Drop cord recs for welder

[isuhunter]

Looking at purchasing a 120/240V welder (Hobart 210 MVP or Miller 211) machine. My garage is 30' deep and 24' wide. I'm working on picking up all the other supplies right now.

Thinking of getting a 50' drop cord would be best to have. One for 110 and one for 220

• 240v service should I go 10/3 or 8/3 - I've been told both by multiple electricians. I'm confused though because the Hobart 210 manual says 14 AWG.
  
• 120v - 12 gauge up to 55' is what manual says

What brand of cords do you guys like?

 

[benjamintmiller]

The Hobart 210 manual says it draws 24A at 230V. An appropriate extension cord for this would be 10/3 cord. I would buy a 50' spool of 10/3 SJOOW cable and two ends and make the cord myself.

For 110, follow the manual and get a 12 gauge cord. I don't have any brand preferences, but I do prefer cords that have a flexible rubber jacket. The 'S' in SJOOW cable means it has a rubber EPDM outer jacket.

 

[DerekV]

Get the thickest (within reason) extension cords that you get get. It will help with the welder's performance and will greatly reduce/eliminate breaker tripping. I'd get 8/3 for the 240v extension and 10/3 for the 120v extension. I feel like 50ft is a good all-around size to have, but it can be a little cumbersome at times. Luckily it is not that much more to get two 25ft versions of each cord if you wish to keep things a little more manageable.

To be quite honest, the 120v 10/3 Harbor Freight extension cord seems pretty nice and the price is good, especially with a coupon. And the 25 footer for good measure.

For 240v, I purchased this over 2 years ago and it has been flawless. I highly recommend it. And the 25 footer for good measure.

Lastly, get the MM211 (if it's the newer inverter one) over the HH210MVP. I've owned both...kept the Miller. It's a LOT better in MANY ways, one of which being - while we're on the topic of extension cords - that it's more energy efficient = way more "flexible" with "questionable" power/extensions. If you're looking at a used transformer MM211, it's virtually the same as the Hobart minus a few things. In that case, get the Hobart. It's far from a bad machine. I won't beat this topic to death though. PM me if you have any questions.

Good luck and happy welding.

 

[bobcatdan]

For the times I need to move my 211 away from its normal spot, I have a 25' 220v extention cord that's sold right in the welder aisle at fleet farm. Same price as buying the heaviest 50' 110 cord, about $75. In the shop, I never see a reason to drop down to 110 and would only ues it if I didn't have access to 220.

 

[DerekV]

PS: not saying that it's difficult to make your own cords (because it's not at all), but it is cheaper and easier to buy the off-the-shelf ones that I linked.

 

[sberry]

The machine requires a 14. When you use this minimum size it requires a max of 30A breaker. With a 12 you can connect it to a 50A welder circuit. A 12 or better will help a pinch on the top end.
BTW, we have 120v and 240v.

 

[Ign]

Yep I've got a #8 prefab 25' extension cord. Worth it for the molded plug ends IMO, and wasn't much more spendy than assembling the components separately in which case you've got bulkier plugs/ends and are dealing w strain reliefs.

HOWEVER I recently ordered a second 25' extension cord for another machine; it was blue w the nifty lighted ends which I didn't care about but these were all I could find at the time. Just like everything else they've cheapened it up by using lesser insulation/jacketing. It was so goddamn stiff and difficult to work with that I returned it.

SO, unless someone knows of a truly quality 8/3 220V extension cord these days, making one yourself may be the best option. STOW is one place to start for good flexibility, durability and outdoor rated.

 

[sberry]

Won't make any difference about breaker trips, these machines don't trip 240 circuits, they will 120v if you turn them up.

 

[mike93lx]

why do you need both heavy 120v and 240v cords for your garage?

IMO, I would buy one nice 240v cord and use the adapter that comes with your welder at the plug end.

 

[isuhunter]

why do you need both heavy 120v and 240v cords for your garage?

IMO, I would buy one nice 240v cord and use the adapter that comes with your welder at the plug end.

One of my garages is only 120 service the other I have both.

I didn't realize the adapter would work on a extension cord?

 

[Ign]

One of my garages is only 120 service the other I have both.

I didn't realize the adapter would work on a extension cord?

The adapter just either gives you a basic 110V male plug or standard 220V 6-50P.

The cord must still have the appropriate female at the output end. IOW it's no different than plugging into the wall. A square peg won't fit in a round hole and 110 won't fit 220 and vice-versa

There's a special threaded collar on the Hobart cord so no, you couldn't fit the adapter to the wall end of an extension cord.

 

[isuhunter]

There's a special threaded collar on the Hobart cord so no, you couldn't fit the adapter to the wall end of an extension cord.

That is what I recall seeing on both welders.

 

[DerekV]

Won't make any difference about breaker trips, these machines don't trip 240 circuits, they will 120v if you turn them up.

You say this as if I've never used either machine...

You're right in that it is very unlikely that they'll trip a properly-sized/spec'd 240v breaker, but it doesn't mean it can't happen. It doesn't mean that someone out there isn't going to run one of these off a crusty old dryer receptacle with a homemade NEMA 10-30P to 6-50R pigtail and extension that's fabricobbled from stuff laying around the house.

My personal opinion with electrical stuff is go big, especially with high-load items. Less voltage drop on the top end of the output, which will affect performance, especially on something that doesn't have circuitry to stabilize output with input voltage fluctuations (aka the Hobart).

Plus, how many times does one want to buy an extension cord? Buying bigger (in terms of AWG) will future-proof yourself for bigger tools. In line with the "buy once cry once" mantra. But hey, I understand that's not for everyone.

OP: you asked for insight and opinions - there's mine.

 

[L.Cheapo]

I use a 50' 10/3 gauge FlexZilla extension for my Miller 211. Its every bit as awesome as their air hoses...and...made in the USA!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0163AKLK4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

I paid around $70 for it.

 

[Thumper68]

I'm in the make your own camp, mine is actually not a drop cord since it is hard wired at the disconnect, so no male connection. 40' of 6 gauge soow been in use for 25+ years in 5 different shops with no issues.

I have never had a store bought cord last half that long. When you make your own you know the quality of the components.

 

[sberry]

I have used both and know exactly what I am talking about. That machine wont trip a 30 on 240. Its circuit requirements are 14 wire and it comes with a 14 cord. The 240 only models use a different cord, they use a 12 to allow them on a 50A circuit. Its the same cord used on a Stickmate which has a 48A draw at its max output. The only welders require a large cord which is number 8 are some of the 250 migs with high duty cycles and hi output, some of them will make 300A.

It doesn't mean that someone out there isn't going to run one of these off a crusty old dryer receptacle with a homemade NEMA 10-30P to 6-50R pigtail and extension that's fabricobbled from stuff laying around the house.

These circuits actually work well for that machine, they have a number 10 wire. A tailor made circuit for them is 10/30 but you can use a breaker to 50A
I should add a disclaimer, this applies to factory cord and plug supplied machines. Not ones requiring service larger than 50A.

 

[2oolhound]

Sometimes it pays to hang back and watch for sales. I don't make it into princess auto (HF) too often but when I do I stroll through the isles looking at sales. I got an 8ga x 3 with the glow ends, 25' for $45 cnd on sale. The 25's and 50's always come on sale a couple times a year but this was some special deal.

 

[sberry]

I agree the pricing is hard to beat considering the cost of parts. The reason they put a heavy cord on it is due to the 250's. It covers every machine in the class although all of them don't need it.
My old 255 allows for 10, single circuit in pipe. The allowance for 12 with the 225 buzzers is also in pipe. The 14 on the compacts the same way. No one really think the mins are a great idea as they need to be a size larger for cable and some of the devices are not listed for that small of wire anyway.
The older MV machines used to come user plug wired, they came 12 wire but the cords on the new MVP are 14. This is why they say not to cut off end but to use the proper adapter. There is built in protection to allow the smaller wire on 50A.

 

[DerekV]

I have used both and know exactly what I am talking about. That machine wont trip a 30 on 240. Its circuit requirements are 14 wire and it comes with a 14 cord. The 240 only models use a different cord, they use a 12 to allow them on a 50A circuit. Its the same cord used on a Stickmate which has a 48A draw at its max output. The only welders require a large cord which is number 8 are some of the 250 migs with high duty cycles and hi output, some of them will make 300A.
These circuits actually work well for that machine, they have a number 10 wire. A tailor made circuit for them is 10/30 but you can use a breaker to 50A
I should add a disclaimer, this applies to factory cord and plug supplied machines. Not ones requiring service larger than 50A.

[emoji848]

 

[jlipsky14]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B016P7SH60/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Almost made one then I found ones like this. Price has gone up a bit since I bought mine. It is the nicest, highest quality cord I have ever seen. Lights at both ends as well as a pivoting hook. No charge to put whatever info you want printed on to the cord as well if you wanted to put business info or something like that.

Also I would recommend the miller if you can find a good deal on one. I ended up with the hobart because thats what I got a good deal on when I needed it. I love it and performance wise its great but the little bit more money for the much less weight is worth it to me in a portable machine.

 

[Ign]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B016P7SH60/ref=ya_aw_oh_bia_dp?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Almost made one then I found ones like this. Price has gone up a bit since I bought mine. It is the nicest, highest quality cord I have ever seen. Lights at both ends as well as a pivoting hook. No charge to put whatever info you want printed on to the cord as well if you wanted to put business info or something like that.

Also I would recommend the miller if you can find a good deal on one. I ended up with the hobart because thats what I got a good deal on when I needed it. I love it and performance wise its great but the little bit more money for the much less weight is worth it to me in a portable machine.

I've never seen those. That looks nice. $75, hard to want to mess around w building one yourself.

 

[pistolpete1313]

According to this http://www.prioritywire.com/specs/SJOOW.pdf

You do need a minimum of 12 gauge. Remember you want the ampqcity of the wire larger than the breaker I'd go with the 10 and a 25 or 30a breaker.

 

[Ign]

According to this http://www.prioritywire.com/specs/SJOOW.pdf

You do need a minimum of 12 gauge. Remember you want the ampqcity of the wire larger than the breaker I'd go with the 10 and a 25 or 30a breaker.

You can de-rate for welders due to duty cycle. The performance of the machine may or may not suffer but you're gonna trip the thermal before the cord starts smoking. Esp on the little multi-voltage machines which are, what, 30%?

 

[sberry]

According to this http://www.prioritywire.com/specs/SJOOW.pdf

You do need a minimum of 12 gauge. Remember you want the ampqcity of the wire larger than the breaker I'd go with the 10 and a 25 or 30a breaker.

You can run that machine on a 12 wire and a 50A breaker. The small migs have thermal right after the switch. A.C. buzzers don't have any additional protection and they can run on 12/50

 

[sberry]

I never looked at a drawing for MVP to see what changes they made from the 240 only models but they changed the cord on them from 12 to 14 like they did on the little Maxstars.

 

[tdellenburg]

Based on 240 volts, 24 amps and 50 feet of cord:
10 AWG voltage drop is 3 volts
8 AWG voltage drop is 1.9 volts

Either cord should work fine considering you have a 6% tolerance, typically.

 

[L.Cheapo]

You can de-rate for welders due to duty cycle. The performance of the machine may or may not suffer but you're gonna trip the thermal before the cord starts smoking. Esp on the little multi-voltage machines which are, what, 30%?

At mid range amps, yes, about 30%. At the lower end, the 211 is 100% duty cycle on 110.

 

[Provincial]

A heavy cord is more important on the 120V circuit, since voltage drop is greater there. 120V welders are more affected by voltage drop than 240V models.

Many people blame the welder for poor performance when the issue is voltage drop.

On Edit: If at all possible, plug in the cord as close as possible to the circuit breaker. The wiring from the breaker to the plug will almost always be 12 gauge for a 20 amp breaker and 14 gauge for a 15 amp breaker. A 30 amp breaker will have 10 gauge wire.

By connecting close to the breaker, you will minimize the voltage drop to the welder, as long as your extension cord is heavier than the installed wiring.

 

[Ign]

At mid range amps, yes, about 30%. At the lower end, the 211 is 100% duty cycle on 110.

Yes of course. That's how duty cycles work. Conversely at higher outputs it won't give you the rated number. So when you're REALLY working it and pulling amps which = heat in the cord it's gonna shut down sooner.

Looks like the new inverter 211's are 40% at 150A.
https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/mig-gmaw/millermatic-211-mig-welder-m30024

That's cool. But again, if you're turned up to max power (which is where I tend to weld 99% of my stuff on these 200-amp class machines) you're NOT gonna be running 40% of the time before the machine says "I'm taking a nap."

 

[Ign]

A heavy cord is more important on the 120V circuit, since voltage drop is greater there. 120V welders are more affected by voltage drop than 240V models.

Many people blame the welder for poor performance when the issue is voltage drop.

On Edit: If at all possible, plug in the cord as close as possible to the circuit breaker. The wiring from the breaker to the plug will almost always be 12 gauge for a 20 amp breaker and 14 gauge for a 15 amp breaker. A 30 amp breaker will have 10 gauge wire.

By connecting close to the breaker, you will minimize the voltage drop to the welder, as long as your extension cord is heavier than the installed wiring.

Yep, the best thing I ever did for my 110 units is buy a 10ga Yellowjacket cord.

As my welder friend says, "Bitchy source voltage is a good way to punk yourself."

 

[sberry]

120 has always been a problem for welders. Those old ****** things were terrible. The Maxstar was really revolutionary as it allowed for real work from these circuits. The wire wasn't always such a problem but they run out of room with a 20A breaker in a hurry and always did need a dedicated circuit.
I have ran in to a couple deals with the max at about 200 ft on 20A, turn it up past 75 or so and it trips a breaker. I ran quite a bit of it on 100 ft and its not a problem, can turn up a 1/8 6011 or 3/32 lo/hy nice and toasty and run them as long as a guy feels like chucking them in the stinger. It would run 1/8 7018 I think on a 30, I have ran a few on 20 but it was marginal. I have tried to run 3/32 on 15 but it trips that. The wire really wasn't an issue. Bigger cant hurt though.

 

[isuhunter]

Here is my panel in the garage.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rcjoy]

Welder extension cord at cyberweld.com

http://store.cyberweld.com/230voexco25.html

 

[pstemari]

Whoops—didn't read to the end of the thread.

 

[dw1]

Looking at purchasing a 120/240V welder (Hobart 210 MVP or Miller 211) machine. My garage is 30' deep and 24' wide. I'm working on picking up all the other supplies right now.

Thinking of getting a 50' drop cord would be best to have. One for 110 and one for 220

• 240v service should I go 10/3 or 8/3 - I've been told both by multiple electricians. I'm confused though because the Hobart 210 manual says 14 AWG.
  
• 120v - 12 gauge up to 55' is what manual says

What brand of cords do you guys like?

Not sure of the layout of your 30 x 24, but what if you had a dedicated 240v circuit on 2 sides of your shop, welder has 6 1/2' power cord and then you have your welding leads, would that reach about anywhere you need to be? might be cheaper than a high dollar extension cord also? just another option if it would work and save you installation $$

 

[isuhunter]

Not sure of the layout of your 30 x 24, but what if you had a dedicated 240v circuit on 2 sides of your shop, welder has 6 1/2' power cord and then you have your welding leads, would that reach about anywhere you need to be? might be cheaper than a high dollar extension cord also? just another option if it would work and save you installation $$

Dw1 - good thought I should look at that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ign]

Welder extension cord at cyberweld.com

http://store.cyberweld.com/230voexco25.html

BEWARE! These are the ones that tend to be incredibly stiff. If that doesn't bother you, ok.

 

[bczygan]

Think about cords and outlet locations that will also reach outside.

 

[DerekV]

Yes of course. That's how duty cycles work. Conversely at higher outputs it won't give you the rated number. So when you're REALLY working it and pulling amps which = heat in the cord it's gonna shut down sooner.



Looks like the new inverter 211's are 40% at 150A.

https://www.millerwelds.com/equipment/welders/mig-gmaw/millermatic-211-mig-welder-m30024



That's cool. But again, if you're turned up to max power (which is where I tend to weld 99% of my stuff on these 200-amp class machines) you're NOT gonna be running 40% of the time before the machine says "I'm taking a nap."

I've pretty much maxed out my inverter 211 using .035 dual shield, welding more or less constantly for minutes at a time and no over temp light. I've done the same with solid wire spray (it will spray no problem) and no over temp light. Granted, it wasn't 40*C in my shop, but impressive nonetheless! For a machine this compact to have that much power is awesome.

I could never spray or use dual shield with the Hobart. Not nearly enough voltage up top.

 

[DerekV]

BEWARE! These are the ones that tend to be incredibly stiff. If that doesn't bother you, ok.

This is the same one that I linked from Harris, except Harris sells it cheaper.

It is definitely a little stiff, but it's a nice cord. Definitely durable.