Hey guys, I just got a new to me craftsman 16 speed floor drill press. I am certain it is a Chicom version. I was trying to drill some 3/4” holes in 1/4” plate tonight and the bit was chattering and vibrating the piece all over the table as soon as the bit touched the piece. Tried another bit, same thing. And another. Checked runout and it wasn’t exactly great just eyeballing it. Is there anything I can do, or am I just SOL? It is in really nice shape, like brand new, so I hope I can do something!
Drill press runout
- Thread starter jkesselr
- Start date
Firebrick43
Well-known member
Where you trying to drill 3/4 all in one go? That is to much in steel for most 14-16” drill presses. You need to step drill such as 3/8-1/2-3/4. Second is the part centered and then clamped down tight table, not just in a vise. Third is I assume your using a silver and deming style bit? Most are junk and have lots of run out and drill tri lobe shape holes. If your dp has Morse taper shanks use an actual Morse taper bit of 1/2”. They are much better.
techieman33
Well-known member
Have you tried reseating the chuck? You could also try a different chuck. Runout will probably always be a problem with a cheap drill press though.
As far as actually drilling the hole, did you center punch your mark? Did you drill a pilot hole? Step up through a couple sizes? If your trying to just push a 3/4" bit through steel without taking at least some of those steps is going to be nearly impossible with a drill press like that.
As far as actually drilling the hole, did you center punch your mark? Did you drill a pilot hole? Step up through a couple sizes? If your trying to just push a 3/4" bit through steel without taking at least some of those steps is going to be nearly impossible with a drill press like that.
William Payne
Well-known member
List of potential things to also check.
Was your work clamped down? If not clamp your work.
Improperly sharpened drill, check that.
Drills will try and follow a hole, if they jump around crazy like that it can wind up trying to drill a triangular hole.
Was your work clamped down? If not clamp your work.
Improperly sharpened drill, check that.
Drills will try and follow a hole, if they jump around crazy like that it can wind up trying to drill a triangular hole.
William Payne
Well-known member
Oh and wrong drill speed can also play a part.
Incorrectly chucked drill bit, bad drill bits, bad chuck (jaws) from abuse, or chuck seat improperly like mentioned, wrong feed speed, bad pulley, bad belt, incorrectly use of the drill press and the list goes on. including expectation from a drill press.
ymmv of cause... There are plenty of articles on the web how to check and and adjust these.
Just how did the OP determined it was run out and not user problem?
Did you put a on dial gauge on, and check, or just assume it's the tool ?
Just saying, lots of problems with the tools..
ymmv of cause... There are plenty of articles on the web how to check and and adjust these.
Just how did the OP determined it was run out and not user problem?
Did you put a on dial gauge on, and check, or just assume it's the tool ?
Just saying, lots of problems with the tools..
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dutchgray
Well-known member
3/4" in 1/4" plate is a job for a step drill if you are using that kind of drill. Or a 3/4" rotabroach if you have a Weldon adapter.
Not that you couldn't do it with a twist drill, its just not ideal for material that thin.
Not that you couldn't do it with a twist drill, its just not ideal for material that thin.
IMHO that's common and not necessarily the fault of DP runout.
You need to drill progressively larger center holes and clamp the piece so it's rock solid and set the speed really slow (200 RPM max.) and use lots of lubricant. Your feed rate also needs to be very slow and maybe try peck drilling and/or use a countersink to get started so the bit can ease into the work and not grab.
You need to drill progressively larger center holes and clamp the piece so it's rock solid and set the speed really slow (200 RPM max.) and use lots of lubricant. Your feed rate also needs to be very slow and maybe try peck drilling and/or use a countersink to get started so the bit can ease into the work and not grab.
No, I predrilled 1/4-3/8-9/16-3/4. It was a set of US Lawson bits with part clamped down.
The bit was chucked properly and tightened with all three chuck key holes, using three different high quality bits would seem to rule out the bits, chuck could be improperly seated, I suppose. Feed speed isn’t really an issue, because just touching the bit to the work caused immense vibration and chattering. The drill press is essentially new, so bad pull your belt seems unlikely. I would think a floor model (16”?) drill press ought to be able to drill a hole in 1/4” P&O plate.
I didn’t take the time to slap my dial indicator on it last night at 11:00. I haven’t been out to the shop yet, but will when I get a minute. I checked runout by holding the end of the chuck key to the chuck while spinning. The runout was visible.
JABgj
Well-known member
See if you can find a manual online and see if there is a way to adjust the spindle bearings. Might help if possible.
If you have visible runout then there is something definitely out of whack.
Reseat, check w/ indicator. Thats your safest and fastest route.
If you do have a bad chuck, consider going keyless when upgrading. I did with my DP and I wont be going back to keyed anytime soon.
Reseat, check w/ indicator. Thats your safest and fastest route.
If you do have a bad chuck, consider going keyless when upgrading. I did with my DP and I wont be going back to keyed anytime soon.
JABgj
Well-known member
Plus 1 on the keyless chuck. Big improvement for a few reasons.
Try chucking a 1/16" drill bit into the chuck and crank up the speed all the way. Does the bit look stationary or does it look blurry at the tip?
if you have vibration... inspect belts first... especially those drill press not being used often. then tend to form or distorted... my JET was like that, I changed to one of those Fancy A-Belts (was $20 then) ... and that fixed the problem. Unless some how your Previous OWNER abused it like a step child and damaged the spindle then you are SOL... The craftsman floor stand drill press are not that cheaply made even if it is COO China... especially the ones at that sized...
you'll probably needed a dial gauge to help you adjust your round outs after you have eliminate all the component problems...
https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html
****if you are to check with dial gauge, unhook the belt first
regarding drilling holes on a 1/4 plate...
my Jet is 14" with a 1/2 or 3/4 HP motor... with a 2 pulley system ( not 3) if I were to try and drill the 3/4 holes on a 1/4 plate without stepping it or use lubes ... It would not end well... either the bits get stuck, or holes drilled out just look crappy. if it bothers me that much, I'll probably upgrade it to the 1-1/2 HP or 2HP motor I have... and search to find a cheap middle pulley.
I know a lot of machinist would laugh at you when you use different size drill bits to step up to your final size... but their machines have bigger motor and more pulleys... yours, I don't know.. I just know mine does NFG on any holes bigger than 1/2. and 5/8 is the max bits my chuck could do... anything bigger I have to use those silver deming bits.. and I am pretty sure the holes comes out wobble when I tried to go 3/4 in one shot.. but hey you might have a better dp than me.
you'll probably needed a dial gauge to help you adjust your round outs after you have eliminate all the component problems...
https://www.harborfreight.com/vibration-free-link-belt-43771.html
****if you are to check with dial gauge, unhook the belt first
regarding drilling holes on a 1/4 plate...
my Jet is 14" with a 1/2 or 3/4 HP motor... with a 2 pulley system ( not 3) if I were to try and drill the 3/4 holes on a 1/4 plate without stepping it or use lubes ... It would not end well... either the bits get stuck, or holes drilled out just look crappy. if it bothers me that much, I'll probably upgrade it to the 1-1/2 HP or 2HP motor I have... and search to find a cheap middle pulley.
I know a lot of machinist would laugh at you when you use different size drill bits to step up to your final size... but their machines have bigger motor and more pulleys... yours, I don't know.. I just know mine does NFG on any holes bigger than 1/2. and 5/8 is the max bits my chuck could do... anything bigger I have to use those silver deming bits.. and I am pretty sure the holes comes out wobble when I tried to go 3/4 in one shot.. but hey you might have a better dp than me
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I have a small bench top drill press that I got super cheap, it needed a switch... it has 1/2 thou runout on the spindle, but about 10 thou in the chuck. for what I use it for I can live with it, but someday I'll probably buy a new chuck for it
Bigblue&Goldie
Well-known member
As others have said, try reseating the chuck on the arbor.
dutchgray
Well-known member
You will have to get the chuck out and run the indicator on the spindle itself, if there is runout there (I doubt it would be zero but it should be very little) then the drill is essentially junk. You would either have to return it if it is new or take it apart and find where in the spindle the error is, could be bent, bad bearings, machined out of line.
That is worse case though. If the drill is new and the runout on a drill bit is visible and it isn't just a bent bit, I would bet the chuck is no good or really badly seated.
That is very hard on std drill bits because it only loads the very ends of the flukes - risking breaking off those corners.
As already mentioned, the step-drill & lube is a better idea. Start with a smallish pilot drill to save the life of the tip on the stepdrill.
Without the step drill, start with the 1/8"-1/4" pilot and go right to 3/4". Engages most of the cutting edge. Use lube, go slow, and at the right pressure you will pull off beautiful tight continuous metal spirals. Make sure you clamp your work down good, because you get through 1/4" quite fast and it will want to grab on the very last bite as it pushes through.
kald
Well-known member
My early 80 Craftsman run between .003 and .010 run out depending on which chuck/Morse taper I'm using.
Its irritating as hell. Jacobs brand is the best at 3-5 though.
It varies everytime I reseat the chuck and or tapers.
I'm below .001 measuring the arbor.
Its irritating as hell. Jacobs brand is the best at 3-5 though.
It varies everytime I reseat the chuck and or tapers.
I'm below .001 measuring the arbor.
So how did things go with the first 3 bits? Did the 9/16 go through with no problem? How are things trammed? If your out of tram just a bit then only 1 flute of the bit is going to grab and then chatter set up. Run the spindle at the lowest speed you have and then lean into so both flutes are cutting.
With a 1/4" thick material are you ever getting the lands in the hole before breaking out the other side? This to will cause you problems.
lg
no neat sig line
Hey guys, so I put a dial indicator on it. At the taper, less than .001. At the chuck face where the chuck key fits in, less than .001. With a transfer punch chucked up, shortly below the chuck, a good .0015, maybe .002. About 3” down the punch, it is .005+.
I imagine this is the jaws in the chuck themselves? So, what is the best way to go in getting a good chuck that is true and not having to pay a fortune in the process? Recommendations?
I imagine this is the jaws in the chuck themselves? So, what is the best way to go in getting a good chuck that is true and not having to pay a fortune in the process? Recommendations?
...... find out what kind of taper it takes...
MT or JT are common... and even that Higher tolerances one cost $$$$$ , If I remember correctly the keyless chuck from Craftsman for their larger drill press cost over $350 USA made one. I just saw it on one of their store shelves when they were closing down...
But really your expectations of a drill press, not a milling machine.
MT or JT are common... and even that Higher tolerances one cost $$$$$ , If I remember correctly the keyless chuck from Craftsman for their larger drill press cost over $350 USA made one. I just saw it on one of their store shelves when they were closing down...
But really your expectations of a drill press, not a milling machine.
Chucks run out all the time, even the expensive German brand does. Drills also run out all the time. It's usually a non-issue for most production. I don't know the condition of your drill, but you did mention holding the work piece rather than clamping it. This by far is your problem, especially since you are step-drilling. The second is not applying enough pressure. If your press has the HP, lay into it. If not, definitely clamp that work piece and keep the RPM low.
William Payne
Well-known member
I don't care what anyone says clamping your work is just good practice. It improves your accuracy and there is nothing impressive about being hurt by a drill press.
I had a similar problem with my bench top mill/drill except the indicated runout at the shank of the bit was much worse than yours. I replaced the chuck that came with the machine with a Precision Matthews keyless chuck. Not the nicest in the world but a considerable step up and it came well reviewed.
The difference was night and day. I have almost no detectable runout now and I kick myself for not doing it sooner. The worst part is I tried everything mentioned in this thread first thinking it was my problem.
In my case the chuck has an R8 shank but I'm sure PM makes them with MT as well. Good luck!
ps, I should have mentioned the chuck that came with the mill came in two pieces, the R8 shank with some sort of taper and the chuck itself. Per the instructions, I mated them and gave the shank a tap with a 2x4 which basically permanently made them one piece. I never did quite trust that setup so I made sure when finding a replacement to find one that came as one unit from the factory.
The difference was night and day. I have almost no detectable runout now and I kick myself for not doing it sooner. The worst part is I tried everything mentioned in this thread first thinking it was my problem.
In my case the chuck has an R8 shank but I'm sure PM makes them with MT as well. Good luck!
ps, I should have mentioned the chuck that came with the mill came in two pieces, the R8 shank with some sort of taper and the chuck itself. Per the instructions, I mated them and gave the shank a tap with a 2x4 which basically permanently made them one piece. I never did quite trust that setup so I made sure when finding a replacement to find one that came as one unit from the factory.
I don't think your drilling problem is a result of .005" of runout 3" below the jaws. Most of the premium Jacobs ball bearing chucks are spec'd at .003 T.I.R. at half capacity. I don't think Albrecht is much better.
Trying to get to <<.005 at 3" below the chuck might just be an exercise in futility IMHO. DP's are not precision milling machines.
I'd focus on technique before laying down big bucks on a premium chuck.
TTBOMK, the Craftsman floor drills are only rated up to 1/2” diameter holes in steel.
I've got an old one from the sixties or thereabouts and the spindle has always vibrated. Started out with about 0.020" TIR, replacing the chuck with a new US-made Jacobs cut that to under 0.010", and replacing the spindle bearings got it down to around 0.005" TIR. It still drives me nuts, so for small precision work I got a Servo bench press (which is da bomb), which doesn't seem to have any run-out and will go up to 20,000 RPM.
I should really upgrade the drill press, but it has a fair bit of sentimental value.
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I've got an old one from the sixties or thereabouts and the spindle has always vibrated. Started out with about 0.020" TIR, replacing the chuck with a new US-made Jacobs cut that to under 0.010", and replacing the spindle bearings got it down to around 0.005" TIR. It still drives me nuts, so for small precision work I got a Servo bench press (which is da bomb), which doesn't seem to have any run-out and will go up to 20,000 RPM.
I should really upgrade the drill press, but it has a fair bit of sentimental value.
Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk
American Locomotive
Well-known member
IMO, 3/4" is a lot to ask from a standard consumer/pro-sumer drill press with a standard twist drill.
When we had to drill a ton of 5/8" through 1/4" plate on a standard drill press, we had a hard time with even 5/8" twist drills. We ended up switching to a 5/8" carbide annular cutter/hole saw (something similar to this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BLU-MOL-5-8-in-Standard-Tungsten-Carbide-Hole-Cutter-3165/205562685) and it's amazing how much better it worked. Cut faster, way less chatter, etc...
When we had to drill a ton of 5/8" through 1/4" plate on a standard drill press, we had a hard time with even 5/8" twist drills. We ended up switching to a 5/8" carbide annular cutter/hole saw (something similar to this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/BLU-MOL-5-8-in-Standard-Tungsten-Carbide-Hole-Cutter-3165/205562685) and it's amazing how much better it worked. Cut faster, way less chatter, etc...