Dry or damp?

[billconner]

Planning down lights in porch ceiling. Determing if this is a dry or damp location is not simple. The building code board more or less say dry. Roof just like a house with a solid ceiiling - no different than an attic.

Made me wonder if recessed lights in a soffit was dry or damp.

Anyone have feedback from actual code inspections?

 

[PCustoms]

I went with wet on my ceiling, can't remember why but it was more of a product offering IIRC.

Seems NEC would call a porch damp.

Wet and Damp Locations | Leviton

leviton.com

 

[billconner]

I thought it might but with ceiling it's just as dry as an attic.

 

[PCustoms]

I thought it might but with ceiling it's just as dry as an attic.

Is the light side not exposed to the outdoors?

Someone can correct me, but it is a damp location afaik

 

[billconner]

As I noted, the building code folk, including electrical inspectors, say not.

Mine on porch will be 4' or so from eave, so not worried.

 

[PCustoms]

As I noted, the building code folk, including electrical inspectors, say not.

Who?

If they are doing your inspection I guess your "ok", but that doesn't mean correct. If you already knew this, why ask?

Mine on porch will be 4' or so from eave, so not worried.

Pretty sure the NEC says it's a damp location, read the link I had again.

Here's another search:

Google Search

@wyliesdiesels

@alfredeneuman

@sparky 1971

Someone can confirm

 

[billconner]

Who?

If they are doing your inspection I guess your "ok", but that doesn't mean correct. If you already knew this, why ask?



Pretty sure the NEC says it's a damp location, read the link I had again.

Here's another search:

Google Search

@wyliesdiesels

@alfredeneuman

@sparky 1971

Someone can confirm

Not my inspector. Bulletin board.

Dry or damp?

Porch with roof (ply, ice and water, architectural shingles) and ceiling. LED down lights in ceiling. NM-B or UF? Thanks.

www.thebuildingcodeforum.com

Maybe need to separate the discussion of wiring above a porch ceiling and fixtures recessed in it. And if it was a surface fixture, maybe different again.

I am convinced that on a porch with roof and ceiling, it's "dry" for the wiring, no different than an attic.

I put some recessed lights in a previous porch ceiling, pretty sure not wet or damp rated, inspector said fine, and in 25 years there was never any water or dampness on them.

 

[PCustoms]

Not my inspector. Bulletin board.

Dry or damp?

Porch with roof (ply, ice and water, architectural shingles) and ceiling. LED down lights in ceiling. NM-B or UF? Thanks.

www.thebuildingcodeforum.com

Maybe need to separate the discussion of wiring above a porch ceiling and fixtures recessed in it. And if it was a surface fixture, maybe different again.

I am convinced that on a porch with roof and ceiling, it's "dry" for the wiring, no different than an attic.

I put some recessed lights in a previous porch ceiling, pretty sure not wet or damp rated, inspector said fine, and in 25 years there was never any water or dampness on them.

Your thread on the other forum specifically asked about NM-B or UF.

The thread here made no mention of the wire. Your OP seems focused on the fixtures:

Planning down lights in porch ceiling. Determing if this is a dry or damp location is not simple. The building code board more or less say dry. Roof just like a house with a solid ceiiling - no different than an attic.

Made me wonder if recessed lights in a soffit was dry or damp.

Anyone have feedback from actual code inspections?

 

[sparky 1971]

Who?

If they are doing your inspection I guess your "ok", but that doesn't mean correct. If you already knew this, why ask?



Pretty sure the NEC says it's a damp location, read the link I had again.

Here's another search:

Google Search

@wyliesdiesels

@alfredeneuman

@sparky 1971

Someone can confirm

Damp location is going to be a gray area and probably up to interpretation; I looked up the definitions in the 2020 code book and couldn't find anything specifying a soffit or overhang. I have installed plenty of open type can lights in the past and either it was ok or the inspector didn't see it or didn't care.

Location, damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture.

It's definitely not a wet location

Location, wet. Installations underground or in concrete slabs or masonry in direct contact with the earth; in locations subject to saturation with water or other liquids, such as vehicle washing areas; and in unprotected locations exposed to weather.

If it's really a big concern, my advice will be to use the wafer type lights in the link below, they are pretty much all the same. Those are damp rated since they can go above a shower and more importantly, they are sealed so the wasps and hornets can't get in there; I got stung about five times several years ago when I tried to unscrew a burned out light bulb in a can light with an open trim ring that was in a soffit

https://www.menards.com/main/lighting-ceiling-fans/indoor-lighting/recessed-lights/juno-reg-6-led-flat-wafer-trade-canless-downlight/wf6sww590crimwm6/p-12148367798210074-c-7499.htm

 

[sparky 1971]

Maybe need to separate the discussion of wiring above a porch ceiling and fixtures recessed in it.

No need. It's the attic and it's not a wet or damp location unless the roof leaks.

 

[billconner]

No need. It's the attic and it's not a wet or damp location unless the roof leaks.

So wiring clearly dry, but lights might be damp location, based on some judgement.

 

[sparky 1971]

So wiring clearly dry, but lights might be damp location, based on some judgement.

Yeah, the lights could be depending on who makes the decision. Personally, I wouldn't call a soffit a damp location because it's not going to see moisture without a heck of a wind.

 

[PCustoms]

Yeah, the lights could be depending on who makes the decision. Personally, I wouldn't call a soffit a damp location because it's not going to see moisture without a heck of a wind.

Well, it's like 85% humidity right now, my lights are about 4' from the roofline. Guarantee their is condensation on the ceiling in the morning.

I've also had wind whip up snow plenty of times....

Not sure why this is such a controversial question. Seems to me outdoor fixtures, under a roof but outdoors, would be damp locations.

 

[sparky 1971]

Well, it's like 85% humidity right now,

Bathrooms can be worse than that with a long, hot shower and no exhaust fan or open window. TBH, I don't know if an openable window can still take the place of an exhaust fan or not; regardless, nobody in the midwest or North is going to open it in January. Vanity lights don't have to be damp rated because of it. Or, open your windows up and let the humidity equalize inside with outside, the interior fixtures don't have to be damp rated just in case of that.

my lights are about 4' from the roofline. Guarantee their is condensation on the ceiling in the morning.

I've also had wind whip up snow plenty of times....

Not sure why this is such a controversial question. Seems to me outdoor fixtures, under a roof but outdoors, would be damp locations.

And that's your interpretation. Nothing wrong with it and I'm sure some, but definitely not all, AHJ's would agree with you. I don't but that doesn't make me right nor does that make it controversial. And, it was you that tagged me in this thread, I just went to the codebook and couldn't find anything definite. Granted, I didn't look too hard, but at the same time, it's not my problem. It's one of those things like "to be protected from physical damage" Who decides if it's protected or not? Romex run inside of Rigid conduit certainly is, but why do that when running along a flat surface or bored holes more than 7' AFF will satisfy some inspectors?

 

[billconner]

I've never seen condensation on our porch ceiling here on Canadian border. Nor the previous one in Chicago burbs. I guess it's a local call. There are low lying areas near us - a mile or so - where I see ground fog often, while in our yard we seldom see dew.

It's not like I care much if either the wiring or fixtures are to be rated for damp, but wish I knew.

"to be protected from physical damage"

Good parallel. I ran UF to a future post light and asked my electrical inspector if it had to be protected under this same porch. Came out of ground in a PVC sleave to pirch joists, about 4' above grade. Does it have to be protected or can I just staple it to joists? He allowed the just staple, even with the space bring used for storage.

 

[ripperd]

In our area I pulled the electric permit and did the electrical in our attached screenporch ceiling (full shingle roof).

I put in damp rated stuff and outlet covers. Inspector said it wasn't necessary, he considered it a dry location.

Like the other poster though, when a good snow or rainstorm blows hard I have seen snow or water on the ceiling. But it is rare, maybe once a season if that.