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Drywall mud?

NRChopshop

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I havent done any finish work on my shops drywall. What reasons do i have to not use certain weight drywall muds? Why would i chose the green bucket all purpose over the blue lightweight and such? im doing the 8 ft walls and ceiling. 60 sheets work of seams and screws to cover. trying to figure out whats best to use.
Thanks
 
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jshillin

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I've used blue lid/green lid and the Rapid Coat stuff from Lowes. I used a little over 10 gallons to finish my garage last month and I prefer the Rapid Coat, it seems like the rapid coat went down a bit smoother than the green or blue lid drywall mud.
 

twostory

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I am using the "all purpose" green lid. The "light weight" stuff is okay, but is shrinks more that the "all purpose".

The hot mud shrinks the least, but it is less forgiving it you apply too much (difficult to sand)
 

Tman

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Here is a tip I picked up years ago buiding commercial stuff. Put a squeeze or two of Dawn dish detergent in the bucket and mix it in with the mud. It actually helps the stuff lay out better. And ALWAYS clean your toold before dipping back into the bucket to re-load your hawk or pan!!! Do this and keep the mud from drying on the sides of the bucket and you will not have "goobers" dragging through your work!
 

chevyoneton

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I usually use the standard green lid mud. It works well and drys plenty fast for use on usual projects. The quick set or "setting" (versus drying) type compounds are stronger and may work better in humid environments but I am far too slow to use them to do more then fix a hole (they do excel for that though).

A tip for saving your mud between uses is to wipe the inside of your bucket down to what's left, smooth the top of the remainder and pour a little water to sit on top before replacing the lid. The next time you need mud, days or whatever later, you do not have little bits of hard mud falling down into your still good mud. Just pour off the bulk of the water and mix in what little's left and go to work.
 

woodbutch

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greens good , blues good . I keep a bag of durabond 90 around for small patch work, keep it dry and it will not go sour on you like premix will.
 

Gasket

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I use the setting type for setting the tape, then put 1-2 coats of the green lid spackle on.

I use the blue now only for touch ups of very small areas that I may have missed prior to priming. I found the blue one cracks very easily, so I try to avoid it for any larger spackling areas. The blue does sand a lot quicker then the green though.
 

buening

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I used Durabond 90 on my garage walls and I just started sanding. Holy hell, it's like trying to sand concrete! I've used the green and blue in the bucket and it sands pretty easily.....not this stuff though! I started out with a hand drywall sander with the drywall mesh coarse sandpaper and I wasn't getting anywhere. 20 minutes of sanding and very little dust on the ground....so I pulled out the palm sander with the mesh sandpaper on there and it works, but still very slowly. Any quick tricks to sanding the setting-type mud? I'm about to get out the belt sander with 60 grit and let loose! :mad:
 
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PAToyota

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First thing with the setting type is to not throw as much on there. As you say, the pre-mix comes back off easily so people tend to throw on a whole lot more than they need.

For sanding, I use a Porter Cable drywall sander. A lot of rental yards have them, but it proved so useful I kept an eye on eBay for one. Very easy to get a nice flat finish and very limited dust as it has an attached vacuum.
 

dreamingmuscle

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I used Durabond 90 on my garage walls and I just started sanding. Holy hell, it's like trying to sand concrete! I've used the green and blue in the bucket and it sands pretty easily.....not this stuff though! I started out with a hand drywall sander with the drywall mesh coarse sandpaper and I wasn't getting anywhere. 20 minutes of sanding and very little dust on the ground....so I pulled out the palm sander with the mesh sandpaper on there and it works, but still very slowly. Any quick tricks to sanding the setting-type mud? I'm about to get out the belt sander with 60 grit and let loose! :mad:


Skim it with a coat of blue or green premix then sand. Or hire Manuel from the 7-11.
________
Ford Falcon Cobra history
 
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buening

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Hmm, the Porter Cable drywall sander looks like a fancy DA sander with an extension and a dust collector on it. I may try the belt sander first, before I drop $300 on a used PC drywall sander
 

PAToyota

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Got mine sander and vacuum for under $150... :thumbup:

I think it was about $60 for a weekend to rent one the last I checked.

The belt sander has the potential to cut into things with the edges of the belt - the rotary sander is better for that.
 

Tman

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For small projects I rarely sand anymore. If you learn to handle your knife properly you will have a pretty smooth finish when it dries. Maybe a light swipe with sanding mesh then we move to a damp sponge. Really keeps the dust down. They actually sell a drywall sponge for this.
 

tcianci

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A very good approach is to use the Durabond 20 or 45 and go easy with it, not applying anything that you will have to sand off afterwards. You can usually get 2 passes of 45 on a job in the same day and then go back and hit it with bucket mud that will sand real easy for your finish. The trick with drywall is to remember that you have two parameters to attain... Figure and Finish. If you try to get to your finish when you first start applying, that is to say, make everything have a nice smooth surface without tool marks or voids, you ar missing the aspect of establishing "figure" or more simply put, the "plane" of the surface you are trying to attain. If you think about it, all you are trying to do is continue the plane that already exists of the drywall itself so you have to project your surface of the drywall into the mud work and its eaiser to do that through multiple coats than to load it up and sand it off. Setting type compound works up much more quickly because it its formulated to "kick" after a pre determined working period and it shrinks much less than bucket mud allowing you to do multiple coats in a day. One work of caution with setting type compounds..be sure to COMPLETELY clean out your mixing vessel before you make up another batch of compound, for some reason, the residual compound form the previous batch tends to accelerate the setting of the next batch so your Durabond 45 becomes more like Durabond 15. (been there)
 
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Herb

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I was told by the guys doing the finish work on my drywall- new construction- to slightly reduce the mud for the final coat. It goes on smoother and feathers out nicer for less potential sanding. I tried this on a project in my basement and it worked out well. Similar idea to using a glazing compound during finish body work on a car.
 

buening

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One work of caution with setting type compounds..be sure to COMPLETELY clean out your mixing vessel before you make up another batch of compound, for some reason, the residual compound form the previous batch tends to accelerate the setting of the next batch so your Durabond 45 becomes more like Durabond 15. (been there)

I found this out as well. I was using Durabond 90 and had reused my bucket, as I got the majority of the old stuff out. Mixed a new batch and got up on the ladder and it had nearly hardened......that quick!

I used my DA air sander with some 80 grit paper and it sanded nicely.
 

IHI

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Hot Mud is what we use for setting since it cures by checmical reaction vs evaporation, thus making a much stronger, less prone to cracking embedment job. When using the hot mud, use mesh tape since it's essentially like mortaring a joint and you want it to fill the void behind the joint as well as the tape. My subs will use hot mud initially when they first get on site and pack all the gaps with hot mud. Once the gaps are packed full they then switch over and use typical general purpose premixed joint compound to embed the papertape....so whichever method you chose, there's you steps. Hot mud comes in varying drying times, 5 minute, 20 minute, 45 minute, 90 minute, and 210 minute. If doing large area's mix up a large batch of the 210 and your fine, smaller touch up jobs use a faster setting compound. When we do a small project, i keep it in house and we use hot mud exclusively, 20 minute to be exact, and we can have a complete bathroom done in a single day, textured and all...larger projects like a garage, it's going to take a few days, so saving/maximizing time is not as critical.

If your using the premixed, "bucket mud" the green lid has more adhesive in it and is used for first coat/tape embedding, and usually the second coat as well, then use the blue, lightweight mud for the top coat/final coat since it sands very easy.

Hints/tricks when using premixed bucket mud- once you scoop the mud into your pan, add some water, not much, but add water to the pan and stir it in. Out of the bucket the mud is EXTREMELY stiff and all but impossible to spread it smoothly and get a nice thin coat that will dry without cracking due to being laid to thick since it's hard to manipulate it with the knife.

When using/mixing hot mud, use ONLY clean COLD water to get extended working time. Using old dirty water from say a bucket your using to brush your knifes on it will severely increase drying time of the hot mud, same with using warm or hot water, it will turn typical 20 minute mud into 5-10minute mud.

When using hot mud, clean your pan, knife IMMEDIATELY after you put on a batch, this stuff cures and gets to be just like concrete, dont hink your going to buy yourself any time by submerging a mud coated knife in a bucket of water, hot mud will cure and get rock hard even under water...so clean your tools throughouly when using hot mud after each coat...unless your using 90 or 210minute mud, then your working window is alot larger, but like i stated, we use 20 minute almost exclusively so we clean up after each coat...PITA, but we're also doing complete rooms in a day's time so it's the price we pay for expediating the process.

Thin coats is key, it's 1000x's easier to apply one more coat, then it is to sand it back off. Once you lay your first coat on, inevitabley there will be ridges from dragging the knife through soft mud, do not sand these, if you apply this correctly, there is zero sanding taking place until the final finish before the texture is applied. so for the ridges, boogered up inside corners, use your knife and "chisel" it down, no dust, and makes quick work of knocking down ridges.

SS knifes are great, but stiff so it takes a special touch to apply the mud due to theri stiff nature, we use blue steel knives for blending/feathering coats. I will put one side of the knife on the high area and the other half on the wall, and i push/put more pressure on the knife side on the bare wall, so it flexes the knife blade and "trowels" the mud on to a nice thin SMOOTH coating, holding the knife is 90% of what makes your job easier hard along with mud consistency.

I took one day off and worked with our drywall sub for a day years ago to pick up on their tricks to hone my own skillz, and watering down mud, and knife manipulation is key to spreading mud and not having to put on 5 gallons of mud, then sand off 4. We've got it down now to where there is zero sanding taking place until the end and that's just feathering in the hard edges into the wall surface, since when applied right your not making more work for yourself.

Hope this helps, but it's one thing to read, and another to apply it, but at least know everbody has a heads up since drywall ***** LOL!!
 
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ripsnortMN

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Great info IHI. Btw your car is sick! I checked out your video. How did you get that thing to go like that? Huge intake runners with a solid lift cam?
 

buening

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Thanks IHI! I'm down to applying 5 gallons of mud and sanding 1 gallon :lol_hitti It definitely takes a ton of practice, something I don't have much of.
 

IHI

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Great info IHI. Btw your car is sick! I checked out your video. How did you get that thing to go like that? Huge intake runners with a solid lift cam?

big cubic inch- 427sbc, right combinations of parts. We're heading to the dyno this Friday with the improved version of that engine, builder screwed me over soo bad i'm still sick from tearing it apart a few weeks ago...so it should motate muuch better this year. "should be" a consistant 10.30/.40 car N/A and well into the 9's on the juice....where it was supposed to have been last year:mad:
 
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