Driver bit sets 1/4" hex - skips and upselling

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Been looking for a compact set recently and some of the product decisions have me scratching my head. They omit some quite mainstream things, yet include other relatively obscure things.

They must have some reasoning, and I presume this is the consequence of various trade-offs they're making as a business, and all of us having different needs. If I were to be cynical, I could suggest that some sets are intentionally handicapped in order to try and steer attentive buyers into larger or higher-grade sets.

Take a small set, it has hex in 3-4-5 but omits the 6mm. Perhaps it's aimed at use with a screwdriver only. Maybe I can buy the one extra bit, but hey good luck finding it listed and in stock anywhere that doesn't have a minimum item order quantity of 10 and a hefty delivery charge.

So let's look at the next size set up, only a little more expensive, which has 3x the bits and many duplicates of the most-used sizes. That does include the 6, but now omits the 3.

So let's look at one of the higher-grade sets (the closest one to my needs), well now this one has a few more repeats but doesn't include any hexes nor even a single slotted. There's a small hex-only set available, but it's disproportionately expensive, and almost as much as a similar set that includes the mini ratchet.

So let's look at the next more expensive grade. Finally, this has everything. And it looks like ok value compared to cobbling together multiple sets and individual bits.

Many brands have the annoying skips thing, but the specific example above is Wera.

 

[Ohio Andy]

If you're primarily looking at bits, usually they have bit holders and you can just pull out whatever's there you don't want and drop in whatever you do want.

On the other hand, I really like it when the bit holders actually tell you what bit it is, but then if you start replacing bits they don't match.

And yes, that is something I always liked about Tekton. Usually not a lot of skips. I will admit I have a lot of their bets, but it's not the first company I think of when I think about bits. For sure I own more PB Swiss bits than Tekton bits.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

If you're primarily looking at bits, usually they have bit holders and you can just pull out whatever's there you don't want and drop in whatever you do want.

Yes, also by removing excess duplicates.

On the other hand, I really like it when the bit holders actually tell you what bit it is, but then if you start replacing bits they don't match.

It looks neat, and I imagine it's most useful for Torx given there's so many sizes close together. Everything else it's easier to eyeball, at least at my age.

For sure I own more PB Swiss bits than Tekton bits.

The PBs are excellent, I read. But while I can appreciate them as a tool, I wouldn't be able to appreciate the difference in use compared to other quality bits, certainly not enough to warrant the expense. The sets of 10 on a strip are very well thought out in terms of what's included. I'm planning to get a few empty BitBlock strips as they are also excellent compared to other options.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

Build (or modify) a kit to suit your needs.

From where I stand, 4 and 5mm hex are a must. 3 and 6mm hex are nice to have, with 3mm having a higher importance over 6mm. Personally I don’t have a 6mm hex in any of my ‘universal’ kits. Only in my designated 1/4” drive kit and as part of the Snap-On Master Bit Set metric, which actually goes up from 2.5 to 10mm hex at 1/4” hex drive.

If you build metal fences, or regularly have to make way through them/ take out an element for access, here in Germany, your go to hex size is actually 5.5mm. Those come in almost? none of the universal kits. Still they are absolutely essential to many.

Similar applies to Torx 27. Important in automotive and small-engine/ yard care equipment repair. Only few universal sets actually cover Torx 27.

Then, again speaking of Germany, Torx 15, 20, 25 are the really important/ universal sizes. Torx 10, 30 & 40 are not unimportant but less needed/ universal - obviously depending on what you do.

A lot of this also depends on who your supplier is and what fastener sizes they cover within a single drive size. There has been a lot of merging going on when it comes to that, which is positive/ a good way forward. Still, some suppliers use the full range of available drive sizes with marginal to no benefit when it comes down to the properties of the actual fasteners. Some even have their own Torx/ star drive based designs, but are at least still drivable with the corresponding Torx drive bit.

I have & keep a lot of bits in the toolbox, but my universal kits have only what I know I need and what I most likely will encounter. And even though I have so many in my toolbox, I still sometimes come across something where I would need a drive size/ profile or shank style/ length I don’t have at hand. No way to cover that with a single universal kit, no matter how “complete” it would seem.

As far as duplicates go, they are a consumable. So if it’s not the universal/ if-I-need-it kit, but actually used everyday you’ll be happy to have more than one of the bit of the sizes you truly need.

I don’t think there is actually any planned upselling involved with these “universal” kits. It rather just comes down to what the designated target customer in the target market is most likely to encounter & trying to make it look like a good deal. As a manufacturer you gotta draw the line somewhere, especially knowing that customers who absolutely need certain drive sizes/ profiles will have them/ buy them anyway. A universal kit is just that.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[ChevyEFI]

Buy a cheap *** set with 100pcs of "near everything."

Buy a quality organized set with a little room for extensions, ratchet, and add a few things. Carry that. Move cheapies to it as needed. Move a duplicate over to the cheapie set. You'll have what you need and carry less fluff.

The 100pc HF set, a few impact bit sets from Bosch, a few Apex bulk bits from Epstein, Malco magnetic hex screw drivers, a 106FLIPSET, and recently, a Titan ratchet and I cover a lot of ground with a couple Bosch boxes plus a cheapie set.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Build (or modify) a kit to suit your needs.

Yes, this is what I'm doing now. Unsurprisingly due to economics, it's cheaper to buy a bigger set (with stuff you'll never need) and cut it down, than to add even less than a handful of bits to a smaller set. So it's a bit wasteful.

I don’t think there is actually any planned upselling involved with these “universal” kits. It rather just comes down to what the designated target customer in the target market is most likely to encounter & trying to make it look like a good deal. As a manufacturer you gotta draw the line somewhere, especially knowing that customers who absolutely need certain drive sizes/ profiles will have them/ buy them anyway.

Agreed. But I wouldn't put it past them to have profiled customer types and have "a plan" for what products to steer them towards. For example, homestead owner which does minor repairs on small equipment and cars, appliance repair, wood and sheet metal construction, and bicycle maintenance. Then they may think I should buy a driver bit set plus one of the bit/socket sets that includes a bit ratchet.

That said, I'd like to see Wera's logic for only including hex 4 & 5mm 4-5-6 (and not 3) in the Bit-Check Metal 1, despite it including 3x of every PH & PZ sizes, and all TX sizes 10-40 except 27.

 

[Nobody-named-Olli]

The probably boring answer to that will be that PH and PZ ultimately wear out/down the fastest. If there is more logic behind it? I doubt it. You can always e-mail them and ask, they are very communicative and I’m sure they will reply.

When I look up the current contents of that Metal 1 Bit-Check, it comes at least with a 6mm hex (now?).

https://hybris-media.wera.de/download/pdfgenerator-datasheets/de/05057440001.pdf

Have you seen this variant: https://hybris-media.wera.de/download/pdfgenerator-datasheets/de/05073640001.pdf

Hex 3 to 8mm, Torx 10 - 40, includes ratchet.

Quite a few of the different “Tool-Check” variants also include Hex 3 to 6 (8)mm.

Kind regards,
Olli

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

When I look up the current contents of that Metal 1 Bit-Check, it comes at least with a 6mm hex (now?).

Sorry, my typo - I had it right in my original post. They include 4-5-6 but not 3.

And I agree with you that 3 is more important than 6. It looks like Wera agrees too when it comes to the 12 piece, as they include 3-4-5 in that one.

Have you seen this variant: https://hybris-media.wera.de/download/pdfgenerator-datasheets/de/05073640001.pdf

Hex 3 to 8mm, Torx 10 - 40, includes ratchet.

Quite a few of the different “Tool-Check” variants also include Hex 3 to 6 (8)mm.

Yes, but quite a price gap and I don't need the bit ratchet.

 

[bwringer]

Perhaps one factor is that there's little prayer of removing 6mm fasteners with a handheld bit driver (these are usually M8 threads), so bit driver sets might only include the smaller sizes.

Most of what I work on is Japanese brand motorcycles, so pretty much all the sizes 1.5mm and larger are essential, up to at least H19.

And yes, skips make me crazy, although there are sizes that pretty much don't exist in hex socket fasteners, although there always seem to be exceptions.

The "real" answer is that it's likely down to availability, price, and most of all what looks good enough on the shelf to sell in testing. How many of us have a collection of crappy impractical Craftsman "Dad Tools" sold to clueless kids, aunts, and wives around Christmas time?

Why ze Germans felt they had to use T27 in places where everyone else uses T25 and it works perfectly well, I'll never quite understand. I'm really wondering whether Stihl was deliberately trying to keep people out of their equipment. T27 is common nowadays, but it is also incredibly annoying that so many sets leave out T27.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Perhaps one factor is that there's little prayer of removing 6mm fasteners with a handheld bit driver (these are usually M8 threads), so bit driver sets might only include the smaller sizes.

Yes, I did speculate in my opening post that was the logical reason for its omission from the 12 piece set. But for the 30 piece they did the opposite.

Why ze Germans felt they had to use T27 in places where everyone else uses T25 and it works perfectly well, I'll never quite understand. I'm really wondering whether Stihl was deliberately trying to keep people out of their equipment. T27 is common nowadays, but it is also incredibly annoying that so many sets leave out T27.

As I understand it, dissuading people from doing their own work on equipment was one original motivation for Torx adoption, and then the same again for security Torx.

The guy who did the Torx standards posted here about the reason for T27:

T27 was developed because there was too big a jump between the T25 and T30 and the recesses were not big enough to drive the large screws and too big to fit into the heads of the smaller ones.

Looking at the Wikipedia page:

• T25 15.9 - max 15.9-19 Nm, 3.95mm point to point distance
• T27 22.5 - 22.5-26.9 Nm, 4.5mm
• T30 31.1 - 31.1-37.4 Nm, 5.1mm

 

[Dave455]

It’s very difficult to cater for differing job requirements when making sets. Not only that, but there are differences in different parts of the world too.

I have some sympathy with the manufacturers here, and I think Wera do better than most, offering sets of bits that differ according to purpose, and even sets they describe as “metric” and “imperial” to cater for different markets (as best they can).

The only solution is to do as you are and make up your own set. Yes, buying bits individually is hopelessly uneconomic. The best solution is to buy them in 10’s or 20’s, certainly in the popular sizes. It’s a bigger expense at first, but what price do you put on always having spares to hand? Or on not having them…?

For mobile storage it’s hard to beat these small compartment boxes. Fill them as needed.


For bench use, the traditional block of wood works well.


The Wera sets are a good way to start, and I find the selection of bits included to be sensible, but it’s important to look at the website and choose a set appropriate to your needs.

The BC 30 set I find to be good to carry around, as it includes just about everything I might encounter day to day. I have spares of most of these in my stores though, so it’s no problem to swap a couple if needed.


Wera sell their bits quite sensibly. Popular ones tend to be in boxes of 20, less popular in 10’s, and so on.

With regard to PB Swiss bits, the biggest factor governing whether I use them is the quality of the fastener. If it’s a good quality screw with a well fitting head, I’ll generally go for PB Swiss. They stand up incredibly well under repeated use, and provided that use is correct (i.e C6 bits with hand tools only) they last so long I don’t really consider them a consumable.

For general use, particularly on woodscrews of varying quality, I usually use the Wera, although most often I’m using an impact driver with dedicated impact bits, so these are only a backup.

 

[Jgaz]

As I understand it, dissuading people from doing their own work on equipment was one original motivation for Torx adoption, and then the same again for security Torx.

Maybe dissuading people was a minor reason but in my automotive experience the biggest reason was that the Torx is much easier to power drive at the factory without fastener head damage.

GM used a lot of chrome wheel well opening moldings in the late 70’s and early 80’s. These moldings were secured using pozidrive screws that I’m sure were power driven.
When the bit slipped and damaged the plating on the screw head, these fasteners started to rust on Michigan’s salted roads.
I couldn’t guess how many (hundreds) screws I replaced under warranty because of the rust.

Your security torx screws were just for that, security.
There was a time you could open up a steering column and remove the ignition switch.
Replace the switch with one for which you had a key and drive off with no damage to the column.
These screws only worked for a short time before everyone had the security Torx bits.

 

[YesIHaveAHammer]

Maybe dissuading people was a minor reason

Your security torx screws were just for that, security.

Or to put it more generally, "tampering". For whatever reason, someone wants to make it difficult for someone else to open a fastener.

Same story again with Pentalobe by Apple, drivers for it now widely and cheaply available.

the biggest reason was that the Torx is much easier to power drive at the factory without fastener head damage.

Yes. My comment was specifically about adoption, and admittedly speculative.

 

[richfinn]

I still think this set is very well designed

1/4" bit socket set, 31 pieces, PICO, Flexible Head Ratchet | FACOM

www.facom.com

The ratchet/extension and 1/4" square drive adapter are all great and the selection of bits is pretty decent.

Like most things from Facom the storage box design is so good it actually makes the kit nice to use.

Obviously upgradable/ripe for custom loadouts with your choice of bits (P B Swiss are great, colour coded and corrosion resistant)

 

[merkyworks]

Coghlans law, bit sets are for the weak.