Drawing the line between 3/8" and 1/2"

[The Critic]

Was looking at Williams USA socket sets and noticed they offer two options for deep 3/8" chrome sockets:

Option #1: 8MM-19MM
Option #2: 6MM-25MM

Upon seeing this, two thoughts came to mind:

1) Aside from using shallow 22MM and 24MM sockets for certain oil filter removal tools, I have never "needed" to have 3/8" sockets above 19MM. Generally speaking, fasteners with heads larger than 19MM will be removed with 1/2" drive tools anyway, so what's the point?

2) Similarly, I do not see a reason to use 3/8" drive to remove a 6MM or 7MM head fastener. That is 1/4" territory, IMO. Heck, even 8 and 9MM head fasteners are arguably better served by 1/4".

Thoughts?

 

[whateg01]

well, if you only have one ratchet and it's 3/8", it might make sense to have sockets that fit it vs having 3 sets of sockets for 3 ratchets. That said, I have multiples of everything and the overlap doesn't matter. Sometimes, a 7mm head is on a larger bolt that a 1/4" drive ratchet doesn't provide enough leverage for. Battery bolts are a good example of that.

 

[Garcky]

Was looking at Williams USA socket sets and noticed they offer two options for deep 3/8" chrome sockets:

Option #1: 8MM-19MM
Option #2: 6MM-25MM

Upon seeing this, two thoughts came to mind:

1) Aside from using shallow 22MM and 24MM sockets for certain oil filter removal tools, I have never "needed" to have 3/8" sockets above 19MM. Generally speaking, fasteners with heads larger than 19MM will be removed with 1/2" drive tools anyway, so what's the point?

2) Similarly, I do not see a reason to use 3/8" drive to remove a 6MM or 7MM head fastener. That is 1/4" territory, IMO. Heck, even 8 and 9MM head fasteners are arguably better served by 1/4".

Thoughts?

I think it's more a matter of preferences and habit than anything else. I automatically reach for 3/8 drive stuff. Others rely mostly on 1/4. It also depends on what you work on most often.

 

[bigfunwmu]

When I do assembly work on the bench, I get a lot of use out of a 3/8 stubby ratchet or 3/8 M12 ratchet to zip stuff together and then a larger torque wrench with another socket to get to spec. 22mm and 24mm in 3/8 are useful for me. A 14mm allen socket in 3/8 would be nice too

 

[RedneckWelder]

Better to have more coverage. Sometimes you run into applications where you need the larger size but smaller overall socket size.

I try to buy my 3/8 sets up to 1” and 24mm.

 

[bonneyman]

I'd use 3/8" drive up to 3/4" if it wasn't a high torque application. Bigger than that I'd go with 1/2" drive for the DIYer. Never had to do suspension work so large rusted fasteners weren't on my radar screen. But if I regularly had to go bigger than a 1" socket - especially using a breaker bar - then I'd probably grab some 3/4" drive.

 

[Tools4Me]

I don't like having too many sockets, because I like things to stay as compact as possible. I use mainly hand tools for average sized bolts, and I have 8mm metric and 5/16" SAE as the starting point for my 3/8" drive sockets because those two sizes are functionally equivalent. I top my 3/8" drive sets out at 3/4" and 19mm because those sizes are also functionally equivalent. My 3/8" drive portable clamshell cased socket set also has those size ranges, so things are consistent between my shop setup and my portable setup which is nice as well.

My only impact wrench is 1/2" drive, and I use it when needed to remove stuck bolts, so having a nice range of impact sockets in 1/2" drive is more important to me than the range of my 3/8" drive chrome sockets. It all depends on what tools you have and how you prefer to work.

The only times I remember preferring 3/8" drive for sizes over 3/4" or 19mm are when I'm using a 3/8" drive 13/16" socket for some spark plugs, or a 3/8" drive 22mm or 7/8" socket for oxygen sensors. Those tasks require specialty sockets though, so I buy them and keep them in my specialty socket drawer. Along the same lines, if I needed something like a 3/8" drive 24mm socket for my vehicle's oil filter, I would buy that one socket and store it with my specialty sockets instead of adding more sockets to the end of my regular socket sets just so my main set could cover my oil filter.

 

[tyyost]

I think we just had a thread about the rising abundance of 1/4 drive and how it is becoming the new go to for small fasteners. As drive tools get better the socket sets can effectively address a wider range of fasteners. A stubby 3/8 and a 6mm socket or a long flex head could conceivably be used on suspension components in the 20mm and above range.

Honestly, manufacturers have probably had as much to do with what size drive goes with what as anything. The SK and craftsman sets I cut my teeth on had 1/4 drive running 3/16 to 7/16, 3/8 drive was 3/8 to 3/4 or 13/16, and 1/2 ran 5/8 to 1“ or on a better set 1 1/4”. I remember grabbing my SK 3/8 box set and crawl under the hood of my truck and being able to do just about anything. Ratchets are light years from the stuff I had, the first long 3/8 ratchet I had was a raised panel craftsman that I thought was life changing.

 

[VolvoRyan]

It's not really a "line" between drive sizes as much as overlap.

It made more sense for me to get the 1/2" drive version of the M12 impact. Same gun as the 3/8". I've used 12mm sockets on it.

-Ryan

 

[nbpt100]

I see it as convenience. I grab a socket rail and a ratchet. If I do not have to walk back to get anything else, it is a good thing. Nothing wrong with some overlap. Being able to use a smaller ratchet in tight quarters can make a huge difference. Yea, as Tyyost said, a long thread was recently created about this.

 

[Komet]

8-19mm realistically covers my 3/8 needs. If I was getting weird with bigger stuff and I needed my 3/8 ratchet, I'd just use a 3/8 to 1/2 adapter.

 

[Odd-job]

I like overlap too, but what's kind of dumb is getting a 8-19mm 3/8 set and then getting a 10-19mm 1/2 set. I was reminded I was an idiot again the other day and basically have said severely overlapping sets. Did not have the 22mm chrome shallow in 6 pt I was looking for when replacing struts on a Toyota.

IMHO the perfect 1/2 set would start at 15mm and go to 24mm. All of my 10mm 1/2 sockets sit blissfully unused and I'd have to loose a lot of other 10mm sockets before I have to start chipping into that stockpile.

 

[Dakotadadv8]

Did not have a complete set of any drive size when upgrading my tools. Repairing own vehicles and home projects over 20 years I bought complete sets of 1/4, 3/8/ and 1/2 drive. 3/8 drive sockets are 8mm to 19mm. 1/4 and 1/2 drive sets covers 5mm to 24mm. Still a lot of socket sizes rarely or never used but just in case.

 

[msharley]

I like overlap too, but what's kind of dumb is getting a 8-19mm 3/8 set and then getting a 10-19mm 1/2 set. I was reminded I was an idiot again the other day and basically have said severely overlapping sets. Did not have the 22mm chrome shallow in 6 pt I was looking for when replacing struts on a Toyota.

IMHO the perfect 1/2 set would start at 15mm and go to 24 32mm. All of my 10mm 1/2 sockets sit blissfully unused and I'd have to loose a lot of other 10mm sockets before I have to start chipping into that stockpile.

FIFY.

 

[lardy1]

I like using the smallest or lightest tool. I don't think I abuse my tools but I'm not afraid to lay into a long handled 3/8 ratchet on a one inch fastener. I try not to get stupid by extending the handle or standing on it but I trust my ratchets to work within the range of my sockets. I'm not afraid to work my long handles 1/4" drive on a 9/16 fastener either. Again, within reason.

 

[ecotec]

I like overlap too, but what's kind of dumb is getting a 8-19mm 3/8 set and then getting a 10-19mm 1/2 set. I was reminded I was an idiot again the other day and basically have said severely overlapping sets. Did not have the 22mm chrome shallow in 6 pt I was looking for when replacing struts on a Toyota.

IMHO the perfect 1/2 set would start at 15mm and go to 24mm. All of my 10mm 1/2 sockets sit blissfully unused and I'd have to loose a lot of other 10mm sockets before I have to start chipping into that stockpile.

I have never used a 10mm 1/2” drive socket either.

I “needed” them to fill pegs on my socket trays…

For low torque situations… I will use sockets way outside of normal range. A 15mm 1/4” socket on an oil drain bolt is no big deal… those 32mm 3/8” drive oil filter sockets are no big deal…

You just have to be smart about it…

Any size bolt… screwed into a metal boss… inset into plastic… is low torque. So, a huge socket in a small drive… no problem. When reassembling things like this… or even assembling the first time… I sometimes run the bolt threads over some Gulf wax or grease and then wipe the excess off.

 

[RedneckWelder]

I like overlap too, but what's kind of dumb is getting a 8-19mm 3/8 set and then getting a 10-19mm 1/2 set. I was reminded I was an idiot again the other day and basically have said severely overlapping sets. Did not have the 22mm chrome shallow in 6 pt I was looking for when replacing struts on a Toyota.

IMHO the perfect 1/2 set would start at 15mm and go to 24mm. All of my 10mm 1/2 sockets sit blissfully unused and I'd have to loose a lot of other 10mm sockets before I have to start chipping into that stockpile.

The cheap sets of sockets and wrenches sold often at big box stores have poor size ranges, IMHO. I wish I knew what I know now when I started and would have brought truly complete socket sets right from the getgo. Would have been cheaper and easier than adding to or replacing later. I would have purchased my impact 1/2 sets up to 1 1/2” and 36mm instead of the store set ranges up to 1 1/4 and 27mm, for example.

I have noticed that the tool trucks pull this **** as well especially with their sets on promos.

 

[cgrutt]

I thought it was because you needed 3/8 to fill up the 3/8 drawer and 1/2 to fill up the 1/2 drawer, no? I need a bigger box lol...

Seriously same question could be asked about why you need shallow, mid, deep and/or extra deep sockets in same drive. I usually use deep for everything don't recall last time I used shallow. Or 6 pt vs 12 pt... recall only needing a 12 pt socket once for my truck's front CV shaft. I keep that one 12-pt socket in my box I2mm IIRC. Chrome or impact. Don't get me started. Lots of overlapping coverage everywhere. It's what we do...

 

[LiketoFix]

Better to have more coverage. Sometimes you run into applications where you need the larger size but smaller overall socket size.

I try to buy my 3/8 sets up to 1” and 24mm.

I've run into so many different situations and needed a different tool than what I first reached for and wound up back at the tool box for a specialty tool or different set up!

LtF

 

[welder4956]

...I saw the thread title and immediately thought the answer was 7/16...

 

[nbpt100]

I thought it was because you needed 3/8 to fill up the 3/8 drawer and 1/2 to fill up the 1/2 drawer, no? I need a bigger box lol...

Seriously same question could be asked about why you need shallow, mid, deep and/or extra deep sockets in same drive. I usually use deep for everything don't recall last time I used shallow. Or 6 pt vs 12 pt... recall only needing a 12 pt socket once for my truck's front CV shaft. I keep that one 12-pt socket in my box I2mm IIRC. Chrome or impact. Don't get me started. Lots of overlapping coverage everywhere. It's what we do...

I usually grab my deeps first just so I do not have to use a small extension, should the need arise. It can also save your knuckles if going fast. However, sometimes only a shallow will do.
I have never owned mid sized sockets. I have always gotten by. There were a few times I am sure it would have made life better. In the big picture, when bought in sets sockets are not all that expensive. I am good with some redundancy. There are practical and reasons of convenience for some redundancy.

If you break a socket and need or want to keep working?
If you loose or misplace one and need or want to keep working?
have you ever use two of the same size socket at the same time on a nut and bolt?

 

[dchawk81]

Did not have a complete set of any drive size when upgrading my tools. Repairing own vehicles and home projects over 20 years I bought complete sets of 1/4, 3/8/ and 1/2 drive. 3/8 drive sockets are 8mm to 19mm. 1/4 and 1/2 drive sets covers 5mm to 24mm. Still a lot of socket sizes rarely or never used but just in case.

Same. Comprehensive sets to avoid being caught out. I don't get how people can feel adequately prepared with a ratchet and 5 sockets. Lol.

I go from 9 to 30mm in deep & shallow in my 1/2 drive metric impact kit with some extensions and a swivel, and 3/8 to 1-1/2 in the same SAE version.

I forget what all is in my 1/4 and 3/8 chrome kit without looking.

 

[Fedwrench]

The first thing I thought of, was who the hell uses a 25 mm socket but, I digress.

From back when I was a kid, a 3/8 drive socket set ran from 8-22mm and 5/16-7/8. Back in the day, that would hand handle probably 97% of fasteners encountered. Maybe it was because that's what SK sold at the parts house. Today things are a little more compact so, the upper range tops out at 24mm for me, although I have up to 26mm in 3/8 drive. I don't think I've ever used a 6mm socket, lots of 7mm's though.

I think drive size is up to the user and the task at hand, and not a peg marking on a hansen rack. There's a lot of plastic and alloys on a modern vehicle that too much brute force can damage. It also depends on what you're working on.
I don't see the need for boundaries for socket size/drive size. Use whatever you're comfortable with and gets the job done

 

[cgrutt]

I usually grab my deeps first just so I do not have to use a small extension, should the need arise. It can also save your knuckles if going fast. However, sometimes only a shallow will do.
I have never owned mid sized sockets. I have always gotten by. There were a few times I am sure it would have made life better. In the big picture, when bought in sets sockets are not all that expensive. I am good with some redundancy. There are practical and reasons of convenience for some redundancy.

If you break a socket and need or want to keep working?
If you loose or misplace one and need or want to keep working?
have you ever use two of the same size socket at the same time on a nut and bolt?

Oh I was serious when I said I needed a bigger box no need to school me on redundancy lol...

1/4 and 3/8



1/2 and torque wrenches



(Yes there are multiple layers lol)



Oh, does anyone need a hammer?

 

[tamaraw]

Was looking at Williams USA socket sets and noticed they offer two options for deep 3/8" chrome sockets:

Option #1: 8MM-19MM
Option #2: 6MM-25MM

Upon seeing this, two thoughts came to mind:

1) Aside from using shallow 22MM and 24MM sockets for certain oil filter removal tools, I have never "needed" to have 3/8" sockets above 19MM. Generally speaking, fasteners with heads larger than 19MM will be removed with 1/2" drive tools anyway, so what's the point?

3/8" could be also be used on larger sensors (22 or 24mm deep) that aren't super tight or you might be able to get away with it on some mechanical applications (ex: alignment).

2) Similarly, I do not see a reason to use 3/8" drive to remove a 6MM or 7MM head fastener. That is 1/4" territory, IMO. Heck, even 8 and 9MM head fasteners are arguably better served by 1/4".

Definitely overkill if you have 1/4" but it would give you more coverage if you were only carrying 3/8" in a mobile kit or whatever.

Thoughts?

My stuff is more euro style in that I mostly use 1/4" and 1/2" and pretty much skip 3/8" except for spark plug sockets.
I have 1/4" up to 14mm and 1/2" starting at 10mm, so there is a little bit of overlap depending upon available clearance or how tight the fastener is. That also lets me use two sockets on either side of a nut/bolt if necessary which is another reason why a socket set might include smaller sizes past it's "ideal" range.

 

[kaymccampbell]

Get option 2. You'll never regret having a larger range when it comes to sockets.

 

[Johnny Generic]

I'd have to loose a lot of other 10mm sockets before I have to start chipping into that stockpile.

Sooooooo you're the culprit who has all my lost 10mm sockets.

 

[Zewnten]

In chrome I have from 5/16 to 1" and 8mm to 21mm in 3/8, smaller sizes are just for shearing the bolt or nut head off. In impact I use 7/16 to 3/4, but I have split a chrome 3/4 12 point breaking bolts free with a breakr bar so I only use the chrome ones to speed up assembly/disassembly aftre breaking the hardware free with impact or larger drive size.

 

[finn]

When I was a kid in the sixties, I always used 1/2” drive. It was stronger, and there really wasn’t an issue with limited working space on those old cars and trucks.

The exception was spark plug changes on Mustangs, etc with the shock towers, especially big block cars. I suspect that was the first place I really sought out a 3/8” drive ratchet.

Now cars are smaller in general, and there’s a lot more crammed int a given space, so I see why 1/4” drive is becoming more common.

Having said that, I’m still not comfortable using large sockets on small drives, if there’s an option to use a larger drive.

That applies to 3/4” drive over 1/2” drive too.

 

[CS454]

Diesel fleet tech here, on a non edge case basis I reach for:

- 1/4" to 1/2" or 13mm (own up to 5/8" and 15mm)
- 3/8" to 3/4" or 19mm (own to 1" and 24mm)

I find sometimes my M12 1/4" driver just doesn't have enough to bust stuff loose, so I inevitably reach for the 3/8" stubby anyways.

 

[Gordon84]

When changing the knock sensor in my 05 Honda Accord, I needed a 24mm 3/8" drive socket. The KS is buried under the intake manifold and a 1/2" drive rat was too big to fit in there. If I had not had my 24"mm 3/8" socket, I was looking at removing the intake manifold and fuel rail to get to the KS.

 

[BarrelRoll]

At work the majority of the time I'm working a minimum of 100' to 1/2 an hour drive from my tool box. It's nice to grab a case or rail of sockets and have some extra coverage. My go to socket set is a 1/2" deep SAE GP impact socket set from 5/16"-1 1/2". Just today I was rebuilding a pump, it was nice to grab the 7/16" and 9/16" for pulling the guards. My 3/8" SAE rack goes from 1/4"-15/16", it's nice to have the smaller sockets for things like hose clamps and self drillers instead of also grabbing a 1/4" set.

 

[dnschmidt]

Anything bigger than 19mm-3/4" I'm using an impact on anyway. I've got everything, but, in practice I'm too lazy and old to grunt so I use electrons or air for anything taxing.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

When changing the knock sensor in my 05 Honda Accord, I needed a 24mm 3/8" drive socket. The KS is buried under the intake manifold and a 1/2" drive rat was too big to fit in there. If I had not had my 24"mm 3/8" socket, I was looking at removing the intake manifold and fuel rail to get to the KS.

IMO it's all about intended torque range. For instance a knock sensor is only going to be a little tighter than a 24mm oil filter housing. Both are 3/8 drive for me. Most oil filter housings are 25nm, 18.5 ft/lb, and most knock sensors aren't wildly above that. Thus 3/8 is the choice.

19mm or so you start into the range where your tightening torque is 1/2 drive. Around 15mm or so when rust is involved you're getting 1/2 impact ready for removal.

It's also about access. My 3/8 torque wrench can hit 125ft/lbs. If that's all that fits, that's getting used despite a 1/2 being easier.