Drainage help

[Stinger]

I've got a drainage issue around my shop and I'm not sure what my best option is for fixing it. I've looked at french drains, trough drains, etc. but can't decide what's the best option that doesn't involve digging 2ft deep trenches.

In the pics you can see how water puddles a couple inches deep on the 60ft long East side of my shop. To the front (South) side of my shop, there is a gravel driveway that's much higher than the water level so I don't really want to try to dig through that to drain to the South. So that means I have to go around the back (North) side of the shop and then drain into the yard to the West. There is #57 gravel behind the shop (North side) which makes for difficult digging by hand.

I dug a trench to see how well it would drain and what I found is that I only need about 4-6" of depth to drain everything. The problem is figuring how to make this trench permanent while still allowing me to drive over it occasionally. I don't really want to go as deep as a normal french drain as then I'd need to extend the trench another 100 ft to get enough elevation drop in the yard to drain into it. As-is, this current trench is already about 75ft long.

I'm going to try diverting the downspout that's on the SE corner (where I'm standing in the first pic) and let it drain onto the concrete in front of the shop to lessen how much water is entering the flooded East side.

I'm also trying to decide if I should let the East side that puddles just gravity drain to the rear before entering the trench, or if I should add a trench here as well (obviously this partially depends on what solution I decide on for the trench at the rear).

Pic description:
1st pic is looking at the East side of the shop, North (rear) of the shop is at the top of the pic.
2nd pic is the East side of the shop when standing at the rear facing South.
3rd pic is standing near the SE corner of the shop looking West around the rear of the shop.
4th pic is the same rear trench but looking SE.
5th pic is where it goes under my fence that comes off the SW corner of the shop and then entering the yard and draining West (bottom of pic).

If you want more pics, aerial view, etc. to clarify what I'm working with, let me know.

Any creative ideas for what would work best that doesn't involve digging 18-24" deep? Thanks.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

I'd just grade in a swale 6" deep x as wide as possible.

 

[ycgoat]

Bury pipes and connect to down spouts to cary the displaced building water away. Then add or improve the the ditch / swale. I have also added drain boxes in the low areas and buried the pipe graded away from the house, or french drains graded away from the house. French drains work well but slower than buried pipe. Here I had to put in 2 french drains to mitigate "imperviouse land cover" to put the water back in ground and reduce surface run off into the Chesapeake Bay.

 

[FredWanaker]

you have two choices, you either create a way the water can drain by gravity downhill to someplace you want it to go thru a swale, ditch, or underground pipe, or you dig a dry well, let the water go into it, and then pump it where you want it to go. There really aren't other ways. The land should have been graded for drainage before the shop was built but it is too late for that. I had the same problem here, rented a ditch witch and made a trench then laid smoothwall pipe in it with a drain coming to the surface every 15' - 20' or so in case I ever needed to flush roots or debris out. If you garden a lot, and don't have constant heavy rains, maybe a pair of rain barrels might catch some you can use later in the garden or lawn in the dry season.

 

[Stinger]

I'd just grade in a swale 6" deep x as wide as possible.

Thanks. I considered this but the two main issues are that I don't have any equipment to assist in this rather large job and renting will drive the cost up considerably, and the other concern is that it will fill in over time as there is quite a bit of mud/silt that moves around in these areas when it rains. It may end up being the best plan though.

 

[Stinger]

you have two choices, you either create a way the water can drain by gravity downhill to someplace you want it to go thru a swale, ditch, or underground pipe, or you dig a dry well, let the water go into it, and then pump it where you want it to go. There really aren't other ways. The land should have been graded for drainage before the shop was built but it is too late for that. I had the same problem here, rented a ditch witch and made a trench then laid smoothwall pipe in it with a drain coming to the surface every 15' - 20' or so in case I ever needed to flush roots or debris out. If you garden a lot, and don't have constant heavy rains, maybe a pair of rain barrels might catch some you can use later in the garden or lawn in the dry season.

Yes, the land certainly wasn't graded correctly. I bought it this way though and I'm trying to fix it. It's possible they originally had it graded to drain to the South/front of the shop and then later added the gravel driveway without putting a drain pipe under it and that caused the problem. I don't know for sure though. It seems like this whole area only has about 2" of grade over 115ft or so which isn't enough regardless of whether it had somewhere to go eventually or not. There is a hill that grades toward my shop at the property line to the East (30ft from where it puddles) and also a smaller hill that grades towards the rear which doesn't help, though I think the downspouts dumping to this area is the primary source of the water. My main concern with the smooth wall pipe is whether I'd damage the sch 40 PVC by driving on it when it's so shallow.

Bury pipes and connect to down spouts to cary the displaced building water away. Then add or improve the the ditch / swale. I have also added drain boxes in the low areas and buried the pipe graded away from the house, or french drains graded away from the house. French drains work well but slower than buried pipe. Here I had to put in 2 french drains to mitigate "imperviouse land cover" to put the water back in ground and reduce surface run off into the Chesapeake Bay.

Thanks. This was my initial plan when I bought the property. I figured either directly connecting to the downspouts or using the grated boxes under the downspouts to allow whatever water collects on the ground to also drain through the underground pipes. My concern is whether I'll end up damaging the pipe (schedule 40 PVC) by driving on it either in the dirt on the East side or in the gravel in front of the door on the rear/North side) because of how shallow the trench needs to be. I just don't know how much weight a 3" sch 40 PVC pipe can hold when driven over occasionally.

 

[FredWanaker]

where there is a will there is a way.

 

[Bent Handle]

schedule 40 is pretty brittle from outside pressure. Schedule 35 drain pipe is what you want, its thinner, but gives with outside pressure instead of cracking. The drainage fittings are usually sized for drain pipe not schedule 40.

 

[Stinger]

schedule 40 is pretty brittle from outside pressure. Schedule 35 drain pipe is what you want, its thinner, but gives with outside pressure instead of cracking. The drainage fittings are usually sized for drain pipe not schedule 40.

Good info, thanks!

 

[danfromsyr]

Thanks. I considered this but the two main issues are that I don't have any equipment to assist in this rather large job and renting will drive the cost up considerably, and the other concern is that it will fill in over time as there is quite a bit of mud/silt that moves around in these areas when it rains. It may end up being the best plan though.

cheap
effective
easy

you only get to pick 1


might want to go with effective the 1st time..
it's never easy taking the cheap route and doing it twice or thrice

 

[mikedodge]

Build up the ground around the building so it's at least level or slightly raised and put an extension on that down spout. The water will leave on its own after that

 

[FredWanaker]

I think I would cut a gradual swale across the driveway several inches deeper than needed, maybe 3' to 4' wide and put gravel back but it would be low enough for water to drain thru it. The width would be enough to not bottom the cars, and water could just drain thru the center of it. Think like when you are driving thru an intersection and there is a lower area graded in for water to drain across the intersection. You could even pour it in concrete if you want it to be less maintenance.

also this thread addresses the question https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/driveway-culvert.149204/

 

[SALIV8]

Id first get downspout extensions