Driveway problems..major "frost heave"

[hillbillypimpin]

had this driveway poured August of 2012...Has been a disaster, I have been to small claims court trying to collect for some other problems that came up with the pour..

Anyway, to add to the misery, this winter this has appeared...The driveway has risen 2"+.

I don't know what to do now. This is the entrance to a detached garage..6' back in the driveway the contractor buried a downspout from the house to run across under the driveway and drain in a lower spot..I guess disconnect that for this winter....Is this in any way salvageable or is the only answer tear out and repour?

 

[casetractorfarmer]

Mine heaves up like that in the winter and it goes back down in summer wouldent worry about it

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Thats comforting to know...Still doesnt seem right though

 

[Streetbu]

Too much water under the driveway. Are you in a low lying area that has drainage issues? How much stone was put down before the driveway was paved?

 

[bochnak]

Have the same issue except mine is about an 1". Had it poured 8/2013. I did not get a chance to finish channeling water away. Gravel base is 4-6" here IIRC.

 

[Hawkerpilot05]

I have a a cement slab poured seperate from the garage floor that goes out about 3' from the garage doors and then the asphalt driveway begins. These slabs were poured in 3 sections with 2 in front of the double car garage and 1 in front of the single car. When I bought the house, they had all sunk down about 1-2 inches. I had them mud jacked and raised back up. Now ever winter they rise 1-2 inches with the highest rise being on the slab that needed the most mud jacking. The problem is the water runs out of the garage and dams up against these in the winter. Really stinks. Not sure if the mud jacking is the reason or not.

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[Bondo]

I don't know what to do now. This is the entrance to a detached garage..6' back in the driveway the contractor buried a downspout from the house to run across under the driveway and drain in a lower spot..I guess disconnect that for this winter....Is this in any way salvageable or is the only answer tear out and repour?

Ayuh,... It sounds like a poorly designed, poorly graded, poorly drained Sub-grade, 'n not necessarily the drainage pipe passin' under the slab,...

 

[bczygan]

Water has got to go somewhere!

I like to make sure all buildings are on pads that raise them above surrounding grade and provide for positive drainage away from them.

The same goes for paving.

But just putting gravel under paving is NOT a solution. Gravel is porous and, like a french drain, is perfect for water storage, especially if surrounded by clay soils. You just made a swimming pool. Ready to become an ice skating rink in the winter.

Once you excavate the organic material and topsoil in preparation for paving, it is much better is to use a compacted base of limestone with fines to bring the grade to at least even with the surrounding soil. This creates a concrete like base to pour concrete upon. Water can't get in.

Joints between slabs could also be sealed with a backer board and an elastometric sealant to prevent water entry.

Shifting of slabs where one rises above the other indicates water is getting into some spaces and not others. The base should be evenly placed and compacted to prevent this.

And then the grassy areas need swales to direct water to a destination down slope.

Don't ask me about the 1/2" of solid ice my sidewalks have right now, because they are lower than surrounding grade. But then, I didn't design them.

Mud jacking, unless the entire area under the slab is grouted solid, allows a space for water to enter and freeze.

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Seeing as youre in Detroit I should have hired you when I did it bczygan.

I dont think he used any crushed stone...Sand, compacter, that was it. I only know this because my wife happened to snap photos with her camera to send showing updates..I blame myself, I should have been more proactive and knowledgeable.

Guess the answer is live with it until it gets worse.

 

[bczygan]

Seeing as youre in Detroit I should have hired you when I did it bczygan.

I dont think he used any crushed stone...Sand, compacter, that was it. I only know this because my wife happened to snap photos with her camera to send showing updates..I blame myself, I should have been more proactive and knowledgeable.

Guess the answer is live with it until it gets worse.

Where in Howell are you.

Family has a place in the Tri-lakes.

I don't like sand either, as it will accept water and I don't think it compacts as well. But the crushed limestone and fines is a very expensive solution, so everyone uses sand around this area. If you do, since most of this part of Michigan is predominately clay, you need to slope the clay base so water will escape, and provide drainage to an outlet point. Then the compacted sand base and paving. No one does this though. And you can't build a sand base up very high without a border to keep the edge in place.

A lot of jack leg contractors won't even use a base material or compact the sub base. They can generally get away with this since they are long gone and also, the slab rises and falls uniformly with freezing since they pour one monolithic pour and just strike joints. I have even seen many contractors who only remove the grass and place the concrete right on the topsoil.

Bill

 

[ConCretin]

While it's possible to make soils frost resistant, it's virtually impossible to make them frost proof. It's obviously too late to help hillbillypimpin but I always place exterior aprons or entry pads on at least 2" of rigid insulation. I extend it out 4' around the pad to keep the frost from getting in from the sides. Works great.

 

[hillbillypimpin]

Where in Howell are you.

Family has a place in the Tri-lakes.

I don't like sand either, as it will accept water and I don't think it compacts as well. But the crushed limestone and fines is a very expensive solution, so everyone uses sand around this area. If you do, since most of this part of Michigan is predominately clay, you need to slope the clay base so water will escape, and provide drainage to an outlet point. Then the compacted sand base and paving. No one does this though. And you can't build a sand base up very high without a border to keep the edge in place.

A lot of jack leg contractors won't even use a base material or compact the sub base. They can generally get away with this since they are long gone and also, the slab rises and falls uniformly with freezing since they pour one monolithic pour and just strike joints. I have even seen many contractors who only remove the grass and place the concrete right on the topsoil.

Bill

I am right in downtown not far off D19. I am pretty sure I found a jacked contractor..I am usually really good at picking people out, this guy pulled one right over me..I just got a small claims settlement for $1400 for a sidewalk I had ripped and replaced he F'd up on...Now this.

I feel embarrassed to say, but I trusted him, In hindsight, I found these pictures my wife texted when we were excited about the pour. You can see the base for yourself, as well as the drain and PVC pipe that runs underneath. The garage is just out of the picture on the right.

 

[Kev442]

I was getting a frost heave of almost 2" on my new concrete until I dug a channel about 20' away and laid some schedule 40 in there to let water drain. Even water pooling 20' away can lead to a frost heaved concrete pad, and my pad is on 4" of a kind of pea gravel.

 

[1938flatty]

I live in waterford. Not too far from you and need to do concrete work in the spring. Could I ask who the contractor was so I can stay away from them?

Thanks.

 

[jmarkwolf]

I'm in Pinckney and I think I got a sub-standard pave job as well. Waiting to see what it looks like in the spring.

Was it Action Asphalt?

 

[hillbillypimpin]

The contractor was a company called "Cape Concrete and Brick Paving" out of Pinckney...Owner was Jim Shermak. He comes across extremely well, calm, well spoken, professional, not car salesman like at all.

STAY AWAY! I won a $1200 small claims judgment as he totally f'd the walk way (was supposed to be dark red and came out pink) and really messed up our brick paver patio. The $1200 was to rip out/repour the walk way, and fix the patio. To his credit, he did come and rip out/fix the 17' (foot!) crack that jumped the joints further down the driveway.

This is some of his "work"..I was under the impression it was colored concrete..He used some sprinkle on stuff in a windstorm that got all over the uncolored part


After this whole mishap I bumped into a highschool buddy that does concrete on the side..He was terrific for the rip out/repour, and fixed the pavers as well. if you guys want PM me and I can give you his number, he really was a good guy and wished I would have used him all along.