Driveway Fabric???

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Digging into some of the preliminary planning of my shop build and have a question on driveway construction.

Has anyone hand experience with a driveway fabric under their base material?
We are on yellow sand and I want to build a drive that I won't be buying stone every 3 years as the sand ***** it down.

I have seen this type of product used on industrial sites, but have no experience using it myself.

Driveway Fabric - Products - US Fabrics

US Fabrics Driveway Fabric helps prevent ruts and greatly reduces the need to replace the majority of the rock surface of your driveway every few years.

www.usfabricsinc.com

First MFG that I found on a search.

My drive will be 100' long from the road to the shop and around 70' wide.

 

[jack stand]

Well worth it!!!
A big roll is about the cost of 1 1/2 tri axle loads and you'll save that right off and every year there after.

 

[WillyBoy]

Umm.... Before anyone else stops by, perhaps that's a typo.
A 70 foot wide driveway is close to the width of a 7 lane highway. Is that what you really mean?
I don't know anything about the fabric, sorry.

 

[Innovate1]

Fabric was used for the drive to our detached garage build a couple years ago. Our soil is a good amount of clay and virtually no rock. It very hard when dry but soft when damp. Repeated traffic will turn it into a soupy mess. The fabric did help a lot. But the tire lanes pushed down a lot and the center did not - think the center came up a little. Ended up with very little gravel over the fabric in the middle and deep over the tire tracks. Looking at having it paved this year and when they scrape off the top few inches of gravel, weeds, etc for prep I won't be surprised if they hit the fabric in the middle. Not sure how to avoid that and the fabric definitely helped with our conditions. Seems like the squish out would be less with sand.

 

[Mytoolsupply]

It works pretty good I've used my fair share of it, what kind of traffic will the driveway see?

 

[mike93lx]

Umm.... Before anyone else stops by, perhaps that's a typo.
A 70 foot wide driveway is close to the width of a 7 lane highway. Is that what you really mean?
I don't know anything about the fabric, sorry.

Its really a burnout pad.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Umm.... Before anyone else stops by, perhaps that's a typo.
A 70 foot wide driveway is close to the width of a 7 lane highway. Is that what you really mean?
I don't know anything about the fabric, sorry.

Yes, will be the width of the building + wide enough to park a gooseneck and flatbed trailer next to the building.
I want the ability to pull in and turn around with the trailers, instead of backing off the road.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

It works pretty good I've used my fair share of it, what kind of traffic will the driveway see?

Typical farm traffic.
Tractor, trucks, trailers (Dump truck & occasional Semi)

 

[Firebrick43]

Good heavy fabric is amazing. Dad and I built a logging road for a neighbor and he was going to build a house back in the woods afterwards.

We found the ground in spots to be absolute swamp/muck and the drive held up.

Since where he thought he wanted a house turned out to be a wet hole after the logging skidded collapsed the soil structure the owner had someone actually scoop the stone off the fabric and used it on another property a few years afterwards.

It does not allow one to build a substandard drive. It prevents mud/sand pumping and spreads out the load some but a thin layer of stone on top isn’t going to spread out the load sufficiently enough, that is what an 8” thick plus sub base is for depending on the weight of the vehicles. 12” if you have heavier trucks on it.

A layer of number 2 crushed stone (1.5”-2”) , a layer of 53 crush stone (1.25” a fines) , and then your desired top layer such as number 8 (clean 3/4 minus stone) or 73’s (3/4” to fines).

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Good heavy fabric is amazing. Dad and I built a logging road for a neighbor and he was going to build a house back in the woods afterwards.

We found the ground in spots to be absolute swamp/muck and the drive held up.

Since where he thought he wanted a house turned out to be a wet hole after the logging skidded collapsed the soil structure the owner had someone actually scoop the stone off the fabric and used it on another property a few years afterwards.

It does not allow one to build a substandard drive. It prevents mud/sand pumping and spreads out the load some but a thin layer of stone on top isn’t going to spread out the load sufficiently enough, that is what an 8” thick plus sub base is for depending on the weight of the vehicles. 12” if you have heavier trucks on it.

A layer of number 2 crushed stone (1.5”-2”) , a layer of 53 crush stone (1.25” a fines) , and then your desired top layer such as number 8 (clean 3/4 minus stone) or 73’s (3/4” to fines).

I'm looking at using 6-8" of graded slag for the driveway top surface. https://duraberm.com/
And depending on another piece of the puzzle, potentially some ground concrete as the base layer on top of the fabric. 6-8"

The ground concrete is enticing due to the fines and the binding nature they have to help disperse those heavier loads.

Heavy trucks won't be often.

Looks like it will run me around $900 for two rolls of fabric. 15' x 360' per conversation with USFabrics.com

 

[Firebrick43]

I'm looking at using 6-8" of graded slag for the driveway top surface. https://duraberm.com/
And depending on another piece of the puzzle, potentially some ground concrete as the base layer on top of the fabric. 6-8"

The ground concrete is enticing due to the fines and the binding nature they have to help disperse those heavier loads.

Heavy trucks won't be often.

Looks like it will run me around $900 for two rolls of fabric. 15' x 360' per conversation with USFabrics.com

From experience I hate ground concrete. The fines hold tons of water and do not pack anything like limestone fines. Plus I have found steel rebar and wire in it. I won’t use it anymore.

We have a Nucor plant just a few miles south of here that sells duraberm. (Whiteville) The top coatings are ok, little coarse but if I didn’t have limestone nearby for $40 dollars a load more I would use it.

The durabase packs in very well and makes a solid base however it’s poorly graded and you will get a lot of 5-6” stones. If you put it in with a large vibrating roller they work out but if you just pack it in by driving it in those large stones will stick up and make a rough surface. Some times one will stick up enough though the top layer that you will catch it when plowing snow or grading the drive and pull the stone out creating a hole. Then you have to get off and manually mess with the offending stone and material it pulled with it.

My dad hated the stuff because of that he stopped doing maintenance grading of drives for customers with his No 12 if they had durabase

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

From experience I hate ground concrete. The fines hold tons of water and do not pack anything like limestone fines. Plus I have found steel rebar and wire in it. I won’t use it anymore.

We have a Nucor plant just a few miles south of here that sells duraberm. (Whiteville) The top coatings are ok, little coarse but if I didn’t have limestone nearby for $40 dollars a load more I would use it.

The durabase packs in very well and makes a solid base however it’s poorly graded and you will get a lot of 5-6” stones. If you put it in with a large vibrating roller they work out but if you just pack it in by driving it in those large stones will stick up and make a rough surface. Some times one will stick up enough though the top layer that you will catch it when plowing snow or grading the drive and pull the stone out creating a hole. Then you have to get off and manually mess with the offending stone and material it pulled with it.

My dad hated the stuff because of that he stopped doing maintenance grading of drives for customers with his No 12 if they had durabase

I have yet to price limestone, it is 2-3 times farther away which will add ALOT of time and expense to the hauling.
I went in on a dump truck with 2 others and will be doing my own hauling for the project.

Part of my puzzle is I am demo'ing an existing foundation and pad, so I need somewhere for that concrete to go. I am still waiting for the contractor close by to give me a quotation on grinding/processing that concrete. It may or may not be financially feasible.

 

[Firebrick43]

I have yet to price limestone, it is 2-3 times farther away which will add ALOT of time and expense to the hauling.
I went in on a dump truck with 2 others and will be doing my own hauling for the project.

Hauling is the majority of the price of aggregate!

Part of my puzzle is I am demo'ing an existing foundation and pad, so I need somewhere for that concrete to go. I am still waiting for the contractor close by to give me a quotation on grinding/processing that concrete. It may or may not be financially feasible.

From my experience it will not be but there are some mini crusher plants that are going from job site to job site now so maybe.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Hauling is the majority of the price of aggregate!

From my experience it will not be but there are some mini crusher plants that are going from job site to job site now so maybe.

It is a mobile plant that this contractor has, so I'm hopeful they are priced right.

 

[Bert_]

I've seen fabric used a few times. Seems like in 10 years there are spots where it ends up on the surface and gets torn.

When I've seen it used they also tried to just start with small rock instead of putting down ~3" first like you should.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I've seen fabric used a few times. Seems like in 10 years there are spots where it ends up on the surface and gets torn.

When I've seen it used they also tried to just start with small rock instead of putting down ~3" first like you should.

Manufacture recommendation is to not use larger aggregate on the fabric.

I will have 10”+ above the fabric so I doubt it will ever work thru.

 

[Bert_]

10" is a lot of rock. Hope it works. I have seen trucks and equipment dig ruts in small rock over fabric.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

I’ve used this fabric twice. First was for a paved stone driveway to my backyard garage it has been close to 10 years and all paving stone is like it was just done.
At the lake we installed it for all driveway, gravel and paving stone installations. Everything will remain stable as I dislike doing things twice. Wish we would have used it on our front yard that again for paved stone, but that was 15+ years ago and never even thought about it. It wasn’t a thing back then.

 

[Stick-man]

I have like 9 rolls of 13' wide I didn't use. I am in mid south TN and ended up my road to my shop was such hard pack clay, I could barely cut it with my skid steer. Now to sell those rolls I will never use. LOL

 

[Milton Shaw]

Fabric was used for the drive to our detached garage build a couple years ago. Our soil is a good amount of clay and virtually no rock. It very hard when dry but soft when damp. Repeated traffic will turn it into a soupy mess. The fabric did help a lot. But the tire lanes pushed down a lot and the center did not - think the center came up a little. Ended up with very little gravel over the fabric in the middle and deep over the tire tracks. Looking at having it paved this year and when they scrape off the top few inches of gravel, weeds, etc for prep I won't be surprised if they hit the fabric in the middle. Not sure how to avoid that and the fabric definitely helped with our conditions. Seems like the squish out would be less with sand.

To keep it level you need to run a tricycle farm tractor up and down it. Maybe pull a full with roller or packer down the drive too.

 

[partsguy5768]

Digging into some of the preliminary planning of my shop build and have a question on driveway construction.

Has anyone hand experience with a driveway fabric under their base material?
We are on yellow sand and I want to build a drive that I won't be buying stone every 3 years as the sand ***** it down.

I have seen this type of product used on industrial sites, but have no experience using it myself.

Driveway Fabric - Products - US Fabrics

US Fabrics Driveway Fabric helps prevent ruts and greatly reduces the need to replace the majority of the rock surface of your driveway every few years.

www.usfabricsinc.com

First MFG that I found on a search.

My drive will be 100' long from the road to the shop and around 70' wide.

We use all the time in oregon. Especially when wet. Cuts down on needed rock. Works well.

 

[Bert_]

...and all paving stone is like it was just done.

What do you mean by that? The rock hasn't packed down?

 

[NUTTSGT]

I have yet to price limestone, it is 2-3 times farther away which will add ALOT of time and expense to the hauling.
I went in on a dump truck with 2 others and will be doing my own hauling for the project.

Part of my puzzle is I am demo'ing an existing foundation and pad, so I need somewhere for that concrete to go. I am still waiting for the contractor close by to give me a quotation on grinding/processing that concrete. It may or may not be financially feasible.

Check with the quarry about setting up an account. You may be able to get it cheaper.

 

[Miss the Pontiacs]

What do you mean by that? The rock hasn't packed down?

No it hasn’t moved or shifted and remains at the original set level. My front yard where it meets the sidewalk has to raised from time to time to maintain level. Mind you probably hasn’t been done for 10 years.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

I have like 9 rolls of 13' wide I didn't use. I am in mid south TN and ended up my road to my shop was such hard pack clay, I could barely cut it with my skid steer. Now to sell those rolls I will never use. LOL

Wish you were closer, I would take some of those, but I'm in MI and that's along drive.

 

[67CarGuy]

I have like 9 rolls of 13' wide I didn't use. I am in mid south TN and ended up my road to my shop was such hard pack clay, I could barely cut it with my skid steer. Now to sell those rolls I will never use. LOL

Wish you were closer, I would take some of those, but I'm in MI and that's along drive.

@Stick-man I've got relatives around Murfreesboro, what are the chances we can move some of those rolls north for you?

I could use a roll or three myself, so between me & @NWOhioChevyGuy we could probably reduce your inventory somewhat...

 

[Jeepster04]

The fabric shouldn't replace anything, but it can reduce the amount of base and prolong the road.

I know our labeling of rock differ's, but you should still use a good base of #2 rock then top those with DGA. The fabric keeps the #2 rock from just sinking over time, it doesnt really replace anything. You shouldn't need as much base with the fabric though.

 

[jack stand]

So.... it does replace the amount of base but we don't count that?
Just messing with ya, but your right in that it doesn't replace any of the "layers".

 

[JKinAK]

Don’t forget to do the sides too. You are isolating your expensive materials from the native dirt.

And for those who describe rock rutting/tracking: use more rock, use crushed rock, and compact in lifts under 2’.

The type and amount of rock vary based on underlying soils and depth of freezing. Look at what your local DOT does… use the materials they use. In areas with freezing issues you may need to excavate to the same depth they do… on feeder roads. Ask to review plans in your area for roads built on similar soils. The sheets showing road x-section details are a great place to find specs that give you that “buy once, cry once” feeling.

 

[kmcc927]

Yes on fabric, don’t forget to figure in the overlap needed. Generally 2-3’. For the base I‘d start with 5-6” of 1X3 limestone, crushed concrete ok if cheaper. For the surface 4-6” of 6A limestone is best or MDOT 21AA limestone. Don’t consider cc unless it meets MDOT spec. With 21AA you will have tracking for a while and twice as much tracking with commercial 21AA.
For 100X70 figure 155t of 1X3 and 135t of 21. Take advantage of being in Michigan and consider getting it delivered in 50t loads. Cheaper delivered pricing from a trucking company. YMMV

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

If you have driven on Michigan roads, you know that I plan to do nothing like the state does in construction......

Material costs will be driving what is going to be done, as I mentioned I will be hauling my own materials.
I am starting to see guys advertise some asphalt grindings, may have to go look at a few sources that are close enough.

 

[Dodgeboy2020]

I can attest to the benifits of using the fabric as long as it's properly installed initially. When we built our house the soil was cut out about 12 to 15" (some places more to eliminate the topsoil as it was a farm field), fabric laid down and then filled in with 3" minus material as I recall. I was talking with the mason contractor as they were working on the foundation and he asked if we had done fabric under the driveway and I said we had. He smiled as he had initally been concerned about losing concrete trucks in the driveway but it held firm due in large part to the fabric not allowing the stone to press down into the clay layer below it. After a year between construction and just time to let everything settle (not much of that except right by the garage excavation and even that was limited as only stone was used as backfill along the front of the garages) we had the concrete put down and they didn't have much adjustment to do to the base prior to placing the concrete. I was/am so confident in everything that a couple weeks after the last of the concrete had been placed I had no hesitation driving fully loaded quad axle dump trucks across it all.

So short answer to the question is YES if there's any doubt use fabric as long as it's covered properly. As others have said a) the cost for the fabric is almost negligable at the time of construction and b) its not like you can decide in a couple years to 'upgrade' to having the fabric in after struggling with the rutting and other issues that can arise from not using it cost effectivly

 

[snakeeyes]

We use the geotextile fabric where I work on all the roads and even gravel laydown areas for storage to help stabilize the ground. You could also look into a geogrid. https://www.tensarcorp.com/solutions/geogrids/interax-geogrids Geogrids work great but cost a lot so i would suggest the fabric.

You will probably not have access do "duraberm" specifically, since that is a specific product coming from a steel mills with Levy/Whitesville who process their slag. You can look for processed "slag". If you are near a steel mill then the typically will sell the slag cheap since it is a byproduct that they need to get rid of and they don't want it pilling up taking space. Caution on the slag it will set up after a few good rains and get hard kind of like concrete. Stuff lasts but can be hard to regrade/rework easily.

Give the federal governments documents on dirt/gravel roads a look. Tells you what you need for geotextile and best practices as far as overlap and coverage above the textile.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/pubs/ots15002.pdf

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

We use the geotextile fabric where I work on all the roads and even gravel laydown areas for storage to help stabilize the ground. You could also look into a geogrid. https://www.tensarcorp.com/solutions/geogrids/interax-geogrids Geogrids work great but cost a lot so i would suggest the fabric.

You will probably not have access do "duraberm" specifically, since that is a specific product coming from a steel mills with Levy/Whitesville who process their slag. You can look for processed "slag". If you are near a steel mill then the typically will sell the slag cheap since it is a byproduct that they need to get rid of and they don't want it pilling up taking space. Caution on the slag it will set up after a few good rains and get hard kind of like concrete. Stuff lasts but can be hard to regrade/rework easily.

Give the federal governments documents on dirt/gravel roads a look. Tells you what you need for geotextile and best practices as far as overlap and coverage above the textile.

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/construction/pubs/ots15002.pdf

Duraberm is available at a Steel Mill 22 miles from our house.

I have some slag on part of my existing house driveway, from before the processing plant went in that now produces the processed Duraberm. This original slag product, which had no fines moves around significantly. I'm hoping the Duraberm does not as much. Not having teen drivers that take the curves like a dirt track has helped, but it still needs top dressed.

 

[Stick-man]

@Stick-man I've got relatives around Murfreesboro, what are the chances we can move some of those rolls north for you?

I could use a roll or three myself, so between me & @NWOhioChevyGuy we could probably reduce your inventory somewhat...

I am just south of murfreesboro. Sounds like a plan!