Drill Press Tap Pusher Thingy

[machine_punk]

I openly profess my ignorance on this tool, and I am willing to go through ridicule to figure this out, because it seems like this tool is the bees knees for tapping. I suppose the average Joe would have titled this 'School me on ____," but I'm not normal and I think the title says it all:

Here is what I am looking for--the thing you chuck up in a drill press or lathe and it has a short, spring-loaded rod, which pushes against, and keeps in alignment, the tap you are using. This allows you to use your drill press as a big 'tapping machine' (without turning on the power, of course).

I've seen them around, but seen many different names for it. I've got an ENCO order going in today or tomorrow and they, quite uncharacteristically, are the worst--they don't seem to have a universal place to put this device in their catalog, or a standard name with which to call it. The ENCO catalog is normally quite informational and laid out well. I've even seen something, which I assume to be this device, featured in the monthly ad, but had difficulty finding it in the main catalog or online.

The one I am considering...
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=34648526&PMAKA=PN325-5179

Lists #10 as the smallest tap with which it will work. While a majority of my tapped holes are #10-32, and the largest is in the range of 5/16", I'd like to use it for smaller stuff too (at least down to #6, but possibly down to #4).

Anybody have a recommendation for one of these that they particularly like? I guess my range of tapping would be something like #4 through 5/16". I'd like to be able to use this in my drill press or mini lathe. It seems to be common that they can switch between a 'pointy tip' and a 'cupped tip,' by reversing the spring-actuated rod.

Something from ENCO would be my preference, just because I have an order going in soon. I'd prefer US-made, if possible. Of course, if there is a 'gold standard' version of this tool, I'd rather have that.

If you have any amazing tips for getting the most out of these, I'd appreciate that too.

Thanks!

M_P

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I have a couple of these and I use them all of the time. I have one set at pointy, and one set at concave. I have others of various designs that I use occasionally, but the one you list is the one I use the most.

 

[nehog]

I have several tap T handles which have a shaft in the center (floating) that you chuck into the drill press. I'm not sure of the name (they are in the shop) but they do work if you are not doing a lot of holes. (OK, I also have a tapping machine for when many holes need to be tapped)

Nice thing about those T handle ones is the center shaft can be removed and you can use it as a regular tap handle.

There are also power tapping adapters for drill presses (run about 100 to 200) which allow you to tap using the drill press' power. I've never tried one but considered them before I got the tapping machine.

 

[nehog]

This is it, but the one I have came with the pin to use in the drill press...

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0006J4DO4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[A_Pmech]

To tap small holes with a tapping guide in a drill press as you intend the best way would be with a tap wrench such as a Starrett #93. It has a center in the back of the wrench body which you can engage with the spring loaded point of the tap guide.

Taps over 1/4" can be used with a Starrett #91 and the tapping guide engaged with the tap's own center.

Edit: nehog posted exactly that while I was typing.

 

[machine_punk]

Thanks for the quick responses, everyone!

 

[larry_g]

One thing that will get you in trouble with that tool is that you have to maintain the spindle center concentric to the drilled hole. In a milling machine you drill the hole, lower the knee and insert the tapping center and the tape handle then tap the hole. With a drill press you will have trouble maintaining the spindle/hole concentricity so that the tap starts straight into the hole. It is not a problem in a lathe also.

I have one of these, http://usaknifemaker.com/piloted-tap-wrench.html , that I use as my goto tap the kind of work your doing.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Trucky]

I would have to agree with Larry on this one, a tap wrench with a sort of a dowel as a guide would be the best option with a drill press. For a full fledged mill I wouldn't have a problem using a spring loaded tap guide (I use the one from Enco, slightly improved via high grit sandpaper and boredom. Also, oil the heck out of it...).

I wish the one he had linked wasn't out of stock. I currently have a Starrett 93C and it is absolutely wonderful but I'd like a pin-guided one as well to go with it.. I sense a good idea for Christmas presents..

 

[nine4gmc]

kinda on topic, here is an old Tap-Top drill press tap adapter handle(I think, anyone want to identify this thing?). It flash rusted once it hit our Louisiana humidity but you get the idea.

 

[Graham08]

I have one of these:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=5810005&PMAKA=325-4920

It serves the intended purpose well. I've used it in the drill press and lathe without issues. They also have a smaller version for #0 to 1/4" taps. I like that it does not require three hands to use, like it appears some of the spring loaded versions would.

 

[Packard V8]

MiGosh - $67.30 for basically just a tap wrench with a 1/4" pilot for holding in a DP. I'll be making my own one of these days soon using a $3.00 yard sale tap wrench.

jack vines

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I have one of these:

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=5810005&PMAKA=325-4920

It serves the intended purpose well. I've used it in the drill press and lathe without issues. They also have a smaller version for #0 to 1/4" taps. I like that it does not require three hands to use, like it appears some of the spring loaded versions would.

If the collet or chuck is gripping the top of this tap holder, don't you need the mill or drill to be in neutral in order to turn the tap handle?

I use the spring loaded thingy all the time and both my second and third hands sit there idly while my #1 hand does all the work. You do have to advance the quill for every 1/2" that the tap goes down.

I also have one of these. No spring, but the advantage is that it's easy to machine a new pilot to fit whatever collet I have in the mill. It makes it easy to pull the chuck and install the pilot.

 

[Graham08]

The chuck portion of mine rotates on a shaft (large, long dowel pin) that is gripped by the drill chuck. So, no the machine does not need to be in neutral to use it.

 

[Graham08]

MiGosh - $67.30 for basically just a tap wrench with a 1/4" pilot for holding in a DP. I'll be making my own one of these days soon using a $3.00 yard sale tap wrench.

jack vines

Wow! Didn't look at the price...I don't remember paying that much for mine.

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

The chuck portion of mine rotates on a shaft (large, long dowel pin) that is gripped by the drill chuck. So, no the machine does not need to be in neutral to use it.

So the quill needs to be loose for it to feed down?

 

[PT Doc]

So the quill needs to be loose for it to feed down?

My drill press can be down fed without it being on.

Why not just chuck up the tap and put in slowest speed and tap under power. You down feed and when it begins to catch you can shut it off and then feed by hand. This is the way I did it after a few hand taps and it is way easier and you know that you are centered if you just drilled the hole and switch to the tap in the chuck. It's much easier than you think.

 

[OccupantRJ]

In the mill, I simply power tap in back gear, down to around a #8 size. If it's a blind hole, I stop short and finish the threads later by hand. In the drill press, I chuck the tap, then use the chuck key to turn the chuck as the quill is lowered, just enough to insure the tap is started straight, then finish tapping by hand. Some chuck key shanks will fit the holes in a chuck to help with this method. If tapping something on a large project, I chuck a spiral pointed tap in the hand drill and have at it. That one takes a little nerve and skill, so if you are new to tapping, better practice on some scrap first. I had an on-site job to do once where I tapped over 3,000 1/4-20 holes through 3/8 plate using a drill like that. Bracing your body is essential.

 

[A_Pmech]

With a drill press you will have trouble maintaining the spindle/hole concentricity so that the tap starts straight into the hole.

True! I hadn't considered that. A light-duty drill press with a round column will lose center when moving the table. What a PITA!

I so rarely hand tap anymore and my small drill press has a knee and lots of quill travel. I'd entirely forgotten what it's like to try and tap on a light drill press.

+1 for the chuckable tap wrench.

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

My drill press can be down fed without it being on.

Why not just chuck up the tap and put in slowest speed and tap under power. You down feed and when it begins to catch you can shut it off and then feed by hand. This is the way I did it after a few hand taps and it is way easier and you know that you are centered if you just drilled the hole and switch to the tap in the chuck. It's much easier than you think.

You have no idea what I think or what I'm capable of. I've power tapped thousands of holes. I've also seen hundreds of parts get fucked up by some ***** that thinks everything should be power tapped. I've also seen drill chuck jaws ruined by spinning them on a hardened tap body.

I also have a Tapmatic that I can use for power tapping. I also have Cat-40 floating tap holders for the CNC.

I was asking Graham08 how his tap holder worked because I still fail to see a reason that it works any better than the many other methods that I've used. My drill presses can also be fed down without the power on, you either have to feed the quill with one hand, or pull against the return spring. I fail to see how that's convenient.

 

[JASTECH]

A_PMech, so instead of a round post that allows too much movement a square post should be used? I don't think hand tight of the lock will stop micro movements of work surface. I plan on useing a DP alot after 3 more surgeries so trying to learn from the experts.

 

[bobadame]

I use that Enco tap guide almost every day. You can use it for taps smaller than #10. Just grip the round body of the tap in the T handle. Tighten it with pliers. Been doing that for years.

 

[darkzero]

I also have the micro tap guide too. I also have this one that's listed as a spring center. I like the micro one better cause the other ones has more radial play. But I use it on the tailstock on the lathe.

How about these types?
http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?r=s&n=||UserSearch1%3Dtap+guide&q=block+id+229616+and+class+level3+id+30247

http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?...e&q=block+id+111539+and+class+level3+id+30247

Or a hand tapper if you tap by hand a lot:
http://www.google.com/search?q=hand...mKs23qAHn5YDACg&ved=0CGsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=437

 

[Trucky]

You have no idea what I think or what I'm capable of. I've power tapped thousands of holes. I've also seen hundreds of parts get fucked up by some ***** that thinks everything should be power tapped. I've also seen drill chuck jaws ruined by spinning them on a hardened tap body.

I also have a Tapmatic that I can use for power tapping. I also have Cat-40 floating tap holders for the CNC.

I was asking Graham08 how his tap holder worked because I still fail to see a reason that it works any better than the many other methods that I've used. My drill presses can also be fed down without the power on, you either have to feed the quill with one hand, or pull against the return spring. I fail to see how that's convenient.

Whoa there!

Now that we're all chill and whatnot, I do believe Graham's tap wrench/holder is allowed to travel on it's own because the dowel/locating pin (held by the chuck) isn't frictionally or physically held by the holder, it just acts as a pilot. I'm also under the belief that the dowel is of decent length and might be useful if the tap can absolutely not come off of center. (Obviously this set up won't hold any of the relevant diameters to a tenth down the whole thread, but it should be of decent accuracy)

Of course this is all from a tap wrench I have used previously that sounds exactly like what he's using. We had a few sets of pins (for use with longer/shorter taps) that allowed you to hand tap the whole way down without repositioning the spindle during the operation.

I'd love for him to chime in and correct me but I do believe I'm pretty close.

As for the whole advantage to using this over other methods, I can't find any. However, I don't see any apparent disadvantages as well.

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I also have the micro tap guide too. I also have this one that's listed as a spring center. I like the micro one better cause the other ones has more radial play. But I use it on the tailstock on the lathe.

How about these types?
http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?...e&q=block+id+229616+and+class+level3+id+30247

http://www.travers.com/skulist.asp?...e&q=block+id+111539+and+class+level3+id+30247

Or a hand tapper if you tap by hand a lot:
http://www.google.com/search?q=hand...mKs23qAHn5YDACg&ved=0CGsQsAQ&biw=1024&bih=437

One of my former employees purchased an Enco guide like the first one you listed. He ended up adding a bushing to it because of all the internal play.

As for the second item, just about every machinist I've worked with has some sort of a homemade version of this, very useful.

I have a FlexBar version of the third one you listed. I find it useful, but it doesn't clamp the taps as concentric as most of my other versions do.

I have a hand tapper stand I bought from a retired machinist. It was built by his father, so it must be at least 50 years old. It works very well on the many plastic parts that I have to make.

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

Whoa there!

Now that we're all chill and whatnot, I do believe Graham's tap wrench/holder is allowed to travel on it's own because the dowel/locating pin (held by the chuck) isn't frictionally or physically held by the holder, it just acts as a pilot. I'm also under the belief that the dowel is of decent length and might be useful if the tap can absolutely not come off of center. (Obviously this set up won't hold any of the relevant diameters to a tenth down the whole thread, but it should be of decent accuracy)

Of course this is all from a tap wrench I have used previously that sounds exactly like what he's using. We had a few sets of pins (for use with longer/shorter taps) that allowed you to hand tap the whole way down without repositioning the spindle during the operation.

I'd love for him to chime in and correct me but I do believe I'm pretty close.

As for the whole advantage to using this over other methods, I can't find any. However, I don't see any apparent disadvantages as well.

If the tap holder is sliding vertical on the shaft that's chucked, then it would be useful. I've looked at numerous links and I haven't seen a clear description on how this holder really works.

All in all, if I was starting out, I would buy a good t handle tap wrench (Starrett or General), then I would make a .75" thick block with clearance holes for the different taps I planned to use.

 

[larry_g]

If the tap holder is sliding vertical on the shaft that's chucked, then it would be useful. I've looked at numerous links and I haven't seen a clear description on how this holder really works.

.

That is exactly how some of them work, and the $13 dollar one I linked to is that way. I could not find the one I have. Mine is from Brownells gun supply and has a nicely bored hole in the body of the tap wrench and a dowel that fits the hole and gives ~2" of vertical movement. Not some thing I would want to use in production work but works good when you have to D&T a few holes.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[Nelson58]

I have a hand tapper stand I bought from a retired machinist. It was built by his father, so it must be at least 50 years old. It works very well on the many plastic parts that I have to make.

I bought one of these Chinese hand tapping machines from Enco or somewhere (maybe Harbor Freight) for about $89. Am I to assume it is only good enough for plastic, and not effective on steel or other metals?

Nelson

 

[Harvey Melvin Richards]

I bought one of these Chinese hand tapping machines from Enco or somewhere (maybe Harbor Freight) for about $89. Am I to assume it is only good enough for plastic, and not effective on steel or other metals?

Nelson

I also use mine on stainless steel and aluminum. A lot of the plastic parts we do are drilled on the drill press, so using the hand tapper stand is quick and easy.

The OP wanted a device to use in a drill press. I've never used a tap locating device on the DP, since I've always had other options available. For me, it always comes down to the fastest or easiest method that will get the precision that I need for a particular job.

On a related note, years ago I was using a t-handle to tap some 1/4-20 threads into the mild steel frame of my utility trailer. A friend of mine stopped by and was watching what I was doing. He'd never seen a t-handle before, and he said he always used an electric drill, and he wondered why he broke so many taps.

 

[lilredex]

That guided tap wrench Larry G references is currently availble from Busy Bee ($6.29) for any one that may want one.

http://www.busybeetools.com/products/TAP-WRENCH-PILOTED-SPINDLE-TYPE-1{47}16-1{47}4.html

There is also a larger version out there that also comes with a die (1") holder and fits the same stub shaft. Mine came from KBC, a while back, for around $16.....could not make it for that, so bought one.

Both units are made to be used in either a drill press or lathe, and both rotate on the shaft that is locked in the drill press chuck. Downward motion (or cranking the tail stock) advances the tap (or die) to get it started,

 

[Graham08]

So the quill needs to be loose for it to feed down?

No, the tap wrench rotates and slides on the shaft that is gripped by the drill chuck. All the drill press does is ensure the tap wrench is square to the hole.

The tap wrench comes as a kit, consisting of the tap chuck and two 1/4" rods about 6" or so long. The back of the tap chuck has a 1/4" hole where one of the rods is inserted, and can go in about 3" or so. This is gripped by the drill press, mill, lathe, etc. The tap chuck is also cross drilled for the second rod which is used as a handle to drive the chuck. As you tap, the tap chuck slides down the rod in the drill chuck, so you're not fighting the quill spring.

I'm not saying this is the best thing ever, but I have one and have used it quite a bit, especially when all I had was a drill press and a small lathe. Since I have upgraded my lathe, I power tap everything there.

 

[buening]

T
There is also a larger version out there that also comes with a die (1") holder and fits the same stub shaft. Mine came from KBC, a while back, for around $16.....could not make it for that, so bought one.

Like the one on the lower left here? http://www.kbctools.com/Can/PDF/c0830.pdf

 

[lilredex]

That is it...... a "-102". And, it came with the adaptor for 1" dia. dies too.

 

[buening]

It looks like they are cheaper in their latest catalog (page 132), the -102 is $13.40. No mention of the adaptor though. That would definitely be a bonus! They do have die holders on page 129 for about $10.

 

[Nelson58]

If the tap holder is sliding vertical on the shaft that's chucked, then it would be useful. I've looked at numerous links and I haven't seen a clear description on how this holder really works.

All in all, if I was starting out, I would buy a good t handle tap wrench (Starrett or General), then I would make a .75" thick block with clearance holes for the different taps I planned to use.

Always wanted to get one of those nice tapping heads for the drill press (have an old Enco and a SouthBend), but they are expensive, and I really wouldn't know which one to get anyway. Those are for when you have a lot of holes to do. I find as long as you go slow and use tapping fluid, you do fine.

Using a power drill? Are you serious? That's disaster. I wonder how many taps broke in the hole.

Nelson

 

[BWS]

We just use dbl ended dowels.

IOWs,take a pce of drill rod and turn its end down to fit the sq hole on tap handle.......for "that" particular tap.Its dble ended because other end has a different size on it.It ony takes four or five of these to pretty much cvr most of the taps we use.