Drainage plans

[FredWanaker]

You told us that they told you that you could not drain to the side road but rather you had to have a drainage plan to drain to the main highway in front of your house. What part of that did you not mean? Maybe it was in one of the other threads started on this same project.

 

[yeldogt]

A SWPPP isn't required for my lot. Just a grading/drainage plan. Only if the project is an acre. I don't think a 3000 square foot building is anywhere near an acre.

The acre is typically the impervious .... not the project size. That would be in SF. There are trigger points for projects. The 5000sf.

Everything is dropping as well ...

 

[yeldogt]

in his case it is the inspector who told him to drain the water to the front of his property where the road is. Personally I would have been happy with just building the barn/garage.

The inspector may have indicated that his lot is able to divert water to the road .. that's great as it sounds like it would eliminate any possible stormwater management.

The OP does not understand what a drainage plan looks like. He needs to ask .... he also needs to find out who reviews the "Plan". I have never had one reviewed by the town "inspector" ... they may sign off on it someplace -- but, they are typically engineering. The town engineer reviews and signs off.

 

[jmdirk]

The inspector may have indicated that his lot is able to divert water to the road .. that's great as it sounds like it would eliminate any possible stormwater management.

The OP does not understand what a drainage plan looks like. He needs to ask .... he also needs to find out who reviews the "Plan". I have never had one reviewed by the town "inspector" ... they may sign off on it someplace -- but, they are typically engineering. The town engineer reviews and signs off.

Saying that he needs to drain all water from his property 400 ft to the main road seems impractical. Much of that water shed by that 3000 sq ft structure is likely to percolate into the soil long before it can travel 400 ft to the road.

The drainage plan is simply a reassurance to the city/country engineers that the addition of non-permeable surface isn't going to add any negative impact with regards to surface and storm water. If the planned location for the building is right on the minimum set back from adjacent properties, they could make you do some crazy drainage system, or they could just suggest moving the planned location - if feasible of course. But you clearly understand that.

As for what it costs, the plan itself is likely $1000-2000. What it would cost to implement the plan would will be entirely dependent on what the result of the plan is. OP seems to want to make sure he's got all his duck in a row before pulling the trigger on the building. He's doing the smart thing and doing his due diligence. But at a certain point, you do have to start spending money in order to eliminate some of those unknowns. Call a few civil engineering and surveying outfits to find out what a drainage plan costs. Only then will you know if any additional site work for drainage and water management is going to add any significant cost to the project.

This was my drainage plan. Literally they came out marked the topology of the existing area (reference heights in light grey) and then marked what the new grade levels needed to be in black. You can see very few changes were required. Need to raise the grade in the back a few inches, but pretty much everything else stayed the same.

 

[yeldogt]

JM -- Devil in the details. I would need more than that in my areas of building .... this is what the OP needs to find out.

For years the rules were designed to save homeowners added expense and troubles -- especially when doing normal stuff on small lots. But -- the window to jump through is getting smaller and smaller. We did have a change from 1k to 2k of disturbance on small lots ..many times there is no room on the lots and it's impossible to not hit 1k ... I think that was the only positive change.

My recent permit was 5 pages and cost me 10k .. plus the more detailed survey I needed. The OP is doing 3000sf .. so he needs to find out what he needs.

 

[jmdirk]

JM -- Devil in the details. I would need more than that in my areas of building .... this is what the OP needs to find out.

For years the rules were designed to save homeowners added expense and troubles -- especially when doing normal stuff on small lots. But -- the window to jump through is getting smaller and smaller. We did have a change from 1k to 2k of disturbance on small lots ..many times there is no room on the lots and it's impossible to not hit 1k ... I think that was the only positive change.

My recent permit was 5 pages and cost me 10k .. plus the more detailed survey I needed. The OP is doing 3000sf .. so he needs to find out what he needs.

Hence my suggestion to start talking with professionals who are familiar with his jurisdiction that can actually do the drainage plan. They'll have a better idea of what the permits office wants to see. I highly doubt that the country wants him to completely change the topology of his property unless there are existing drainage issues on that site.

 

[yeldogt]

Hence my suggestion to start talking with professionals who are familiar with his jurisdiction that can actually do the drainage plan. They'll have a better idea of what the permits office wants to see. I highly doubt that the country wants him to completely change the topology of his property unless there are existing drainage issues on that site.

OH -- I agree. It is what it is and he has to do what they want .....

This is like many here that are doing a project that is going to require a signed/ stamped drawing. If you are going to need a professional .... find out early and get one. They answer all your questions -- or most of them. Why spend time running around when you have to hire a pro anyway.

It's the same with an architect. Too many times people bring them in after they have done planning -- when they should have called them first. Most times they have good ideas and your off in another direction ... in the end they save you money.

Same with the OP. If he needs a pro .... you get one out there .. see what they say. Often they have a better idea ...

Most homeowner driven projects .... look like that way.

 

[FredWanaker]

there are three threads on this. Unless someone follows all three threads they will miss part of the story.

 

[racecougar]

there are three threads on this. Unless someone follows all three threads they will miss part of the story.

That is just like every other topic started by the OP. Recall the garage door fiasco?

 

[csp]

there are three threads on this. Unless someone follows all three threads they will miss part of the story.

Even if they follow all three there will be missing parts of the story.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I talked to my engineer friend and he got the city inspector on the phone and he said we would need to hold a meeting with the board of adjusters and tell them what we want to do with the ditch and get their okay to drain the water into that road. So we will submit a drainage plan and have a meeting and then if they approve that I'll order the building. The drainage plan is the main thing. If they approve that I pretty much have a green light to build the building. All that entails is having the dirt guy extend the existing ditch with his skid steer 200ft or so and he said they probably wouldn't even charge for that.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

If they don't like that then we would put a swale alongside the property line 400ft down to the road. We'd have to put a culvert under the existing driveway where the existing building is. Hopefully we can just add onto the existing ditch and not put a swale next to the existing ditch because that would look retarded.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I wonder why he didn't just tell me that a long time ago.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

So my engineer had his guy come out today to look at the lot and he's going to draw up a drainage plan and we will submit everything else to get a permit approval then I'll order the building.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Well I got my engineer arguing with the city right now about the drainage plan. I turned in a plan and they suddenly had amnesia about the whole conversation we had a few weeks ago. My engineer is just going to handle the whole process from here on out since they seem to care when Joe blow walks into the office. So as soon as they approve that I'll order the building

 

[Dig Doug]

In Ca they want you to NOW filter the storm water before it leaves your site / lot.


vegatative bio swales, storm water catch basins w/ filter cloth and special sand mixs, they also want you to slow the run off so it doesn’t flood down stream. Another - Big big business is vacuuming ( vac truck ) and cleaning out storm drain lines, containing /removing silt / dirt in the flow lines of storm water pipes.

porous concrete paving is also popular right now! Water runs thru special concrete that is placed on a bed of rock and filter cloth then water runs into a French drain system ….

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I'm surprised they're worried about where the water goes with all the wildfires every year.

 

[racecougar]

I'm surprised they're worried about where the water goes with all the wildfires every year.

Read that statement and give it some thought.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Read that statement and give it some thought.

They must want you to drain the water towards the building then.

 

[racecougar]

Nope. That's not it.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Nope. That's not it.

I don't really care honestly.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Grading plan // disturbance plan // stormwater management plan --- these are all parts of permits that are often required to build on a lot. That's why I said in another post that you need to find out what is needed and you may want to check on the septic and well. Even if you don't ever instal it -- once they are permited the land value increases. Put the building in a spot where it's in the way of the potential well or septic -- now a future buyer has to remove the building. So the building is not a plus -- it's a negative.

In many areas you can't transport water to the street -- you have to manage it on the lot.

That's why you need to go back and ask to see what he is talking about --- he may show you someones plan.

A permit is only good for 6 months. After that it has to be renewed.

 

[yeldogt]

A permit is only good for 6 months. After that it has to be renewed.

I'm sure there are many rules regarding time. Some say you have to start within a given time .... around me buildings are 5 years and can be extended. Typically the gradings don't really expire .... they are more lot planned ...like a septic. We have lots never built on with full permits .. 10 years is typical as it can take that long for.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I'm sure there are many rules regarding time. Some say you have to start within a given time .... around me buildings are 5 years and can be extended. Typically the gradings don't really expire .... they are more lot planned ...like a septic. We have lots never built on with full permits .. 10 years is typical as it can take that long for.

Oh I didn't know it varied depending on what it was.

 

[yeldogt]

Oh I didn't know it varied depending on what it was.

You have to ask .... I had a strange one where a project was delayed and the authority told me that I had to refile. You never open a permit up after it has been approved -- that's opens you up to all kinds of problems (current code being one). Anyway --- the law said I had to start on the project in a given time .... not finish in a given time. Authority was wrong --- still took a attorney and a few hours at $500+ hr to get it straight.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

So I looked on the website and brought it to their attention that my building doesn't need a drainage plan. It's not big enough.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

It sure takes long time to build one of these things.

 

[egdede]

Grading a 2 acre lot?

My lot has way too much standing water. It's more rural living where I'm at and I'm curious if that's just how it is in this type of area. Everything is flat no hills in sight. Other than grading away from the house and shop everything else just stays pretty much soaked in the winter time if we...

www.garagejournal.com

To complete the circle. I wish i knew how to link directly to post 3 in that thread : )

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Grading a 2 acre lot?

My lot has way too much standing water. It's more rural living where I'm at and I'm curious if that's just how it is in this type of area. Everything is flat no hills in sight. Other than grading away from the house and shop everything else just stays pretty much soaked in the winter time if we...

www.garagejournal.com

To complete the circle. I wish i knew how to link directly to post 3 in that thread : )

You're thinking waaay too deeply into this mine friend. There was a vert simple yes or no question that was asked in my other thread. Probably won't be answered now thanks to you bringing all this up.

 

[nickelTwin]

Wow!

 

[racecougar]

Grading a 2 acre lot?

My lot has way too much standing water. It's more rural living where I'm at and I'm curious if that's just how it is in this type of area. Everything is flat no hills in sight. Other than grading away from the house and shop everything else just stays pretty much soaked in the winter time if we...

www.garagejournal.com

To complete the circle. I wish i knew how to link directly to post 3 in that thread : )

Click the post number (top right of the post), then copy and paste the link. Like so: https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/grading-a-2-acre-lot.510324/#post-9977685