Driveway gate layout, feedback needed

[red92s]

We are starting to plan out our next big home project, addition of a driveway gate. This would totally enclose our back yard, containing the dog, and increasing security.

Fences and gates in our area are predominantly the dog ear privacy fence style, as it the rest of our back yard, so we are hoping to stick with that.

Our driveway is 15' wide, at the point where the trash cans are below. The dirt strip alongside the house is ~40" wide. This has been converted to a path/walkway since the photos were taken. We use our back door as the primary door, so we need to have easy access. The plan is to erect this fence just beyond the large tree to the left of the photo. This will give us enough room to park one occasionally driven car inside the fence, and leave the daily drivers outside in the driveway.

I'm hoping to keep the walk gate portion 36" wide or more (same as a standard entry door). Hopefully this will make it easy to get lawnmowers, wheelbarrows, trash cars, and double strollers through.

We'd likely make both portion of the drive gate hinged, so that in the event we need to get large things in our out of the back yard it can be done easily. Right now I've got the two drive gate portions split unevenly. 7.5' (what they'd be if split evenly) is a bit narrow to be driving through easily. I'm hoping to keep the drive gates able to swing both directions. I need them to swing out at the moment, but if we ever add a garage and extend the driveway they could swing in.

CAD predicts the gates will weight the following amounts when complete with pickets:
Small Drive Gate: 125 pounds
Large Drive Gate: 175 pounds
Walk Gate: 75 pounds

Posts are 2.5' deep in concrete. Big ones are 4x4x.25, latch post for the walk gate is 4x2x.188. Gate frames are 1.5x1.5x.120.

Walk Gate Hinges: http://www.locinox.com/ENU/products/default.aspx#/3DM&pid=7661&cat=8360

Drive Gate Hines: http://www.locinox.com/ENU/products/default.aspx#/BEARING HINGE&pid=7652&cat=8360

Drop rod for small drive gate: http://www.locinox.com/ENU/products/default.aspx#/VSA / VSF&pid=7882&cat=8356

Walk gate lock/latch (keyed to match house): http://www.locinox.com/ENU/products/default.aspx#/H-METAL&pid=8128&cat=9818

Does this look like a reasonable way to approach this? Any and all feedback and criticism is appreciated.

Rear View (backyard side)

Front View (street side)

 

[ilovevocs]

If you use round bar and tube for the hinge. If you miter the tubes on a 45 you can create a hinge that will center the gate. I have images and details that I will dig up if your interested. The images are readily accessible so I will post them up.

 

[jerryd68]

If you use round bar and tube for the hinge. If you miter the tubes on a 45 you can create a hinge that will center the gate. I have images and details that I will dig up if your interested. The images are readily accessible so I will post them up.

I would also be interesed in the images, as I also have a gate to build.

 

[ilovevocs]

This is a fairly common detail even for large heavy gates. I have designed gates that use a tapered spindle and bearings as they have to resist the lateral and rotational loads but I feel their overkill.

 

[ilovevocs]

 

[jerryd68]

What material have you used? 1/2" black pipe and 3/8" rod?

 

[jerryd68]

This pic is shown with the gate in the closed position?

 

[red92s]

I've thought about building my own hinges, or using the basic (and inexpensive) weld on barrel hinges. I just worry that, being fairly green at this, my posts won't be quite plumb, my gates won't be quite square, etc. I'd like to have the ability to adjust them a bit in several planes to compensate for all the fabrication and installation tolerances, as well as any movement over time.

 

[Dale1962]

I would put a wheel on each gate. I think over time they tend to sag (kinda like my ex) also relieves pressure on the gate post. heres one http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/gate-wheel?cm_vc=-10005

 

[red92s]

I would put a wheel on each gate. I think over time they tend to sag (kinda like my ex) also relieves pressure on the gate post. heres one http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/store/gate-wheel?cm_vc=-10005

This seems to be a pretty common suggestion, but just as common is people saying "if you build it right you will never need a wheel!". It obviously takes a lot of load out of the gate posts, but it also makes it harder to open and close, particularly if you want to use an opener. Having adjustment in the hinges is also beneficial here as well.

 

[Dale1962]

very true red92s. I was just thinking of my farming days. yes im another dumb farmer

 

[koditten]

Here are mine. Looks kinda similar to what you have in mind. My gates are just 2" x 2", 14 gauge tube steel. The dog ear panels are bolted to the metal frame I made. They have been up 4 years and are not sagging.

I should have taken a pic or 2 of the hinge setup. The part that goes into the 4 x 4's is adjustable. The rings on the frame of the gates are just 3/4" washers welded to the tube frame. I can adjust the gates as needed.

Because the gates "rest" against each other, there is very little strain on the hinges and post when closed. When open I have blocks that the gates sit on to relieve the strain.

My acces gate has no latch. There is a spring that keeps the gate in the closed position.

I made the gate height a bit on the high side. i wanted to be able to use the gate if we had a significant amount of snow, without haveing to shovel the snow first.

Please, no jokes about the "c" clamp. It works

KO

KO

 

[Kevin54]

For your gate post, I would step up in size to a 6"x6" post.

 

[koditten]

I would second that. I see a small amount of warping on the 4 x 4's. I'm betting they outlast me though.

I really had intentions to use 4 x 4 tube steel, but I worried about those rusting out. The treated posts ended up working fine....and I had a **** load of them laying around anyways.

KO

 

[kbs2244]

Dig your post holes at least 4 feet. 6 is better.

Reverse your diagonals.
You want the strain to be pushing lower on the post instead pulling at the top. Remember you are working with a long lever.
You want the strain to be as near the center of the post as possible.

 

[bullnerd]

"Please, no jokes about the "c" clamp."

Your c clamp is so fat.....

I think you guys are talking about two different things, Kodittens is wood, hes using metal tube.

 

[Kevin54]

Dig your post holes at least 4 feet. 6 is better.

Reverse your diagonals.
You want the strain to be pushing lower on the post instead pulling at the top. Remember you are working with a long lever.
You want the strain to be as near the center of the post as possible.

I may be wrong, but I was under the assumption that you wanted the gate to hang, and therefore be pulled from the top. If it was reversed, the gate would be pushing at the bottom.

If you take away the solid tube brace and replaced it with a steel cable and turnbuckle, you would want it coming from the top down to the opposite corner to "pull" it back up when adjusting. I wouldn't think it any different than with using a steel tube.

 

[koditten]

Yes, the diagram is correct. In place of a solid, diagonal piece, I would use threaded rod with a turnbuckle. I intended to do this with mine, but have seen no noticable sagging to require them.

KO

 

[red92s]

Reverse your diagonals.
You want the strain to be pushing lower on the post instead pulling at the top. Remember you are working with a long lever.
You want the strain to be as near the center of the post as possible.

I agree that they "look" backwards but I put some research into running them that way. The force seen by the hinges and post does not depend on which way the diagonal runs. Long, slender, tubes are stronger in tension than in compression. This is an often debated topic in some of the gate information I've dug up. General consensus seems to be with tubular diagonals, put them in tension. With lumber, put them in compression, as the hardware at the joints in under less stress that way.

I would second that. I see a small amount of warping on the 4 x 4's. I'm betting they outlast me though.

Note that I'm using 4x4 STEEL posts, .25" wall. Not PT lumber.

 

[CNGsaves]

Best solution for you OP . . . . buy a trailer from KOditten . . .
. . . . AND . . . .
. . . . . . . give him your measurements for welding the gate frames !!!

Strongest solution would be square steel posts on each end and avoid wood posts altogether.

KO will just have to "up his game" and design a slide rod that goes into ground to lock the gate in place (in the middle). That C-clamp is getting lonely out there!! . .

 

[Jack Olsen]

Know that somebody, sooner or later, is going to put his weight on the thing when it's swinging. To that end, a wheel on each gate would help matters, even if it's suspended 1/2" in the air under normal circumstances.

The threaded L-shaped hinge bases are somewhat adjustable.

 

[koditten]

In my defese, I had just come off of a total knee replacement. That job took me all day ( I had to sneak around so the wife wouldn't bust me). I would have finished up proper, but I just got tired out and the "C" clamp worked so good. My dog loved the fact that he could run the full acre. It took him all day to mark his territory, too.

Thanks for the plug CNG.

KO

 

[koditten]

Best solution for you OP . . . . buy a trailer from KOditten . . .
. . . . AND . . . .
. . . . . . . give him your measurements for welding the gate frames !!!

Strongest solution would be square steel posts on each end and avoid wood posts altogether.

KO will just have to "up his game" and design a slide rod that goes into ground to lock the gate in place (in the middle). That C-clamp is getting lonely out there!! . .

I just figured out your last line.

Yes it is getting lonely. Its mate lives in a nice, heated shop. All my clamps were purchased in pairs. Every time I grab the mate to that one, I think the same thing. Poor thing, living outside in the harsh, Michigan environment.

KO

 

[Hephaestus29]

Well here's my gate. It's 15 feet wide, I used to have a privacy net on it like tennis net but someone tried to break in one time so I took it down due to the fact that none of the neighbors could see in to see anyone back there. So for that reason I guess i'm glad I have a chain link gate.

I'm not sure where you live but if you get much snow you might want to consider how much clearance you have. I have about 2-3" inches of clearance & that's still not enough when we get a good snow. One of my biggest problems was the fact that I fixed it so that you could only open it one way, inward. Other than that I havn't had any problems with it. It's mounted on a treated 6x6 & when it's closed it sits on a brick to help keep it from sagging. You might benefit from wheels as previously stated.

 

[steel 35]

Mine has bird **** on it, not the white stuff; the welds a lot of concrete and the posts are measured in feet but its another project that may never be done.
OP looking at your drawings, Think about making your walk though Like trellis to help support both gates?

 

[Dale1962]

just a thought, why make 3 gates? make 1 side small for walk thru and other 1 longer

 

[Hephaestus29]

Only thing I see wrong with this hinge is: that someone could lift right up on the gate & take it off the hinges & have easy access to the back without much effort unless the gate is so heavy you can't lift it, but you could still use leverage. One hinge should be turned upside down to prevent this.

 

[kbs2244]

If your tube will not take the compression load the way you show it will work.

I take my hint for what works from the wire fence guys corner posts.
Their diagonals go from the top of the end post to the ground at the next post.

I have always considered a turnbuckle to be a fix for a bad install.
But the power companies sure do use them a lot.

But the real secret is a deep hole with well tamped fill in dirt.

 

[koditten]

If your tube will not take the compression load the way you show it will work.

I take my hint for what works from the wire fence guys corner posts.
Their diagonals go from the top of the end post to the ground at the next post.

I have always considered a turnbuckle to be a fix for a bad install.
But the power companies sure do use them a lot.

But the real secret is a deep hole with well tamped fill in dirt.

We are talking about gates, not fencing. Your are referencing the corners of a fence. Fencing does not have to battle gravity. The fence angle braces are to keep the fence corner from pulling in.

KO

 

[ilovevocs]

Only thing I see wrong with this hinge is: that someone could lift right up on the gate & take it off the hinges & have easy access to the back without much effort unless the gate is so heavy you can't lift it, but you could still use leverage. One hinge should be turned upside down to prevent this.

If you lock the gate the lock can be designed to limit vertical travel. These gates were for a dumpsters enclosure, And were not locked as if someone wants the garbage their welcome to it. The gate needs to rise up to accommodate the hinge design as the gate rotates. Flipping would cause it to bind because the door lifts up as the gate rotates. I understand the point your making and you are correct it could be lifted up, but IMHO rotating the hinge is not a viable solution.

 

[koditten]

Thats kinda what I have insurance for. If someone wants to get in, I'm making it as easy as possible. Less likely they will **** up much **** while ripping me off. If they really want in, no gate is going to stop them.

It would take 2 pretty stout guys to lift my gate halves off the pins. They are welcome to do it.

I can understand your way of thinking. Around here is not too bad, some other places you might want to have more robust security.

 

[ilovevocs]

Thats kinda what I have insurance for. If someone wants to get in, I'm making it as easy as possible. Less likely they will **** up much **** while ripping me off. If they really want in, no gate is going to stop them.

It would take 2 pretty stout guys to lift my gate halves off the pins. They are welcome to do it.

I can understand your way of thinking. Around here is not too bad, some other places you might want to have more robust security.

I agree with you fully. Locks keep honest people out, buy not thieves. So often I see cars with thousands in body and interior damage because some low life wanted to steel a $250.00 head unit and hock it for $35.00. It's happened to me Personally, I would have taken the stuff out and left it on the driveway if I knew they were coming.

 

[red92s]

just a thought, why make 3 gates? make 1 side small for walk thru and other 1 longer

Mainly because one large gate would have such a large swing radius, I'd have to clear out everything in the driveway any time I wanted to open it.

I'm starting to think I might be better off just making the "big" gate 10' wide, and making the "small" gate a removable panel section. It's not often I'd need to get something wider than 10' back there, but in the event I wanted to I just just unbolt it with a bit of help. That way I'm only pouring money into a really beasty post and hinges for one gate, rather than two.

 

[koditten]

Thats what I thought. It seems I need to drive back there every day anymore.

I feel robbed. Your giving up. Its not fair. I thought you were made of some stouter stuff than that?

Later

KO

 

[Dale1962]

here you go lol, eliminate the swing problem http://secureaccessservices.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/raleigh-road-storage-3.jpg ok ok just joking

 

[koditten]

Thats awsome!!!

 

[steel 35]

Keep searching you will find just the gate that works for you here is another Idea, My advice 10' ***** backing a trailer around a corner, I know my shop door and gate are both too small.

 

[kbs2244]

There is an install around here where the guy used power poles, thicker than phone poles, to build a RR type swing up gate.
He counter weighted the main pole with some bolted on short pieces and the long part comes down into a fork made with two long side poles and a short on in the middle.
It sits right about headlight height.
It is remote controlled and electric powered.
But he is kind of cranky so I could never get any PICs.