Drum brake question

[burleymike]

The driver side rear was starting to act like the brake was dragging. If the pavement was wet the wheel would lock up if I was moving very slow (idle speed.) I pulled the wheel and drum off and can't see anything obvious except for a lot of brake dust. There was a pile on the bottom of the drum about 3/8" deep.

I put it in neutral and was able to spin the wheel around and it does not drag anymore. Is it possible all the dust was causing it to drag intermittently? Anything else to look for?

 

[NUTTSGT]

What's the condition of the shoes and wheel cylinder ? What about the adjustment ?

 

[burleymike]

Shoes look good, no grooves or uneven wear. The wheel cylinder is not leaking, what should I look for on the cylinder?

 

[NUTTSGT]

Leakage for one thing, which it is not. Is there an adjuster on the bottom between the shoes that can be run out ? How old are these shoes/drums ? Usually they were evenly and people don't realize they need replaced.

 

[wornoutoldman]

Can you move the pistons fore and aft in the bore? Often times they seize in the cylinder and wil not retract (causing the drag you mentioned) used to mean wheel cylinder rebuild time now likely cheaper to just replace it (them).

 

[BirdRacer]

I just repaired the same exact problem on my '97 F-150. My problem was the axle seal was leaking and the drum brakes on that side (right) grabbed and locked like crazy. Seemed much worse when damp out too. I'm sure you would have noticed something like this though. My shoes and everything in there was covered in gear oil.

 

[holdover]

If taking the dust out fixes it you are good to go BUT if it still has the problem like this , if it spins freely when jacked up, there is no gear oil present, the shoe profile matches the drum, there is no leak out of the wheel cylinder, everything should work OK, unless the axel bearing is worn excessively so when weight is put on the axel, the shoe/drum interface is no longer concentric, in 50 yrs of working on vehicles happened only a few times, usually you will hear the bad axel bearing but sometimes not.

 

[Ign]

Yeah I'd guess wheel cylinder issue. They don't have to be leaking to create a problem. Depending upon vehicle probably under $15 part, it's the time that can be high. Some axles (like Ford 8.8) you can fit a new cylinder in there without removing the shoes and all springs.

 

[Gary S]

I'd agree that it likely is a leaking wheel cylinder or axle seal. Carefully inspect the brake shoes for a drop or two of oil on it somewhere. A drop or two is all it takes to lock the wheel.
The last time I had this situation, mine was a leaking axle seal, and when I pulled the drum, I found only one drop of oil on the brake shoe. I replaced the seal and bearing, and cleaned the brake shoe with brake cleaner, and it never locked up again.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Wonder if he might have weak hardware allowing the shoes to come on too easy.
Or what about the other side, maybe the wheel cylinder is frozen on the other side.
Might have to end up doing a full brake job, new shoes, hardware wheel cylinders, and machine the drums.
Adjust both sides evenly.
Thanks,
Tony

 

[formek]

The other thing I did not see mentioned is check the other side If that wheel cylinder is frozen it will cause all the pressure to go to the side you have locking up

 

[willysrule]

what vehicle? that might help if it's something that has happened to more than just yours....

 

[burleymike]

I pulled the wheel on the other side and it was dragging a little just not as bad as the other one. This one had a lot of brake dust but nothing like the driver side. After backing the adjustment off on both of them they both spun nicely. I then had my wife push on the brake pedal a few times.

Both wheels were dragging after she hit the pedal a few times. The springs are rusty and the wheel cylinders have a lot of surface rust on them too. Considering the plug wires are dated 1993 I bet the brake parts are also original.

The shoes have about 3/16" of material on them and are worn evenly. Should I go ahead and replace them as well?

After I got done with the passenger side I went to stand up and my back went out. I am tempted to just take it to a shop. What would a ballpark price do to a brake job be? I think it was pulling the wheel off that twisted my back the wrong way.

Thanks for the help guys.

 

[burleymike]

what vehicle? that might help if it's something that has happened to more than just yours....

Sorry about that it is a 1993 F150. Now it looks like I am losing my mind, I really thought I put the make/model in my original post.

 

[Gary S]

After adjusting them and having your wife hit the brakes, you say that both sides are dragging. Are they dragging really bad so they are difficult to turn, or are they just touching the drums so they still turn fairly easily? The self adjusters should reset the brake shoes up close to the drums, and there will be light dragging when they are right. However, they should not get tight to the point that they heat up the drums badly when driven.
If they overtighten, your rusty springs might be the problem. You can get a complete set of new springs and small brake hardware cheap at any auto parts store, and if the problem is the brake springs, that will solve it.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Did you check the wheel cylinders real good?
Get a screwdriver and try to push in on the pistons on each end of the wheel cylinders.
Fords were pretty good for having locked up wheel cylinders.
Tony

 

[formek]

After I got done with the passenger side I went to stand up and my back went out...... I think it was pulling the wheel off that twisted my back the wrong way.

Thanks for the help guys.

Sorry to hear that! no fun trying to do this stuff with a bad back

 

[treasureseeker]

Check to see if the parking brake is on. Even if it is released inside the vehicle the cable hang up and that would give you the symptoms you describe.

 

[robin1731]

Check to see if the parking brake is on. Even if it is released inside the vehicle the cable hang up and that would give you the symptoms you describe.

Thats what I was thinking. You should use the parking brake daily. If not and then you use it after a year or so it can then not retract fully. The cables get dirty and rusty.

 

[1320stang]

I just replaced a leaky cylinder on a '90 F150, the adjuster was locked up and the cable was broke. Dunno if one caused the other.

 

[rocklobster]

Check to see if the parking brake is on. Even if it is released inside the vehicle the cable hang up and that would give you the symptoms you describe.

I second this recommendation.

A few years back I had the drivers rear break drum heating up really bad on my 1989 Toyota 4x4 pickup, the problem was that the parking break linkage cable that connected the 2 bellcrank's had broken causing the adjustment of the shoes to be tight to the drum.
As a side note I could not find a replacement cable for the life of me so I made one out of 2 links of chain and tack welded each end of the chain to the bellcranks to hold the chain in place (I could have also used twisted aviation wire).

 

[burleymike]

I don't think it is the parking brake, that thought did crossed my mind as well. After backing the adjusters off I set the parking brake and released it. The drag only came back after pushing on the service brakes a couple times.

I think I will try replacing the springs first and see if it makes any improvement. I will also disconnect the parking brake cables to rule that out for sure.

Thanks again for all the ideas.

 

[burleymike]

My back is finally feeling good enough that tonight I got back to my truck. I got the springs on passenger side replaced. The old springs definitely were not as strong as the new ones.

I am almost certain all the parts are original. The shoe hold down pin was rusted so bad it was less than half of it's original thickness in a couple spots.

After removing the shoes I checked out the wheel cylinder really well and it was fine. I think the old worn out springs were causing the shoes to drag which would explain all the dust.

Thanks for all the advice, you guys are the best.

 

[JohnnyAtomic]

the wifes car was doing something similar, I made sure the shoes were backed off enough so they were not touching or near the drum, even though most my old cars required them to be almost touching the drum. rusty springs can be an issue. I always go with new springs whenever old ones are rusty, bent, or dont put up a fight to take on or off. and they are cheap anyways. so I would readjust the shoes and the ebrake and hopefully that helps

 

[mech.reclined]

What about the hoses??? No one ever remembers this as part of the whole system that fails.Brake hoses swell up internally,causing shoes to drag.Heres how we test for this:
Roll each wheel and have someone apply brakes.If they drag after being released,crack open the brake bleeder.If they release,its the hose-if not its the wheel cylinder.
Easy test.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

What about the hoses??? No one ever remembers this as part of the whole system that fails.Brake hoses swell up internally,causing shoes to drag.Heres how we test for this:
Roll each wheel and have someone apply brakes.If they drag after being released,crack open the brake bleeder.If they release,its the hose-if not its the wheel cylinder.
Easy test.

Yeah, good point, used to see that a lot on the smaller dodge products,
like the Neon.
I thought of that for this ford, but I think on this one there is just one rubber brake hose, and that would affect both rear wheels.
Yeah, when there restricted, they act like a one way valve, there is so much pressure the brakes have no trouble being applied, but when you release them, the fluid cant come back through the hose.
Thanks,
Tony

 

[mrbreezeet1]

Did you ever come up with anything on this?
Thanks,
Tony