Drill Press Chuck and Vise Questions

[57TWPW]

Hey All,

I researched the following here and on Practical Machinist but could not get a definitive answer...or at least I read and reread and still confused so here goes.


I have 3 drill presses I am looking to buy new chucks and vises for
-Atlas Clausing 1800 with production table.
-South Bend 14" Floor Model
-South Bend 14" Bench Model

For the Atlas:
-Is it an MT3 arbor?
-It has a Jacobs 18n now and I want to jump to a 20N...can you please provide a link or part number to the specific piece that fits into a bare 20N chuck to install?

-What is the best vise to have for this drill press. Prefer USA made, vintage or new. No budget preference.

For both South Bends:
-I would like to buy Albrecht chucks for both...should I get different sizes for each or the same for both?

-Can you please provide part numbers or size specs for which Albrecht to buy?
-What arbor do I need to buy for these or any other pieces to install the chucks?

What are the best vises for these 2?

Vintage USA iron or USA new preferred. No budget

Thank you in advance for your advice.

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[matt_i]

The #20N is a giant chuck. Nothing wrong with that. But it can't hold small drills, forget exactly, but somewhere around 1/8 to 3/32 I think is the cutoff.

You can purchase any model if you can remove the arbor that's in there. Easy as drilling a hole into the end of the chuck (its not hardened in that area) and then using a pin supported by the chuck jaws (close but loose fit) to remove the JT end with a hydraulic press. Its possible heavy duty arbor presses could do the trick but most people don't own those.

Imo the best drill press vise is a Kurt D675 or D688 or even newer models. Even their no name knockoffs are very useable on a DP. Strong clamping, lots of mass, lugs present to bolt them down when production setups are needed.

I know nothing of the Albrecht but my info is that a keyless chuck is essentially ruined if the drill bit slips & spins in the chuck. I much prefer the Jacobs Super Ball Bearing Chuck in smaller sizes for all classes of drilling work.

 

[tarmy]

Might want to consider two types of chucks...keyless and keyed...

I have a bed vice and the one I use most in the pics...

 

[MushCreek]

As a tool maker, I've used Albrecht chucks for years and years without ruining them. If you're going to run Silver and Deming drill bits that are larger than the shank, then go to a keyed chuck. Running oversized bits can damage them, or make them self-tighten so that it's very hard to get the bit out.

I have no idea what taper your Atlas has, nor do I know if they all had the same taper.

You have given no idea what kind of work you plan on doing. If I had a smaller, higher RPM machine, I'd run a smaller chuck in that one. I have four different sized chucks for my mill, all for different uses. They range from a 1/16" on a hand feed quill all the way up to a 5/8th's. They're all Albrecht. I do have reduced-shank drills; they go in a collet.

A good solid vise like the Kurt is a good idea. If it were me, I'd have one set up with an X-Y table so you can place holes where you want them, but again, I have no idea what kind of work you are doing.

 

[jmarkwolf]

Why on earth do you think you want a Jacobs 20N super chuck in a small drill press? The minimum size drill bit it can hold is a 3/8". Not to mention they cost over $500. And they require a relatively massive 5JT arbor. Not sure if an appropriate arbor even exists to mate to a small drill press like that.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000656GRA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

In any case, I think the best drill press vise is the Cardinal Speed Vise. I have 2, a 4in and a 6in.

https://www.penntoolco.com/cardinal-speed-vise-quick-action-design/

I have a Kurt D688 vise on my milling machine, and I don't think I would ever want to use it on my 20in drill press.

 

[CraigStu]

A couple of thoughts. I got one of these for Christmas.
https://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=5013&category=-269978449
I know it is a low end piece made in China but I want to second MushCreek's advice to have one on one of your drill presses.
I don't have chucks as large as you are asking about but I have one like this to use w/ real small bits. I just chuck it in the normal chuck.

 

[Augus7us]

I think the first thing you need to do is find the manual and determine what type of taper each press has then look at what is available. Everything else is speculation until you figure that out.

After that the sky is the limit. I think there is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to chucks and drill presses. Personally I bought precision Mathews keyless chucks for mine. And a cheap irwin vice from HD. Never had a need for anything better.

As far as removing the chuck, all my presses required you downfeed the quill then pop it out with a "chuck key", no idea what its called, I made mine.

 

[larry_g]

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=182&tab=3
The above site may have your drill press information. Drill presses come in a variety of spindle sizes and many could be ordered with what ever spindle you required. I also have to question the use of a precision keyless chuck on an old floppy drill press. All but one of my drill presses have keyed chucks. They are for rough drilling. The precision chucks are on the one sensitive drill press I have and the milling machine. Even on the mill I have keyed chucks for when the job calls for them.

Make your decisions on the jobs you do not on name brand stuff that only a few will know, and even less will understand.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[dr_clyde]

I wouldn't recommend a 20N Superchuck in a drill that small. You'll find that drill doesn't have the HP to use drills and taps that big. If you want to, go for it, but it's way too big for that size drill press.

The 18N Superchuck is the best chuck you can have on that drill.

For the Albrecht chucks, I have 1-13 size chucks on my drills. They hold 1/32" to 1/2" and they are very nice quality. If you're going to put them in a MT3, you'll want to buy a MT3 x Jacobs 33 taper adapter, mine has part number AO333.

I have no way of knowing what taper your drill spindles are. You'll have to measure that for yourself and compare to known numbers if you can't tell by looking. Most drill presses that have a Morse Taper have a slot on the spindle for you to use a taper tool removal wedge to knock out the tool. If your drill press spindle doesn't have such a slot, you probably have an integral Jacobs taper. In which case you'll need to use chuck removal wedges to get off the existing chuck.

As far as vises are concerned, my absolute favorite drill press vise is the Cardinal Speed Vise. They have a buttress thread spindle, so you can quickly adjust size. You can use it on its side, and it has built in vee blocks and slots to hold round or odd shaped things.

Mill vises work, but they are heavy and slow, and hard to use unless they are bolted to the table.

The other vise to look at is the Float Lock vise.

 

[57TWPW]

I wouldn't recommend a 20N Superchuck in a drill that small. You'll find that drill doesn't have the HP to use drills and taps that big. If you want to, go for it, but it's way too big for that size drill press.

The 18N Superchuck is the best chuck you can have on that drill.

For the Albrecht chucks, I have 1-13 size chucks on my drills. They hold 1/32" to 1/2" and they are very nice quality. If you're going to put them in a MT3, you'll want to buy a MT3 x Jacobs 33 taper adapter, mine has part number AO333.

I have no way of knowing what taper your drill spindles are. You'll have to measure that for yourself and compare to known numbers if you can't tell by looking. Most drill presses that have a Morse Taper have a slot on the spindle for you to use a taper tool removal wedge to knock out the tool. If your drill press spindle doesn't have such a slot, you probably have an integral Jacobs taper. In which case you'll need to use chuck removal wedges to get off the existing chuck.

As far as vises are concerned, my absolute favorite drill press vise is the Cardinal Speed Vise. They have a buttress thread spindle, so you can quickly adjust size. You can use it on its side, and it has built in vee blocks and slots to hold round or odd shaped things.

Mill vises work, but they are heavy and slow, and hard to use unless they are bolted to the table.

The other vise to look at is the Float Lock vise.

Thanks for the awesome info dr.clyde!!!
I'll look into all advice mentioned!

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[infinkc]

Might want to consider two types of chucks...keyless and keyed...

I have a bad vice and the one I use most in the pics...

How do you like the keyless chuck? i have been considering one for ease. Holds the bit fine i assume? does it have a ratcheting lock as you turn tighter?

 

[nadogail]

My morse taper arbor and Jacobs chuck were purchased from MSC.

 

[tarmy]

How do you like the keyless chuck? i have been considering one for ease. Holds the bit fine i assume? does it have a ratcheting lock as you turn tighter?

I use it almost exclusively...it holds bits great. I only use the keyed chuck maybe once a year...usually for larger diameter drills in harder material.

If you get a good one you would be surprised how well they grip.

 

[zmotorsports]

I bought a new Wilton quick release drill vise about year or so ago to replace the acme threaded Dayton vise I kept on my drill press and really like this one.


As for chucks, I agree that 20N is a huge chuck. I have an 16N on my floor mounted drill press and another on an R8 collet for the milling machine as well as an 18N for larger bits and another 18N on a morse taper for my lathe but on the lathe and mill I generally grab for my Albrecht keyless unless using larger twist drills or S&D bits.

 

[matt_i]

Mill vises work, but they are heavy and slow, and hard to use unless they are bolted to the table..

It is useful however to be able to have a 4ft channel in the vise and have the counterweight to support it.

I really like the mass of the mill vise, its inertia makes it much less likely to start moving when the drill thrust drops off to zero as one breaks thru.

I tried it once as I had a swiss-cheesed kurt knockoff laying around from various purchasing escapades and was forever sold.

Its good to have some parallels but regular old 1018 cold rolled is perfectly accurate for drill press work.

 

[57TWPW]

I got a 20N since I made an offer on one and it was accepted....holy mother that chuck is massive! Everyone here is correct, the largest chuck that works for my Atlas/Clausing 1800 is that 18N..I still like having that 20N though, man the sheer mass of the thing..what a beautiful piece of machinery!

On to the vise, looks like I got my research work to do to see between a cardinal vise and some other mentioned here. After a quick look, it seems the cardinal vises go for a pretty penny used and close enough to buy new.
I'll keep a look at out since there is no reasonable limit on how many vises on must have..I passed that number long ago!

My work will be vehicle fabrication for metal and light woodwork for home projects.