Drum brake tool set - what should I get?

[pendragon1998]

I have a 4runner with some rear drum brakes that have been neglected far too long. The bellcranks on both wheels are frozen up completely and the parking brake doesn't do a thing. The other day, the brakes started acting up while driving: when you push on the brake, the truck will slow down, but slowly; it feels like you're going downhill with a heavy load that's too much for the brakes to handle. I bled the brakes and I don't think there is a brake fluid or vacuum leak, or a problem with the booster, so I'm kind of stumped.

Anyway, I'm planning to take a look at the drum brakes. I've worked on the front disc brakes, but I haven't worked on drum brakes before. I'm not sure the drums are the culprit behind the most recent braking problem, but I know for a fact the parking brake and bellcranks need to be fixed, so I'm starting with that.

What tools should I get to work on the drum brakes? From what I'm reading, I need the following specialty tools (I want decent, made in USA tools, but I can't afford Snap-on prices):


Brake spring pliers - Are the Craftsmans good / still made in USA? (the pic says USA, the comments say otherwise)

Brake spoon / brake adjuster tool
Brake spring tool

Or would the Lisle one be ok?

and a couple of M8-1.25 bolts to help pop a stubborn drum off:

...And I already have a Motive power bleeder, which I like pretty well.

Am I missing anything? Are there better made-in-USA brands than Craftsman at roughly the same price-point?

 

[NC-Fordguy]

I have a crafty brake spring plier that's around 30 years old. Still works fine. Not sure if they are still USA sourced.

I have a couple old wizard brand(western auto house brand I think) brake spoons that are just as old. Different bends/angles on each of the spoons for different applications.

Any of your above posted tools should work fine

 

[Outlawmws]

The brake spring tool is already on the ends of the spring pliers, so that is redundant. The Shoe Spring tool with the plastic handle is a nice to have. You can do the same with Lineman's pliers pretty easily.

I think the key is the Spring Pliers and spoon. I've done Drums without any of the above, but the Pliers in particular make life easier. I've done the adjusting with a screw driver, but the bend often helps in tight quarters.

 

[sberry]

Pulling the drums off should have been the first thing vs the last resort. We have managed to make it without a bleeder but you need spring plier and hold down removal tool and have managed with a pair of 9's in a parking lot,, ha

 

[Lurch67]

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3025780&postcount=70

The power bleeder is great but some master cylinders have a push on cap versus a screw on cap. The screw on caps provide a great seal. The push on cap have a problem holding the pressure. Read the reviews on power motive for Toyota and Honda.

 

[CWP1616L]

I've got these and they're excellent:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=675704&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item...roup_ID=675704&store=snapon-store&dir=catalog

 

[firebox40dash5]

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00004SBBH/?tag=atomicindus08-20

A pair of these to hold the shoes in place on the backing plates makes it a lot easier to get springs in place, too. I also end up using needlenose Vise Grips about as often as I use spring pliers to stretch them into place.

 

[HaroRider]

I really like that Lisle tool.

 

[Elwood42]

Craftsman Brake spring plier not US made

 

[Steve_P]

epsteins has USA wilde drum brake tools.

 

[sberry]

Found a tractor flat, had intended to use it after supper, am fixing it as we type, waitng for cement to dry.

Back to brakes, none of this needs to be fancy for the diy but drums get removed during tire rotation and service. , especially in pickup trucks. Not every self adjuster works as promised, many brakes "seem" to last long time cause thery havnt been working for last 30K.

 

[Givl Reggin]

the truck will slow down, but slowly; it feels like you're going downhill with a heavy load that's too much for the brakes to handle.

I would bet it's not the rear drum brakes that are causing the problem - more than likely, unless you've adjusted the proportioning valve to do otherwise, your rear drums are providing less than 15% of your total braking power.

 

[jmm]

I get by with nothing but the pliers and a spoon. It can be done without those, but you'll curse a lot and after you curse, you'll learn a lot about leverage. A screwdriver or, worst case scenario, bent and filed screwdriver would work in place of a spoon.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but these tools are tools you can skimp on. My brake pliers came from a flea market -- they're not even branded. The shoe spring tool is simple as it gets, and the same could be said of a bleeder. A spoon is simple, too. You don't have to put any real pressure behind it.

I'd be all for spending as little as possible, and using the money you save on this stuff for some more crucial stuff.

 

[ken w.]

I have an extra pair of Snap On brake pliers and other brake tools as well. If you pm me I can fix you up right with the correct tools that will last a lifetime.

 

[sberry]

I rarely use the spoon or the adjuster tool, I am 2 screwdriver dude. Some of it doesnt seem to work etc but once I do my own clean the ridge with hand grinder so they slide on and off next time. Not so many other peoples cars got drums these days. I love them on rural rust belt roads. None of them are maint free.

 

[Jswain]

A pair of needlenose vicegrips is all I have ever used on my 4runners rear drums. Maybe a flathead and whatever other tools are needed to get the wheels and drums off. Fix what you know is wrong first(the seized bell cranks) then inspect everything else as you tear down, if it looks good then clean it all thoroughly put it back together, and adjust the rear brakes with your E-brake now that it is functioning. After all is said and done if your pedal feels good, and all the pads/shoes/rotors& drums look good, I would try to bed the brakes in(google it). I usually go from 90-100km/h down to 20km/h 3-4 times then 80-20 2-3 times then let them cool down good.

 

[sberry]

We cut a hole in a backing plate the other day with a torch to get some pos apart. Stuck torch in cut adjuster in half.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Get the second set and a good pair of needle nose pliers/

Good luck on the frozen E-brake cable.

 

[pendragon1998]

Thanks for all the opinions, y'all.

I picked up some brake tools on ebay last week and they're starting to arrive. I got the brake pliers (P-63) and the brake spoon (M-106) today. They're both New Britain made in the USA and were the right price.

I also got two Wilde long nose locking pliers (4VGR and 6VGR; I was debating on buying some larger ones, but decided to wait and see if I needed them). They're also made in the USA...as far as I can tell, by the same folks that did Irwin's vicegrips, so they should be nice when they get here.

Just out of curiosity, any idea how old the New Britain stuff is?

 

[metaleltr]

New Britain was a NAPA brand somewhere around the 60s or 70s

 

[TDWendt]

What year t4r? I agree with the locking pliers and the spoon. The brake spring tool is nice to have but not necessarily needed. Long flat blade screwdrivers are handy too.

I've got a 89 sr5 4runner and that's all I used on my drums but I replaced everything including the wheel cylinders+ drums.

 

[pendragon1998]

It's a 1999 4runner

 

[skulldrinker]

I got one of these and never has it seen a drum it could not remove.

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-ton-hydraulic-gear-puller-66657.html

matter a fact I almost wish I got the smaller 5 Ton unit. The 12 Ton is kinda sometimes a juggling act to handle without three hands.

 

[TDWendt]

To get the.drums off i use a bfh

 

[pendragon1998]

I thought I'd come back since I was done and mention the tools I found useful (or not useful) for working on the rear drum brakes on a 3rd gen 4runner (1996 - 2002).

Brake Spring Pliers - a must have for removing the shoe return springs. I found it useful to have a small 2"x2" piece of 1/2" plywood to brace one jaw of the pliers against, so that it didn't damage the shoe. I bought an old New Britain pliers and found it to work well (image below).

Brake spoon - NOT useful for me at all. As I understand it, the access port in the rear backing plate is where I'd use the spoon to turn the adjustment star wheel, but I couldn't access the port with the spoon - it was too big. Instead, I used a mini screwdriver and pick from sears.

1/8"x2" slotted screwdriver (Craftsman USA) and 4 pc. Hook and Pick Set with Cushioned Grip Handles (Craftsman USA). I got really good at using the right angle pick in one hand to push off the adjuster arm while using the driver in the other hand to back off the star wheel, after I'd overadjusted the rear brakes. I found it easiest to do it with the wheels on the ground and a flashlight wedged into the rear suspension springs. Quite a balancing act!

4LN and 6LN long nose locking pliers. I used the 6LN to pull a few brake springs, while the 4 LN was a tad more useful for adjusting the pedal and removing some of the smaller springs. I would have preferred a 9LN version for the heavier springs, though.

Brake spring tool (KD USA). I preferred a screwdriver handled version of this for the shoe hold down springs, since I had to crank down on them.

Finally, to remove the drums, a rubber mallet and some M8-1.25 bolts were all I needed (the bolts thread into the drum and push it off the hub).

 

[theoldwizard1]

...Finally, to remove the drums, a rubber mallet and some M8-1.25 bolts were all I needed (the bolts thread into the drum and push it off the hub).

I saw that on an EricTheCarGuy video and flipped out !

Never seen that on an American car !!

Is there any way to drill through the drum while it is still on the vehicle and tap the hole without drilling through the hub ?

 

[Outlawmws]

I saw that on an EricTheCarGuy video and flipped out !

Never seen that on an American car !!

Is there any way to drill through the drum while it is still on the vehicle and tap the hole without drilling through the hub ?

Not really, but you could before re-installing or before installing new ones...

 

[theoldwizard1]

Not really, but you could before re-installing or before installing new ones...

Yeah, well with modern vehicles only using drums on the rear (if at all) the likelihood of replacing rear brakes is low and the likelihood of doing it more than once on a vehicle in INCREDIBLY low !

 

[devoncoolman]

New britian tools are good. Old havent been around for awhile.

 

[4BT]

I've done many drum brakejobs and never used these tools before?

 

[Plombob]

Brake spring pliers - Are the Craftsmans good / still made in USA? (the pic says USA, the comments say otherwise)

Brake spoon / brake adjuster tool
Brake spring tool

Or would the Lisle one be ok?

When I was taught brake repair, the instructor said if he saw us with a pair of brake spring pliers, he would confiscate them. He said it was only good for cutting your arm. Because of his conviction, I've never used a pair.

I have the other tools and they are good tools. I prefer a brake cup tool that is one-sided, so I can put some leverage on the back of the handle. I also use a drum caliper to measure drum wear, and an Aamco "Safe Set" that helps you adjust the shoes quickly.

 

[Outlawmws]

So I'm curious; What was this instructor's "better/safer way" to remove brake springs?

Mind you I've done brake springs with the tools, without the tool by using the shoe itself for installation, by using lineman's pliers and brute strength on an off... The list goes on and on...

I can understand that sentiment with some of the cheaply made, stamped out, brake spring pliers. but a well made set?

 

[pendragon1998]

When I was taught brake repair, the instructor said if he saw us with a pair of brake spring pliers, he would confiscate them. He said it was only good for cutting your arm. Because of his conviction, I've never used a pair.

I have the other tools and they are good tools. I prefer a brake cup tool that is one-sided, so I can put some leverage on the back of the handle. I also use a drum caliper to measure drum wear, and an Aamco "Safe Set" that helps you adjust the shoes quickly.

I'm honestly not sure how I could have cut my arm with the brake pliers. I had a strained wrist while I was working on the brakes, and I doubt I could have gotten the job done without them.

Drum calipers are expensive! Is there a cheap version out there for DIY guys who don't need them often?

 

[Outlawmws]

I see them at yard sales/flea markets regularly. And they are cheap, since their are so few drum brake jobs needed anymore...

(I saw two sets just today)

 

[mattamd_xp]

I use this to install/remove springs while doing brake jobs. Just hook onto the spring and pull it out to install/remove. Works great and I haven't found a set that I haven't been able to use it on. I'm sure there are some, but I haven't run across any yet.

http://store.harryepstein.com/cp/WildeChrome/545.html

 

[wjamyers]

I thought I'd come back since I was done and mention the tools I found useful (or not useful) for working on the rear drum brakes on a 3rd gen 4runner (1996 - 2002).

Brake Spring Pliers - a must have for removing the shoe return springs. I found it useful to have a small 2"x2" piece of 1/2" plywood to brace one jaw of the pliers against, so that it didn't damage the shoe. I bought an old New Britain pliers and found it to work well (image below).

Brake spoon - NOT useful for me at all. As I understand it, the access port in the rear backing plate is where I'd use the spoon to turn the adjustment star wheel, but I couldn't access the port with the spoon - it was too big. Instead, I used a mini screwdriver and pick from sears.


1/8"x2" slotted screwdriver (Craftsman USA) and 4 pc. Hook and Pick Set with Cushioned Grip Handles (Craftsman USA). I got really good at using the right angle pick in one hand to push off the adjuster arm while using the driver in the other hand to back off the star wheel, after I'd overadjusted the rear brakes. I found it easiest to do it with the wheels on the ground and a flashlight wedged into the rear suspension springs. Quite a balancing act!



4LN and 6LN long nose locking pliers. I used the 6LN to pull a few brake springs, while the 4 LN was a tad more useful for adjusting the pedal and removing some of the smaller springs. I would have preferred a 9LN version for the heavier springs, though.


Brake spring tool (KD USA). I preferred a screwdriver handled version of this for the shoe hold down springs, since I had to crank down on them.


Finally, to remove the drums, a rubber mallet and some M8-1.25 bolts were all I needed (the bolts thread into the drum and push it off the hub).

I have the hooks and the screwdriver, I'm ordering the KD-285 right now ($8.99 + tax picked up Sears) and the vice grips are obvious but...

can anyone please recommend a specific inexpensive (I'm a hobbyist) brand of Brake Spring Pliers for the 3rd Gen 4Runner?

Perhaps it's dumb to buy them, I'll probably be dead before these brakes need replacing again. But who knows? Maybe I'll need to help a friend with their drum brakes. Sometime.

 

[Outlawmws]

wjamyers, if you do yard/estate sales or flea markets much. just watch for a pair there. the pliers is one useful part the ":can opener" that looks like a modified socket on the end of one of the handles is VERY useful for de-installing the springs easily.

 

[wjamyers]

That's a good idea, but I'm gearing up to do the rear drums/bearings/seals on my 4runner this weekend and next weekend, so, no time for that.

 

[Tinner]

When the drums won't come off you can usually grind the heads off the anchor pins from the outside of the backing plate. If they sit in a recess, grind them thin with a conical stone or burr and drive them in with a punch. If they're real rusty, sometimes you don't even need to grind them.

 

[wjamyers]

not sure, I'm following... the anchor pins for the shoes? so they fall back and the drum is released? and then you have to replace the backing plate?