Dual 80 killer !!

[PureLeaf]

I have the 1/2 MAXX flex head, 1/2 MAXX, 3/8 MAXX, 1/4 Maxx, and 1/4 flex head Maxx. Big fan of them all. The 1/2 Maxx flex head is very long, and its been great for taking off the big bolts of things like brake calipers on trucks etc. Never had an issue with it, and the lockable flex head aspect is great.

Only issue I've heard (but not experienced) is the warranty thing others have mentioned. Luckily have not hard to warranty anything yet...

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

WoW. That is all I can really say. Armstrong's Maxx 3/8 ratchet has outdone Snap-On's King of the Mountain in just about every way I can think of. My coworker got his Armstrong 11-994 delivered yesterday and it is completely badass. It out does my Dual 80 to such a degree I was sick to my stomach looking it over. First let's start with the finish. I always thought Armstrong had some of the nicest chrome out there, right up with SK and his ratchet just reaffirmed that. It really was far superior to my D80. The head is smaller, quite a bit smaller, it has 88 teeth instead of my D80's 72, it is a bit longer, the handle is ridiculously comfortable. I always loved my D80's handle but Armstrong has used this kind of squared off design that is super chunky and comfy in your hand... The difference is only enhanced when actually running something. The Armstrong has a 10 positition locking head or some **** too and it works like a dream.. thing is solid as a rock in all positions. WtF.... I had heard about these Armstrong ratchets and knew they raised the tooth count from 60 to 88 a while back, but what I don't understand is how it has kind of flown under the radar. And finally, 100% USA made. I recently started a thread to update the best 3/8 ratchet for 2016 and not one person even mentioned the Armstrong... I hadn't seen one then. WTF? ImO, and I have done my share of research, I promise you. Armstrong's Maxx 11-994 is probably the best ratchet on the market today.. oh yeah... btw.. They make the exact same ratchet in 1/4 & 1/2 DR's too..... I literally can't think of one area where my D80 was an improvement over that damn Armstrong. I know what my next ratchet purchase will be..... The King is dead... Long live the King...

I own MAC, Snap-On, Matco, Armstong, Facom, TIPCO, CK, Draper, PK, Halfords, Craftsman, Geodre, Rolls-Royce, Teng, Britool and a heap of other ratchets. The MAC ones are very good. However Snap-On make the best in the world. Everyone knows that.

Good Ratchet, yes.

Dual 80 Killer, no.

If you had said dual 80 competitor I would have agreed but killer absolutely not.

Snap-On make the best Retchets, period.... IMHO!!! LOL

 

[Pontiac787]

its been great for taking off the big bolts of things like brake calipers...

This is exactly the job I had in mind for it. Sounds like I won't go wrong with either the Armstrong or Snap-On offering. Maybe it will come down to which I can get a better deal on.

 

[Loscaldazar]

Out of curiosity, what is clunky about the 1/2" Maxx? I was thinking about picking up the 1/2" Flex head to use when I need something between the standard 40 tooth 10" fixed head 1/2" ratchet and my SLF80.

The mechanism- it's not bad like a CMAN RP ratchet, but it definitely feels rougher than the dual 80 and despite the fine tooth count, feels like it makes a solid click going into each tooth, not like tightening a zip tie that most fine tooth ratchets feel like. Not bad, but is a little rough and has higher back drag.


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[gdocktor3]

This is exactly the job I had in mind for it. Sounds like I won't go wrong with either the Armstrong or Snap-On offering. Maybe it will come down to which I can get a better deal on.

Used my 3/8" Dual 80 flex two days ago to do brakes on my truck. Here's why you should get a dual 80.

Brake calipers are always covered in grease, brake dust, and debris. By the time you get the first caliper off, everything is covered. Hands, sockets, ratchet, everything. Removing the socket is now a job in itself. I had this problem when I did mine with a stubby 3/8" hex socket and had to use channellocks to pull it off. When I finished the job, I came inside, got on the old lap top and found a 3/8" dual 80 flex head with QUICK RELEASE. Never again will I encounter that problem. Matco/Armstrong does NOT offer a MAXX 88 with quick release. Snap On does. I paid $50 for mine used on eBay, negotiated down from $65. Should be here tomorrow and I can't wait! That my friend, is why Snap On is the answer

 

[winlinmac]

Seriously need to get my hands on Beta Tools to see what all the hype is about

 

[M6erfan]

Used my 3/8" Dual 80 flex two days ago to do brakes on my truck. Here's why you should get a dual 80.

Brake calipers are always covered in grease, brake dust, and debris. By the time you get the first caliper off, everything is covered. Hands, sockets, ratchet, everything. Removing the socket is now a job in itself. I had this problem when I did mine with a stubby 3/8" hex socket and had to use channellocks to pull it off. When I finished the job, I came inside, got on the old lap top and found a 3/8" dual 80 flex head with QUICK RELEASE. Never again will I encounter that problem. Matco/Armstrong does NOT offer a MAXX 88 with quick release. Snap On does. I paid $50 for mine used on eBay, negotiated down from $65. Should be here tomorrow and I can't wait! That my friend, is why Snap On is the answer

^^^This^^^

The Armstrong Maxx ratchets never impressed me much, even allowing for the lack of QR

 

[mrjaw14]

I have all 3 drive sizes in the older 60 tooth. While I'd like to upgrade them to 88, I'm actually looking to get the new fhlf80a. The dual 80 mechanism is stronger. It just is. The dual pawls aren't as prone to cracking in two as a single pawl is. Not saying dual 80s are indestructible, just stronger. I have a couple of dual 80s that I reach for over my Armstrong maxx. Other thing is I called for a repair kit and Armstrong won't give me one. Have to buy it or warranty the whole ratchet. Needless to say with the trouble Armstrong and Marco are having right now I'll probably fork over the money for a kit. Never had that issue with snap on.

 

[MW.]

The dual pawls aren't as prone to cracking in two as a single pawl is.

The dual pawl has nothing to do with that. Only one is engaged for forward and the other for reverse. Not like the old Proto and some others that use both at the same time which usually causes more back drag. It is an excellent design but the name is a little misleading.

 

[reader2580]

I just got my Armstrong MAXX 3/8" ratchet on Friday. Frankly, I thought the ratcheting action would be a little bit more refined. It will work just fine though and is still better than my Craftsman RP. The RP has such course teeth that at times I have not be able to move the ratchet enough to engage another tooth.

 

[pstemari]

... Needless to say with the trouble Armstrong and Marco are having right now...

Oh? Details or pointer to those problems?

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[M6erfan]

Oh? Details or pointer to those problems?

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Probably meaning the production issues and that ratchets are backordered for months, some report out 'till 2017. Many threads about it...

 

[T45]

Oh? Details or pointer to those problems?

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=306641&showall=1

Total shitshow

 

[HighPlainsWrencher]

I have a 12-994. Dual 80 killer... nah, its a nice ratchet though and has earned a place in my toolbox at work. It is comfortable and I do prefer the lock on the Armstrong to my Snap On's. The chrome is no better than anyone elses. What surprises me is I dont hear near enough about Mac's new Axis ratchet, they are great ratchets.

Edit- oh yes. there is the whole warranty subject. If I ever have to warranty my Armstrong i'll just throw it in the garbage. A **** show indeed.

 

[mrjaw14]

The dual pawl has nothing to do with that. Only one is engaged for forward and the other for reverse. Not like the old Proto and some others that use both at the same time which usually causes more back drag. It is an excellent design but the name is a little misleading.

Correct. Only one pawl at a time. Never said both were engaged. On that single pawl that is engaged however, all the teeth are engaged. On single pawl designs there's not good engagement in the middle and they crack there.

As for the Armstrong and Matco issues I'm talking about supply issues that's been all over these forums for months now.

I will say the locking flex design of the maxx is one of the best out there in my opinion. Like the recessed selector switch. I do like my maxx ratchets, just wish the warranty and parts supply was there

 

[DMAR]

I just got my Armstrong MAXX 3/8" ratchet on Friday. Frankly, I thought the ratcheting action would be a little bit more refined. It will work just fine though and is still better than my Craftsman RP. The RP has such course teeth that at times I have not be able to move the ratchet enough to engage another tooth.

I agree with your comments on the Maxx's action not being as smooth as you'd think for an 88 tooth mechanism. IME, you can't beat the Snappy dual 80 for smoothness, and it's tough, too. My advice to anyone deciding between the two, get the dual 80 if money is not an issue. That said, the Armstrong flex head locking mechanism is good, I like it.

I do want to check out the new Mac ratchet one of these days...

 

[67King]

I just got my Armstrong MAXX 3/8" ratchet on Friday. Frankly, I thought the ratcheting action would be a little bit more refined. It will work just fine though and is still better than my Craftsman RP. The RP has such course teeth that at times I have not be able to move the ratchet enough to engage another tooth.

+1. I've been upgrading from mostly old Craftsman stuff to the non-truck brand USA tools (SK, Wright, Mayhew, etc). Bought the Armstrong ratchet since the SK was so coarse. Sure the swing was nice and low, but it still didn't help me run down fasteners in hard to reach places since the spring was too still to allow it to ratchet. Bought a used Snap-On ratchet. Bought four more and sold the Armstrong as barely used. THe ratchets are the only Snap-On tools I own, and they are beyond worth it.

So yeah, the Armstrong is a nice upgrade over an SK or a Craftsman due to the lower swing. But it isn't as refined as a really nice ratchet. From my experience.

 

[Fedwrench]

What surprises me is I don't hear near enough about Mac's new Axis ratchet, they are great ratchets.

I think that's because MAC didn't launch all of the ratchets at the same time. They introduced the 3/8 version like a year ago, then released the 1/2 drive models, and are finishing up with th1/4 drive versions this month so, they really haven't been on the market long. Secondly, MAC gets little love in the pages of Garage Journal

I have 3/8 & 1/4 drive MAC Axis versions, and I really like them. The 90 tooth action is crisp & smooth, I think putting the flex head ears on the head versus the handle reduces lateral slack, and I'm always encouraged when MAC releases new USA made product

 

[M6erfan]

The MAC's have my attention but The Axis isn't available in QR (yet anyway), so no go for me...

 

[nanofrog]

I'm surprised he got his hands on one. Getting Armstrong tools has been impossible for me lately because everyone is back ordered.

JB Tool Sales has all 3 sizes in stock (just ordered an 11-994 myself). No problems in my dealings with them thus far (2nd purchase).

Found them after trying to buy from Zoro on the last 30% sale.

 

[Loscaldazar]

I think that's because MAC didn't launch all of the ratchets at the same time. They introduced the 3/8 version like a year ago, then released the 1/2 drive models, and are finishing up with th1/4 drive versions this month so, they really haven't been on the market long. Secondly, MAC gets little love in the pages of Garage Journal

I have 3/8 & 1/4 drive MAC Axis versions, and I really like them. The 90 tooth action is crisp & smooth, I think putting the flex head ears on the head versus the handle reduces lateral slack, and I'm always encouraged when MAC releases new USA made product

Availability is scarce for those ratchets- Current options are to buy them off the truck, or to pay full price+tax+shipping off their website. Hard pill to swallow for many members when a used Snap On goes for less than half of what a new Mac will be, or they can get a deal with their snap on driver on a new one. I'd love to try one but don't have $100-$200 I want to spend on something I might now like.

 

[KWtech90]

I own MAC, Snap-On, Matco, Armstong, Facom, TIPCO, CK, Draper, PK, Halfords, Craftsman, Geodre, Rolls-Royce, Teng, Britool and a heap of other ratchets. The MAC ones are very good. However Snap-On make the best in the world. Everyone knows that.

Good Ratchet, yes.

Dual 80 Killer, no.

If you had said dual 80 competitor I would have agreed but killer absolutely not.

Snap-On make the best Retchets, period.... IMHO!!! LOL

It really depends on what you nean when you say "dual 80 killer". I personally prefer my mac axis long handle over my dual 80 long handle 3/8. I dare say the back drag is ever so slightly less and tooth engagement smoother, but I prefer the fatter comfort grip of the snap on over the thinner profile mac. Snap on will sell more dual 80s due to its overwhelming market satration, but I for one will grab my mac axis over my dual 80 every time. It doesnt hurt that the mac axis head is smaller and better looking to boot.

 

[Fedwrench]

Availability is scarce for those ratchets- Current options are to buy them off the truck, or to pay full price+tax+shipping off their website. Hard pill to swallow for many members when a used Snap On goes for less than half of what a new Mac will be, or they can get a deal with their snap on driver on a new one. I'd love to try one but don't have $100-$200 I want to spend on something I might now like.

I get that they're new. I did get mine from eBay though as I don't have a Mac dealer. For now, used Snappy makes more since unless you're addicted to chrome like me

If you order from MAC by phone, they will give you a contact number which will give you free shipping on your order. MAC also posts their monthly fliers on their website and you can order at the flier price over the phone.

 

[chrisnazzy]

I have primarily Snap-On Dual 80's in all three drive sizes. I also have one of the newer red/black HF composite ratchets in each drive size and reach for them once in awhile (they certainly aren't bad for the $). Reading this thread though has made me realize that this week while I'm on the MAC truck I should check out the MAC Axis. I've never bothered checking them out and it sounds like they are amazing.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Whatever you do DO NOT put your hands on a Nepros 90 or a Mac Axis 90. You'll puke and **** yourself at the same time.

Why, do they give you food poisoning?

 

[pstemari]

JB Tool Sales has all 3 sizes in stock (just ordered an 11-994 myself). No problems in my dealings with them thus far...

I'll be curious to hear how that turns out. Elsewhere it was mention that JB was just doing drop shipments, which makes me wonder about their "in stock" status. Zoro was drop shipping straight from Armstrong immediately before they pulled them from the website.

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[nanofrog]

I'll be curious to hear how that turns out. Elsewhere it was mention that JB was just doing drop shipments, which makes me wonder about their "in stock" status. Zoro was drop shipping straight from Armstrong immediately before they pulled them from the website.

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It's been shipped from a warehouse in Phoenix, AZ. FWIW, Armstrong is part of Apex, which is located in Sparks, MD (I seem to recall they've a facility in NC).

According to the tracking info, it will be delivered on Thursday.

 

[pstemari]

That sounds very promising. Maybe I'll go ahead and pull the trigger on the 1/4" and 1/2"; I really like the 3/8"

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[Rag Roc]

Ordered the Armstrong 994 & 992 from Tooltopia on 8/30 and they arrived 9/3. Impressed with the performance, but a little noisy and more back drag than I like. Was too busy this weekend, but may open them up, and see if they're dry inside.

 

[nanofrog]

I'll be curious to hear how that turns out. Elsewhere it was mention that JB was just doing drop shipments, which makes me wonder about their "in stock" status. Zoro was drop shipping straight from Armstrong immediately before they pulled them from the website.

I originally screwed up and bought the 1/4". Literally showed up in one day from MI (where they're headquartered). I sent it back of course, and it arrived on Friday (refunded to my card same day too). So I know they had at least one.

Seriously though, I do think they've stock for both. So I say go for it before they're gone (no idea what's going on with Armstrong not having any in their warehouses). Figured I need to grab one quick, as I'm not sure they'll be coming back (EOL), or if they're shifting production elsewhere and it's not up and running yet.

 

[Thax]

It really depends on what you nean when you say "dual 80 killer". I personally prefer my mac axis long handle over my dual 80 long handle 3/8. I dare say the back drag is ever so slightly less and tooth engagement smoother, but I prefer the fatter comfort grip of the snap on over the thinner profile mac. Snap on will sell more dual 80s due to its overwhelming market satration, but I for one will grab my mac axis over my dual 80 every time. It doesnt hurt that the mac axis head is smaller and better looking to boot.

I have two MAC axis ratchets in 3/8 drive , I grab them before my dual 80. After the MAC is broken in , it has so little backdrag. MAC did a fantastic job with these ratchets.

 

[MDK22]

I prefer my Expert Pear heads. Broken 2 other peoples Dual 80s. I own the Matco 100 tooth round head its nice but, i can tell if i put real power behind it i will end its life.

Number of teeth past 72 rarely matters. I prefer quick release and Snap-Ons button sticks out allowing me to accidentally drop sockets in tight spots when it brushes up against hoses, wires, etc.

In all honesty I like the Mac Axis ones but, guess what no quick release. So unless i grind/cut off a SO button Expert is the way to go for me. I also hate locking heads they never lock at the angle i need them at. So.......

 

[SVTDice]

Well this thread got derailed rather quickly, Anyways, I thought I'd throw in my thoughts on this. I have an Armstrong 88 tooth, Dual 80, GW 120Xp, Craftsman 84 tooth and a few others that are not as high in the teeth counts. Let me put it this way, They are all fantastic ratchets. I find my 120Xp the smoothest of them all, Infact I find my Armstrong down right course in comparison of my 120. However, I LOVE the locking feature of the Armstrong and that is one of its strongest features, I also love the handle the best out of all of them as well. But out of all of them I probably grab my 120Xp the most unless I need a locking feature or in very tight places (Armstrong is a fair bit thinner, head wise)

However you guys are making me very curious about the Mac Axis, Do I need it? Nope but I sure do want it.

 

[Scotland Offshore ABZ]

Does anyone know if Snap-On make a 1/2" drive version of the FN100 or Zero?

 

[Bigblue&Goldie]

Does anyone know if Snap-On make a 1/2" drive version of the FN100 or Zero?

No. The 3/8" FN100 seems like it could be long enough to be 1/2" though!

 

[M6erfan]

I prefer my Expert Pear heads. Broken 2 other peoples Dual 80s. I own the Matco 100 tooth round head its nice but, i can tell if i put real power behind it i will end its life.

Number of teeth past 72 rarely matters. I prefer quick release and Snap-Ons button sticks out allowing me to accidentally drop sockets in tight spots when it brushes up against hoses, wires, etc.

In all honesty I like the Mac Axis ones but, guess what no quick release. So unless i grind/cut off a SO button Expert is the way to go for me. I also hate locking heads they never lock at the angle i need them at. So.......

Quick search on those Expert ratchets shows Proto and Britool, which ones are you talking about?

EDIT: Never mind, they look like the same ratchet...

 

[ladams17]

This thread is useless without pictures...


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[MDK22]

Quick search on those Expert ratchets shows Proto and Britool, which ones are you talking about?

EDIT: Never mind, they look like the same ratchet...

I believe you found the ones to which I was talking but, here are links. They are pinned which can be a nuisance but..... Also do not get a whole lot of brakleen on the rubber handles they will eat it. just wiping them off with a rag wet with brakleen once in a while leaves no visible damage.

Amazon: Expert 3/8 Drive E031702

Amazonn: Expert 1/2" Drive E032803

Very strong ratchets they were a lot cheaper when they came out it was $37 dollars for the 3/8 and $47 for the 1/2. They are my go to ratchets and I have put way way to much force behind both of them. My mentor broke 3/8 drive on something he really should have been using a 1/2" drive on (5yr old rusted caliper bracket bolts Chevy) Hit it with his palm with the ratchet loose snapped just 1 tooth. Note this was on the second bolt on his side and was after 1.5yrs of hard use.

The 1/2" I have yet to break. I have put pipes on the 1/2" though I do not recommend it. Bowed the shaft but it returned back. It did cut into the rubber with the pipe though. Pipe was 3ft section of big rig tie rod essential thick wall hydraulic pipe. I also lent the 1st 3/8th to someone after it was 3 yrs old and had been rebuilt he decided to use it as a hammer and the pin came out (go figure) That is when i had it replaced 2nd one had a defect on the ball bearing. (Mac driver was surprised it was the first manufacturing defect he had seen in over 20 ratchets he sold) Replaced with another 2 mins later and no issues out of it. Used it on stuff people broke their dual 80s on and it is still going strong.

 

[Loscaldazar]

I believe you found the ones to which I was talking but, here are links. They are pinned which can be a nuisance but..... Also do not get a whole lot of brakleen on the rubber handles they will eat it. just wiping them off with a rag wet with brakleen once in a while leaves no visible damage.

Amazon: Expert 3/8 Drive E031702

Amazonn: Expert 1/2" Drive E032803

Very strong ratchets they were a lot cheaper when they came out it was $37 dollars for the 3/8 and $47 for the 1/2. They are my go to ratchets and I have put way way to much force behind both of them. My mentor broke 3/8 drive on something he really should have been using a 1/2" drive on (5yr old rusted caliper bracket bolts Chevy) Hit it with his palm with the ratchet loose snapped just 1 tooth. Note this was on the second bolt on his side and was after 1.5yrs of hard use.

The 1/2" I have yet to break. I have put pipes on the 1/2" though I do not recommend it. Bowed the shaft but it returned back. It did cut into the rubber with the pipe though. Pipe was 3ft section of big rig tie rod essential thick wall hydraulic pipe. I also lent the 1st 3/8th to someone after it was 3 yrs old and had been rebuilt he decided to use it as a hammer and the pin came out (go figure) That is when i had it replaced 2nd one had a defect on the ball bearing. (Mac driver was surprised it was the first manufacturing defect he had seen in over 20 ratchets he sold) Replaced with another 2 mins later and no issues out of it. Used it on stuff people broke their dual 80s on and it is still going strong.

That expert ratchet is a standard 72T Taiwan ratchet (sold under hundreds of different names). While incredibly strong, smooth, low back drag and affordable (and arguably the best budget ratchet in existence), it is verifiably weaker than a Dual 80.

That 72T 1/2 drive design is rated from around 400 Ft-lbs to 500 Ft-lbs depending on what specs the Customer requests from the manufacturer (what steel is used in the ratchet gear and pawls). Tekton advertises their 72T ratchet at just under 500 Ft-lbs (making that one of the highest advertised ratings for the 72T Taiwan ratchet). This is roughly 130% of the ANSI torque ratings (133% actually). Snap On D80 in 1/2 is rated at around 700 Ft-lbs (roughly 190%).

For the price, the 72T is wonderful. It is not a Dual 80 though. Glad it's serving you well though!

 

[nanofrog]

My Armstrong 11-994 showed up, and my dealings with JB Tool has been good.

It was dry as a bone inside, so I used some silicone grease, which helped matters quite a bit. I really do like the locking mechanism, and the handle works well for me.

There's some minor chrome issues, but the thing that's really bothering me is there's issues with the On/Off lever; primarily being it won't move to the desired direction without rotating the square drive, though it's jammed on me a few times as well (it's a PITA).

Is this ^ normal on this particular ratchet?