend assess my grain age-water problem trying to control some water issues. We set a 2'x2'x2' concrete catch basin and 220' of 6" SRD ....green stuff....and its orking well. I didn't wantto spend $2000 for this but the water is going to where I want it to go and the yard if quickly movable after a good rain. You did a nice job.

 

[topcok88]

Thank you! It has been a lot of work but very worth it! And I will continue this thread on with the rest of the excavation, concrete drive, and such. I only have about 130' linear feet and I'm thinking 35 gallons of Drylok to go before my basement is ready for "finishing" haha.

 

[BombShelter]

Great write-up and photos topcok88, your issue is something I see on a regular basis and maybe I can help out a little. The contributors are right about 4” corrugated pipe being 100% junk, I’ve seen people put in black piping similar to your old system for thousands of dollars and have it fail within 1-3 years. For a little more PVC pipe is a much better alternative, just make sure it is smooth bore and maybe a cleanout every so often if you have more than 20-30’ runs. You get about a gallon and a quarter for every two square feet of roof by an inch of water, looking at your roof, that could be a couple hundred gallons on each corner for a decent rain storm, any blockage or crushing of the corrugated pipe will make it drain next to your foundation and this seems to normal for this product.

I’m surprised your home doesn’t already have an interior drain-tile system (with sump pump); most homes built after 1980 have them although this varies by state. Even if you did have one it wouldn’t help in this situation, your leak is up on the wall and a drain-tile system is under the floor so you would need to put in plastic walls to contain the water and drain it down into the underfloor piping, sometimes referred to as a beaver dam. These get stinky and nasty over time and flowing moisture behind your new plastic walls can have other ill-effects.

Filling in the holes and using Dry-Lock is good but any waterproofing on the inside is really tough, there’s just a ton of pressure, even on the small leaks, that will eventually push through the hydraulic cement and Dry-lock. Another product that works well for inside walls is Thoroseal, it’s kind of a cement paint that might be used under the Dry-Lock, or by itself, but all of these product will struggle over the long term with continuous water pressure.

If you can find a local bentonite injector, I’d look into that, they can do corners and seal that area from the outside by filling the voids with bentonite. Or if you’re feeling like you have some energy, take a post hole digger and find the tie-rod from the outside, it looks like you have a gravel driveway and the leak is 3’-5’ down. Patch it from the outside with hydraulic cement and partially back-fill the hole with wet bentonite and then top with dirt and gravel. Don’t dig a trench unless you are familiar with OSHA’s Rules for trenches, just look up trench cave-ins, most guys are fixing issues like yours.

Hope this helps!

 

[topcok88]

Thanks BombShelter, the plan is to grade and pave the driveway. This will all but fix the issue in my opinion.

 

[gnpenning]

The InSoFast panels are basically ICF after the fact without the outside insulation.

You did the first thing that should be done, get the water away from the home.

Hope to see walls dry after the next heavy rains.

 

[topcok88]

The InSoFast panels are basically ICF after the fact without the outside insulation.

You did the first thing that should be done, get the water away from the home.

Hope to see walls dry after the next heavy rains.

Thanks. Yea, after talking with a local insulating company and looking at options I think framing off the wall about an inch, flashing the wall with sprayable closed cell, and following up with batts will provide a good "warm feel". And I agree that all water problem should be fixed from the outside.