Drill press chuck & taper removal

[mark-NJ]

In a separate thread I said that I was given a Rockwood 120-IND drill press. The runout on the taper shaft is *zero*...perfect! The chuck, however, has seen better days and could stand to be replaced. Direct replacements are available, so this should be a no-brainer.

Should be.

This drill press doesn't have a slot in the spindle, so I can't put a wedge tool through / above the taper shaft. Other drill presses I've owned have only needed a medium tap on a piece of wood with a hammer and the chuck / taper falls right out. But not on this one. I'm reluctant to wail on it...that can't be good for the spindle. But this chuck won't come out. The taper won't come out of the spline; the chuck won't come off the taper. It's possible that this taper / chuck has never been out and is just all gummed up, but regardless: it won't come.

Preference would be to remove the taper & chuck, but if I could get just the chuck off (JT3), I could replace it on the existing taper.

Any ideas for removal?

 

[vwpieces]

Heat, doesn't take much for some expansion.
Will also soften the GOO.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

You need taper wedges
Just pick a size based upon the size of your chuck / spindle taper.

 

[mark-NJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the wedges are to get the chuck off the taper *AFTER* the taper is out of the drill press spindle. No?

As for heat, won't that mess up the bearing seals?

EDIT: Is it possible that, on this drill press, that there isn't a removable Morse taper shaft at all, and that the spindle is fixed with a #3 taper for the chuck? I don't know, and I don't have a manual...

 

[vwpieces]

Heat, doesn't take much for some expansion.

As for heat, won't that mess up the bearing seals?

For example on how little heat it takes for some expansion. If a piston pin is too tight I can usually heat piston in my hands with body heat. That alone will let a tight slip fit pin install easily in a piston. And it does not take much heat to soften Old grease.

But I think you need more research on your drill press. Perhaps vintagemachinery.org has a manual?

 

[RTM]

Lots of names used “120-ind” as a model number, including farm and fleet, Rockford, rock wood, Milwaukee, just in a quick search. No manuals. None in VM on that model number. You can try to search by “label name”

 

[GeoBruin]

You need taper wedges
Just pick a size based upon the size of your chuck / spindle taper.

I think you're right on the money. I had a simar issue when I discovered the taper on my 2mt live center was too short to engage the ejection pin on the tailstock. I machined a very similar looking thing and now I keep it around for emergencies.

 

[shawhite]

Sounds like your spindle has a j33 or similar taper for the drill chuck to attach to. Like mentioned above buy the correct wedges for your application slide them behind the chuck and compress (don’t hammer as this could bend your spindle). Also you may want to look inside the chuck to make sure there isn’t a screw holding it to the spindle.

 

[dutchgray]

I think you're right on the money. I had a simar issue when I discovered the taper on my 2mt live center was too short to engage the ejection pin on the tailstock. I machined a very similar looking thing and now I keep it around for emergencies.

Drill tap and stick a cap head screw in tail end, unless it's one with a small rear bearing buried down in the morse taper.

 

[uart]

I think you're right on the money. I had a simar issue when I discovered the taper on my 2mt live center was too short to engage the ejection pin on the tailstock. I machined a very similar looking thing and now I keep it around for emergencies.

Yours is a lot neater than mine. I made my two very rough wedges out of scrap with just an angle grinder and file, but they still work ok.

It's a lot better to use two thinner wedges than one fat one though. When you insert them from opposite sides, the tapers cancel out and they provide an expansion force that's nicely perpendicular instead of cocked at the taper angle.

Grease up two wedges (minimizing the friction maximizes the expansion force), place them in from either side, and then just lightly tap them both at the same time from either side. I've had to do this a couple of times on my DP, and the chuck just pops straight off without any drama.

 

[GeoBruin]

Drill tap and stick a cap head screw in tail end, unless it's one with a small rear bearing buried down in the morse taper.

That was the next step.

 

[mark-NJ]

I'm reading these posts and, well, I'm lost. Are you talking about my drill press chuck or someone's lathe tail?

 

[Boogerman]

I'm reading these posts and, well, I'm lost. Are you talking about my drill press chuck or someone's lathe tail?

Drill press chuck goes in same way a lathe chuck does. Wedge tool removes it. I change mine all the time for different chucks, adding mortising tool, etc. The tool hangs on the drill press for easy access when needed.

 

[GeoBruin]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the wedges are to get the chuck off the taper *AFTER* the taper is out of the drill press spindle. No?

As for heat, won't that mess up the bearing seals?

EDIT: Is it possible that, on this drill press, that there isn't a removable Morse taper shaft at all, and that the spindle is fixed with a #3 taper for the chuck? I don't know, and I don't have a manual...

To answer this (sort of), yes, it was common for drill presses to come with a male Jacobs taper on the end of the spindle. In many cases, if you wanted to use tooling with a 2 Morse taper, you had to use an adapter.

In any case, I think you I've been given the answer to your ultimate question here, which is that you need to make or buy wedges to separate the chuck from the end of the spindle.

 

[mark-NJ]

This is just....amazing. Tried wedges...Chuck didn't budge. Tried a wheel puller...Chuck didn't budge. Tried hammer tapping...Chuck didn't budge. Put a lot of force on this. Nothing.

I mixed up some acetone & ATF, squirted some at the taper joint. Waited 10 minutes then heated the chuck with a propane torch. The utterly-unexpected happened: with no force applied other than the earth's gravitational pull, the chuck fell off.

Fell off.

Amazing

 

[GeoBruin]

Looks like vwpieces gets the prize.

 

[mark-NJ]

^^^

Absolutely!

 

[Toold_up]

This is just....amazing. Tried wedges...Chuck didn't budge. Tried a wheel puller...Chuck didn't budge. Tried hammer tapping...Chuck didn't budge. Put a lot of force on this. Nothing.

I mixed up some acetone & ATF, squirted some at the taper joint. Waited 10 minutes then heated the chuck with a propane torch. The utterly-unexpected happened: with no force applied other than the earth's gravitational pull, the chuck fell off.

Fell off.

Amazing

Cool, good job, now what is up with that flow chart?

 

[mark-NJ]

Cool, good job, now what is up with that flow chart?

Have to say, I had no idea what you were talking about. "Flow chart?" Then I re-read my posting and caught the background! A-HA! Flowchart!

It's about buying a boat. Pretty damn accurate, if you ask me!

 

[Lucid Moments]

I am going to tag onto this post. Any suggestions on where to buy a new chuck for a drill press? I happen to need one also. And suggestions on a chuck to buy wouldn't hurt either.

 

[shawhite]

If I was in the market for a new chuck I would look for NOS Jacobs on eBay.

 

[nadogail]

My most recent chuck purchase was a new Jacobs from MSC. That may have been 15 years ago.

 

[Toold_up]

Jacobs chucks are made in china :barf: now. Buy a used chuck and a rebuild kit. You can separate the chuck and the arbor and buy a new arbor to match your spindle if need be.

Super chucks are the most desiarable ones.

 

[RTM]

I am going to tag onto this post. Any suggestions on where to buy a new chuck for a drill press? I happen to need one also. And suggestions on a chuck to buy wouldn't hurt either.

I have a handful of used chucks picked up cheap at garage, estate, etc sales. Some beefy ball bearing, some multi craft, the full range. I’m sure you can find them being resold on your local CL without too much trouble, just need to know what attachment you need to your DP.

 

[Grant Gunderson]

I am going to tag onto this post. Any suggestions on where to buy a new chuck for a drill press? I happen to need one also. And suggestions on a chuck to buy wouldn't hurt either.

Used Albrecht. Easy to rebuild. Just fine one that someone hasn’t put a pipe wrench on and order a rebuild kit.

I like them so much I don’t remember the last time I used one of my Jacob Chuck’s unless it was for a very large drill

 

[bpwoodworking]

I’ll second that, I’ve rebuilt a few Albrects and they’re wonderful chucks.

McMaster sells replacement parts for them. Knuckleheads put wrenches on the collar for some reason, so if the collar is all chewed up it can be replaced.

 

[Davefr]

If you buy a used chuck you absolutely need to make sure the seller provides detailed close up images of the jaws. If they're all chewed up you'll find that replacements can be very expensive and approach the price of a new chuck.

New Albrecht would be the best but they're pretty spendy. There are some no name brands that have some decent reviews at a fraction of the price. (ex: Shars)

 

[dutchgray]

I’ll second that, I’ve rebuilt a few Albrects and they’re wonderful chucks.

McMaster sells replacement parts for them. Knuckleheads put wrenches on the collar for some reason, so if the collar is all chewed up it can be replaced.

I bought a pair of new in box 5/8" Albrects at a machinery auction, it was about £160 for the pair, I considered them almost free the lot also contained several new chuck arbors and a bunch of new countersinks.

I also had one I bought used at a model engineering show, it was £45 and looked really good, found the arbor was bent the first time I used it. So had to replace that.

They are very good chucks and can be bought used cheaply if you're paying attention.

 

[Toold_up]

Knuckleheads put wrenches on the collar for some reason, so if the collar is all chewed up it can be replaced.

Thats because they dont come with a wrench like a Jacobs chuck. Albrects are nice and all but I feel like a good super chuck has better grip.

 

[vwpieces]

Looks like vwpieces gets the prize.

I give all the credit to the Auto-Majik ****** fluid.

 

[bpwoodworking]

Thats because they dont come with a wrench like a Jacobs chuck. Albrects are nice and all but I feel like a good super chuck has better grip.

I can’t think of any reason why one would need to put a pipe wrench on the collar.

 

[Toold_up]

I can’t think of any reason why one would need to put a pipe wrench on the collar.

Grip!

 

[Grant Gunderson]

Thats because they dont come with a wrench like a Jacobs chuck. Albrects are nice and all but I feel like a good super chuck has better grip.

I can’t think of any reason why one would need to put a pipe wrench on the collar.

Grip!

The Albrechts are designed to actually get tighter under use. So anything more than hand snug is tightening them too much and is asking for problems. I have had issues with them getting too tight to release when using my larger silver and Deming bits or when using the same drill for a large number of holes.

When that happens I use a strap wrench to loosen them. So I mainly just use the Jacob chucks now for use with my largest drill bits when I have the mill in back gear.

The Albrechts have less runout and are just a finer piece of tooling then the Jacob’s. They make the Jacob’s feel clunky and cheap by comparison and my Jacob’s are all usa made
too.


Regardless of what chuck you use, if you do end up spinning a bit it’s really important to take a stone to them and debur them. This will provide better grip and will prevent further damage to the chucks jaws.

 

[alfadan]

If buying new, Rohm makes a decent, fairly priced chuck.