Driveway ice mitigation

[Ohio Andy]

In Michigan, someone my dad knows who has money installed heating elements in his driveway.... But it's Michigan, so although they do get a fair amount of smell not compared to Alaska. Well, he accidentally left the heaters on and he realized it when he got a whopping Big Bill at the end of the month.

So not only do you have installation costs but it's expensive to run.

For small stuff, I use what I refer to as cement sand cuz you surely don't want to waste your time with regular sand. And you will still go broke if you have a really big driveway. Well and if you want to do the whole driveway.

 

[Metal-Marc]

Maybe better for you to figure out how to cope with what you can't fix.

It's one of those threads where OP wants the impossible done and will say no to every suggestion offered.

OP should buy skates and learn to skate.

 

[Mr. D]

Concrete with a radiant floor heating system, it only cost 100% more to go first class.

 

[Sumboodie]

Rock rake seems to be working well.

Has been crazy warm the last couple weeks, couple days in the low 40s even, so driveway was a rink.

Was able to run it around and scarify the ice/hard pack.

 

[BurtEggley]

depends what you want to accomplish. If wheels need to move use carbide cross bar chains that aren't worn out. The x's bite ice. If it is you that has slipping issues, that is a hard one because you need spikes or something, or learn to walk on ice (don't ask me how, I take falls on ice and that can be fatal for some people). If you are thinking just no more ice you could spend the money to concrete the area with radiant heating - or move to a warmed climate. That said, you'll burn a lot of natural gas to heat the glycol fluid that runs in tubes under the concrete if you go that route. Some guy posted a Utube the other day how he did his driveway.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Do you just a keep a bunch of salt and gravel on the front porch? I'm in the south and always wondered what people in the north do when you can't even step out on the front porch without busting your ***.

 

[DGersic]

Do you just a keep a bunch of salt and gravel on the front porch? I'm in the south and always wondered what people in the north do when you can't even step out on the front porch without busting your ***.

I try very hard to keep the front and back steps area clear, dry, and not iced. Have fallen and it hurt a lot to land on concrete. If there is any chance that precip has iced over the steps, I’m very careful going out. I have good balance and decent traction, and can generally navigate fine on ice if I know that it’s there. I fell when just walking out and hitting unexpected ice.

I keep a small bucket of salt in the garage (detached). I don’t use much of it, and don’t use it often, so a bag lasts several years.

Ice isn’t like the cartoon banana peel. You can walk on it, you just have to be more careful and mindful of where your weight is and the strength and need to use unusual muscles to keep your feet under that weight. You can even drive on ice, if needed, just have to be mindful of momentum and traction.

 

[jollygreengiant]

I live in an area that has frequent dumpster of snow and colder weather but also frequent warmer periods in the winter where it gets abive freezing and will often rain.

IMO, the biggest thing to prevent ice is to remove snow promptly and properly. Lots of people like to leave snow if they can drive through it as "it's only a little bit". The problem is, driving and walking on that snow will pack it down, and then it usually melts a bit during the day when it warms up or the sun hits it but then freezes again at night. The result is a layer of hard pack snow on your driveway that has a nice top layer of ice that is very slick. If you want to avoid this you have to clear the snow before you drive on it. Even when plowing snow, don't drive anywhere with your snow removal machine that you haven't cleared yet.

I use this method with my gravel driveway as I also hate ice. We got 2-3" on Christmas eve, I plowed snow but most of the neighbors didn't. Since then we've been a few degrees above freezing during the day and below freezing at night. My driveway is well over 50% bare gravel, my neighbors who didn't plow have hard packed slick driveways.

But once you have ice your options are limited. Either salt/sand to melt it, or a mechanical method such as a scarifier as mentioned above will also work. After that, really all you are left with is using heat to melt it. Using a flame weeder would work for a small walkway but not a driveway. I would think black tarps would work if you get some sunny days and don't need to drive over it for a while.

 

[msharley]

I'd rather not melt it, it'll be a muddy mess.

Plus salt will track into the house, in vehicles, doggo feets, etc.

If the yard was paved it would make more sense. But I'm not Daddy Warbucks and paying to pave it. Would probably be 6 figures!

With pets...?

Best not to use CaCl...as it is harmful to their paws...

Plus? It will rust anything "iron" that it lands on (think of it being slung off your tire into the wheel well of your vehicles)

A seven foot back drag blade on the tractor (can be had used) will pull the snow off...BEFORE it becomes a sheet of ice...

 

[Sumboodie]

I try very hard to keep the front and back steps area clear, dry, and not iced. Have fallen and it hurt a lot to land on concrete. If there is any chance that precip has iced over the steps, I’m very careful going out. I have good balance and decent traction, and can generally navigate fine on ice if I know that it’s there. I fell when just walking out and hitting unexpected ice.

I keep a small bucket of salt in the garage (detached). I don’t use much of it, and don’t use it often, so a bag lasts several years.

Ice isn’t like the cartoon banana peel. You can walk on it, you just have to be more careful and mindful of where your weight is and the strength and need to use unusual muscles to keep your feet under that weight. You can even drive on ice, if needed, just have to be mindful of momentum and traction.

It's usually the surprise slick as snot off a chicken's lip spots that'll get a person.

Walked on a spot last winter while circling a truck for pre trip and I was laying on my side before I even had time to react.

Knocked the wind right out of me. Couldn't lay on that side for several weeks from the bruises. Got checked out at urgent care for my head too as I conked it pretty hard and I was have trouble seeing straight.
Plus had a prior TBI.

 

[Sumboodie]

I live in an area that has frequent dumpster of snow and colder weather but also frequent warmer periods in the winter where it gets abive freezing and will often rain.

IMO, the biggest thing to prevent ice is to remove snow promptly and properly. Lots of people like to leave snow if they can drive through it as "it's only a little bit". The problem is, driving and walking on that snow will pack it down, and then it usually melts a bit during the day when it warms up or the sun hits it but then freezes again at night. The result is a layer of hard pack snow on your driveway that has a nice top layer of ice that is very slick. If you want to avoid this you have to clear the snow before you drive on it. Even when plowing snow, don't drive anywhere with your snow removal machine that you haven't cleared yet.

I use this method with my gravel driveway as I also hate ice. We got 2-3" on Christmas eve, I plowed snow but most of the neighbors didn't. Since then we've been a few degrees above freezing during the day and below freezing at night. My driveway is well over 50% bare gravel, my neighbors who didn't plow have hard packed slick driveways.

But once you have ice your options are limited. Either salt/sand to melt it, or a mechanical method such as a scarifier as mentioned above will also work. After that, really all you are left with is using heat to melt it. Using a flame weeder would work for a small walkway but not a driveway. I would think black tarps would work if you get some sunny days and don't need to drive over it for a while.

It's near impossible to scrape it down right to gravel unless it was very flat and smooth... like pavement.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

If you burn wood, the ash is also good as an anti-slip on ice.

 

[Ohio Andy]

If you burn wood, the ash is also good as an anti-slip on ice.

Ash, wood shavings or sawdust (of a woodworker), concrete sand (not the sandbox fine sand)...

 

[Sumboodie]

If you burn wood, the ash is also good as an anti-slip on ice.

Makes a mess though.

 

[Sumboodie]

Ash, wood shavings or sawdust (of a woodworker), concrete sand (not the sandbox fine sand)...

Sawdust is slippery on ice.

I have plenty from my firewood processor.

 

[Hobby_Man22]

I try very hard to keep the front and back steps area clear, dry, and not iced. Have fallen and it hurt a lot to land on concrete. If there is any chance that precip has iced over the steps, I’m very careful going out. I have good balance and decent traction, and can generally navigate fine on ice if I know that it’s there. I fell when just walking out and hitting unexpected ice.

I keep a small bucket of salt in the garage (detached). I don’t use much of it, and don’t use it often, so a bag lasts several years.

Ice isn’t like the cartoon banana peel. You can walk on it, you just have to be more careful and mindful of where your weight is and the strength and need to use unusual muscles to keep your feet under that weight. You can even drive on ice, if needed, just have to be mindful of momentum and traction.

Ice on the front porch is like a once every two year thing in Texas. I suppose if it's a regular thing, you probably get in the habit of always cautiously walking out the front door even if it's the middle of July.

 

[Greg9504]

Sourcing and storing sand and salt

I have 10 yards of sand/salt mix delivered at a time, I put down a large white tarp (colour probably isn't too important) before it's dumped. I have the driver dump it on the tarp, then fold the tarp over the pile. The tarp is large enough that I have two layers of tarp covering the pile. I use old brake rotors to hold the tarp down. The sand stays dry and does not freeze, the pile stays dry even through summer.

I spread it using a Air-flo mini sander meant for a tailgate. It does **** shoveling sand into it, I usually fill it up, then fill another 5 or so 5 gallon buckets and put those in the front bucket of the loader, once I run out, I dump the 5 gallon buckets into the hopper. This is enough to do a good sanding on a sloped 800m (2500ft) road 12' wide, wider in parts around a corner. There are other sanders you can get for a skidsteer that you can drive right into a pile of sand to fill, no shoveling.

Here's my setup

 

[Buckgnarly]

Do you just a keep a bunch of salt and gravel on the front porch? I'm in the south and always wondered what people in the north do when you can't even step out on the front porch without busting your ***.

Penguin walk is your friend up here in Winter.

 

[Copymutt]

I’m not gonna be much help, but I’ll be goofing around w/ mirrors here to melt an annoying driveway ice patch here in super sunny SW Co. this winter.

 

[PCustoms]

I’m not gonna be much help, but I’ll be goofing around w/ mirrors here to melt an annoying driveway ice patch here in super sunny SW Co. this winter.

I think you're supposed to use a giant magnifying glass...

 

[reader2580]

This winter and last have been quite warm. My walk behind snowblower will dig into the gravel when it isn't frozen on top. I have a snowblower for my Grasshopper diesel mower so I have been thinking about setting that up higher off the ground for gravel, and then using the walk behind for the first hundred feet that is paved.

 

[djbmw]

Do you just a keep a bunch of salt and gravel on the front porch? I'm in the south and always wondered what people in the north do when you can't even step out on the front porch without busting your ***.

We wear winter boots that are built for snow and ice. When it comes to ice, the soles of boots are embeded with a variety of materials that allows them to "bite" into the ice. My daily winter boots are made by Baffin and have Icepaw™ design pads that are impregnated with diamonds that bite into the ice.

Aside from that yes, most home owners have salt or a sand/salt mix in a bin with a scoop on the front porch, or in the garage... and many will have ice picks and scrapers.

 

[PCustoms]

My daily winter boots are made by Baffin and have Icepaw™ design pads that are impregnated with diamonds that bite into the ice.

That sounds like some pricey marketing BS.

Metal or carbide studs would have been fine, but diamonds are forever...

 

[djbmw]

That sounds like some pricey marketing BS.

Metal or carbide studs would have been fine, but diamonds are forever...

Ha! They work well though and will scratch the hell out of your hand if you try to "feel" them. They're industrial diamonds... the same that are used on diamond blade cutoff wheels and they certainly perform as claimed.

Ps - there's a lab in Toronto that tests the slip resistance of winter boots. Good data to have prior to your next buy http://www.ratemytreads.com

 

[Hobby_Man22]

Ha! They work well though and will scratch the hell out of your hand if you try to "feel" them. They're industrial diamonds... the same that are used on diamond blade cutoff wheels and they certainly perform as claimed.

Ps - there's a lab in Toronto that tests the slip resistance of winter boots. Good data to have prior to your next buy http://www.ratemytreads.com

I was hoping you could just pick one off each anniversary and give it to your wife

 

[Sumboodie]

I have 10 yards of sand/salt mix delivered at a time, I put down a large white tarp (colour probably isn't too important) before it's dumped. I have the driver dump it on the tarp, then fold the tarp over the pile. The tarp is large enough that I have two layers of tarp covering the pile. I use old brake rotors to hold the tarp down. The sand stays dry and does not freeze, the pile stays dry even through summer.

I spread it using a Air-flo mini sander meant for a tailgate. It does **** shoveling sand into it, I usually fill it up, then fill another 5 or so 5 gallon buckets and put those in the front bucket of the loader, once I run out, I dump the 5 gallon buckets into the hopper. This is enough to do a good sanding on a sloped 800m (2500ft) road 12' wide, wider in parts around a corner. There are other sanders you can get for a skidsteer that you can drive right into a pile of sand to fill, no shoveling.

Here's my setup

I'm surprised 10 yards covers a 1/2 mile road for a whole winter.

Ha! They work well though and will scratch the hell out of your hand if you try to "feel" them. They're industrial diamonds... the same that are used on diamond blade cutoff wheels and they certainly perform as claimed.

Ps - there's a lab in Toronto that tests the slip resistance of winter boots. Good data to have prior to your next buy http://www.ratemytreads.com

I was looking at some for work and most reviews felt they didn't help very much for the cost and limited availability.
Dunno.

I have Baffin Worhorse for winter at home and they do well. Work I just have some Carhardt boots. Gets to -60* but I'm in and out of buildings and the truck all day so usually don't get too cold.

My Danner Quarries are a death wish when cold. The soles get rock hard, to the point it's uncomfortable to walk. Even on "grippy" steel grating it's super slick.

 

[garfieldzzz]

If a star roller works on ice, any chance to get one Cambridge roller agricultural implement to adapt and run on the tracked loader? Would not kill the driveway and brakes the ice-maybe

 

[finn]

It's near impossible to scrape it down right to gravel unless it was very flat and smooth... like pavement.

And the gravel ends up on your lawn.

I’m a firm believer in building up a good base, so you don’t see the gravel until spring.

I see how that might not work in a milder climate that isn’t subject to relentless daily snowfalls, though.

 

[ATC]

Why won't a box blade with teeth, or a land plane work? Set the teeth about 1-2" below the box and rip through the ice.

 

[Sumboodie]

Would need 3, 4x the teeth.

 

[ATC]

Would need 3, 4x the teeth.

There are models with more teeth, or make it a simple welding project.

 

[jollygreengiant]

It's near impossible to scrape it down right to gravel unless it was very flat and smooth... like pavement.

Yes you do need a fairly flat surface to do this well. But any driveway surface should be smooth enough for this to work. Even on gravel you can set your skid shoes on the blade to get very close without digging into the gravel.

And the gravel ends up on your lawn.

I’m a firm believer in building up a good base, so you don’t see the gravel until spring.

I see how that might not work in a milder climate that isn’t subject to relentless daily snowfalls, though.

That is the way to go if you live in an area that gets cold and stays cold. But it doesn't work here where we get a lot of mild spells. Personally I'd prefer if it would just get cold and stay that way, but we deal with what we get.

Would need 3, 4x the teeth.

Just go over it multiple times in different directions.

 

[Sumboodie]

Yes you do need a fairly flat surface to do this well. But any driveway surface should be smooth enough for this to work. Even on gravel you can set your skid shoes on the blade to get very close without digging into the gravel.



That is the way to go if you live in an area that gets cold and stays cold. But it doesn't work here where we get a lot of mild spells. Personally I'd prefer if it would just get cold and stay that way, but we deal with what we get.



Just go over it multiple times in different directions.

No skid shoes, skid steer bucket.

 

[Sumboodie]

Just go over it multiple times in different directions.

A scratcher like I talked about, rock hound or Harley rake does it in one.

Rock hound seems to be working well.

I don't intend to spend half a day doing 3 or 4 passes all over the dooryard. It's probably 1/2 an acre that I plow and needs to be kept open. Need enough room to turn around with truck and trailer plus park vehicles, "lay down" area, etc.