Dumb motor heater question: jumper?

[PCustoms]

Ran into this today, switch feeds a deep well pump (controller is gutted and used as a j-box).

1. Why use a motor heater?
2. That jumper just makes this just a switch, correct?

Won't get into why I had this opened up, other then to say I'm almost clear of wiring issues from the previous owner!

 

[mm08822]

A motor heater is a current sensitive element that creates heat based upon the current flowing thru it. There are many heater sizes that correspond to different ranges of currents. If too much current passes thru the heater element, it creates enough heat to melt the solder in a small solder pot. This allows a ratchet to move and open the circuit protecting the motor from overload.

The jumper you found eliminates the motor protection!

My guess is the pump was replaced and no one thought to verify the correct heater size is used. The jumper was added once it was discovered the o/l was tripping. The motor nameplate current is required to properly size it.
The nameplate is down in the well.

Also there is 12 gauge rx feeding the switch and 14 gauge coming out of it. What size cb is used?

 

[PCustoms]

Also there is 12 gauge rx feeding the switch and 14 gauge coming out of it. What size cb is used?

Damn I should have cropped better!

Wiring was a mess in entire house, I could have a whole subforum on how the "electrician" PO had things wired. Basically I rewired the whole house, minus a few things I hadn't got to yet. This was 14-2 UF stapled to the bottom of the floor joists across the basement, fed with a 20A breaker. When I swapped a new panel in I guess I missed it, and put it on a 20A again.

Was running another run into the utility room yesterday and noticed it, so ran the 12/2 this morning, that's when I saw the jumper. I need to get a piece of liquidtite and a junction box to replace the last 4' to the pump and pressure switch.

I'm pretty sure the pump has been replaced, as it has a redjacket controller on the wall, but it's been gutted and is only used as a junction for the 14-2 switch leg you see to the pump wire. I don't know if this switch is supposed to have the heater, or if it is some cast off AB from the plant the PO worked at.

It's amazing how every simple thing here turned into a ***********...

 

[PCustoms]

Well, to emphasize my *********** comment, I went back and looked at what I need to finish this job.

The submersible pump wire exits what appears the be poly water pipe, and is hanging in a loop exposed. Looking close: 14 awg!?

Pretty pissed I didn't see that yesterday, as I bought a new roll of 12-2 partly to run to this. Was 14 ever allowed on a 20A breaker?

I wonder if the damn pump will even run on a 15A....

 

[mm08822]

This is a motor circuit. Overcurrent protection in a dedicated motor circuit can exceed "standard" ampacities. Need the motor details to be certain what can be used. Normally you don't mix 'n match wire gauge in a circuit.

Put a clamp-on meter on and note amperage.

Maybe the Manual starter switch is as you thought - just used as a service disconnect switch. The controller or even internal to the pump can contain the o/l device.

Is the pump a 2 wire or 3 wire?

Only way to be certain of circuit details and if overload protection is provided otherwise, is to gather the part #'s of controller, pump and motor. Hopefully someone left this info for you.

If not, are there any service stickers around? If so, call that company and ask for pump, motor and controller part numbers.

No details = Only guesses.

 

[PCustoms]

Ive been reading section 430.5 and 240.4, so this is stsrtong to come together. Honestly just assumed it shoukd be 12awg, so ran it. I can pull a 14 awg no problem. If I understand correctly, 20A on the 14awg would be OK, but I would need some sort of overload protection at (well as close as I can get it) the motor?

Pump is a 2 wire. No information availible, so I guess I'll bust out the clamp meter.

 

[PCustoms]

About 4.8A running.

Here's a pic of the original control guts. Looks like something exploded at one point. Red and Black are both hot, yellow is being used as ground.

Based on this I bet it will run fine on a 15A breaker, thoughts?

 

[mm08822]

About 4.8A running.

Here's a pic of the original control guts. Looks like something exploded at one point. Red and Black are both hot, yellow is being used as ground.

Based on this I bet it will run fine on a 15A breaker, thoughts?

I don't find any pic. Probably cap blew up or relay.

Without more info its hard to say where the pump is running in terms of FLA.
Pump depth would effect motor load. Could be 1/2 hp - maybe.

I believe a 2 wire pump uses internal protection only. Controllers are usually sized to match the motor attached to it. At least when everything is new.

As long as this is a dedicated circuit, it couldn't hurt to change out cb to 15a. Leave the cabling alone. No need to change it. If the 15 trips go back to 20.

Any nameplate info available from the controller?

 

[PCustoms]

Sorry, here's the pic.

I'm assuming at some point the pump was replaced. House was built in '85, well may predate that as there was a building here before. I'm assuming when that was done the controller became obsolete, and was bypassed with the wire nuts. It does note it was originally 1/2 hp.

I measured the 4.8A with it running, couldn't catch startup current. As far as I am aware, the 2 wire setups don't need a controller, as everything is down at the motor (which is a PITA if a cap goes).

The circuit is dedicated, I'll get a 15A breaker next time I am in town. You think I should just leave the 12 awg?

 

[mm08822]

Yes leave the #12 as is. If you are looking for something to do -get rid of the old controller.

 

[PCustoms]

Yes leave the #12 as is. If you are looking for something to do -get rid of the old controller.

Already on "the list". I want to run a ice of sealtite to the pressure switch and get the submersible wire in some form of condiut where it is exposed.

 

[alfredeneuman]

The circuit is dedicated, I'll get a 15A breaker next time I am in town. You think I should just leave the 12 awg?

Yes leave the #12.
If motor fails to start right away and blows the 15A C/B, you're allowed to go up to the next size breaker (20A)

 

[matt_i]

I have a switch similar to that, I'm not sure if it contains an overload heater because I never removed the cover. I assumed it was just a (non lockable!) disconnect but still useful if working on the pressure tank, etc.

Is it self-resetting if the element cools down enough or is there some kind of "RESET" pushbutton on the case or cover?

 

[alfredeneuman]

Is it self-resetting if the element cools down enough or is there some kind of "RESET" pushbutton on the case or cover?

You reset it just as would do a circuit breaker. 0
Turn it all the way to off (EDIT:It might take quite a bit of force) , and back on again.