Rick12
Member
I have a duplex plug in the garage and want to put a sink close and think I should have a gfi. Is it a special gfi outlet, or is there a way to break the hot connector ?
Duplex plug with gfi
- Thread starter Rick12
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Speedy Petey
Well-known member
Current codes require ALL 120V 15 & 20A receptacles in a garage to be GFI protected.
I would find the first receptacle in the string in the garage and put the GFI there, using the LINE and LOAD terminals so everything down stream is protected.
I would find the first receptacle in the string in the garage and put the GFI there, using the LINE and LOAD terminals so everything down stream is protected.
justsam
Well-known member
Might be easier to just put in a GFI breaker, if you are not up to determining which receptacle is first is the string, and then do as suggested above.
Few bucks more but easier to do, and protects the circuit from panel out as opposed to first receptacle out.
Few bucks more but easier to do, and protects the circuit from panel out as opposed to first receptacle out.
zmaxmotorsports
Well-known member
That depends on the age of the garage and how it has been wired.
agree. I'd offer advice but I only have experience removing GFI's...
It will be hard to tell if all the outlets are on an isolated neutral back to the box. If not, no go.
Thanks for replies.That depends on the age of the garage and how it has been wired.
Garage was built in the 1970's and has multiples of outlets...110 & 220. The duplex plug I want to change has two outlets and two breakers of course. I thought it would be easiest to add gfi outlet, but not sure if there are two types...one for single versus duplex?
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
So its one physical outlet but its a MWBC/multiwire branch circuit where theres 2 hots a shared neutral and ground?
justsam
Well-known member
Are both of the receptacles HOT all the time, or is one switched?
As asked above, is there one or two neutrals brought in?
Is this a subpanel in the garage, is garage attached to home?
Are you in the US? Your spelling of center makes me ask.
As asked above, is there one or two neutrals brought in?
Is this a subpanel in the garage, is garage attached to home?
Are you in the US? Your spelling of center makes me ask.
teamextreme
Well-known member
2 circuits feeding a single duplex is kind of overkill. Unless you have a specific need for this configuration, I'd remove one circuit from the GFI, cap it off in the box, and feed the new GFI with the other circuit. They don't make a GFI that accepts 2 circuits. The circuit will then be there in the box for future use. You can run a circuit from that box to another recep or load in the future as necessary.
House was built in the late 50's and the garage is a separate building built in the 70's.
It's purpose was a shop. So the electrical was originally for purpose of machine placement. So yes there is a lot of overkill.
The hydro now originates in the garage and holds the main panel. Then goes underground to a sub panel in the house. Yeah, I guess it was some major upgrade when the garage was built.
I've decided to bring in an electrician to make it right for my needs. It's obviously safest way.
Cheers everyone.
It's purpose was a shop. So the electrical was originally for purpose of machine placement. So yes there is a lot of overkill.
The hydro now originates in the garage and holds the main panel. Then goes underground to a sub panel in the house. Yeah, I guess it was some major upgrade when the garage was built.
I've decided to bring in an electrician to make it right for my needs. It's obviously safest way.
Cheers everyone.
sberry
Banned
A guy could split it easily if he was willing to enlarge or add another box. Make a tool circuit. A gfci is a good thing, I have a couple am going to change/add or modify on my bucket list.
Spending the years fixing all the mistakes I made the first 10 or 15. I am at least on my own instead of others.
But the OP has some concept here already which is a good thing. I have been doing a lot of contemplating over these 4 wires. 5 if you count the wire to the rod. I understood a lot of stuff one piece at a time but my mentors were poor teachers and never really impressed on me really didn't understand how it worked and my formal education was lacking, hand to mouth and piecemeal at best.
It took me a long time to learn and am still obsessing over the details. I should find an early code book or 2 and look back. Where my interest falls is basically the interconnection of 2 panels, new, old, new to old and old to new etc. Making sure there is a short circuit pathway while trying to insulate neutral currents if possible.
For giggles I had a look in a service in an old church. Remnants of 5 different mechanics. I only spent a few minutes in there but could figure from forensic who some were from my neighborhood. I believe the original install was by a guy I actually met that was rocking chair age when I was about 6 or 7 maybe. My Dad said he did an old barn we had and as I recall it was neat and well stapled etc.
I can see the wire marking changes and identify them with when the work was done and spot a local handyman I bet they called for a furnace service and maybe a water heater.
I see a layer where they employed a real master to touch it up. He is a genius but aint out for extra work, he made sure it was safe and fixed boogers and did the best he could do with a panel which was crowded and too few spaces. He disconnected some equipment handyman had left in series that was not needed.
The guy also knew the load was negligible, all gas appliances now and someone had ran new wire to a couple kitchen circuits were used on occasion, no AC, the whole place will run on 30A service.
He could see both ends of some old wire he connected to and knew that the lighting load was decreasing and the switches left it all off and disconnected when not in use.
The panel is half tandems, 15 and 20 and the guy had put new to the box with 3 conductor and split off to some old circuits via Jbox under a closet fixture and some old equipment boxes. Some of the splits went to 14 wire, one part of the circuit at 15A and one 20 and I found one where some one missed it and ran same leg to the box, want a real issue as this was a low load light deal and no general outlets on it.
In general the place looks good. The only problem is with those who know just enough to be dangerous. Surprisingly its not the fool but the PHD who makes sure he finds some one he deems qualified and gets a commitment to help vs getting a real assessment of the situation and come to the conclusion that there is no problem or minor problem or a modest problem.
Whe you want them to do something they wont and when it doesn't matter they do.
Spending the years fixing all the mistakes I made the first 10 or 15. I am at least on my own instead of others.
But the OP has some concept here already which is a good thing. I have been doing a lot of contemplating over these 4 wires. 5 if you count the wire to the rod. I understood a lot of stuff one piece at a time but my mentors were poor teachers and never really impressed on me really didn't understand how it worked and my formal education was lacking, hand to mouth and piecemeal at best.
It took me a long time to learn and am still obsessing over the details. I should find an early code book or 2 and look back. Where my interest falls is basically the interconnection of 2 panels, new, old, new to old and old to new etc. Making sure there is a short circuit pathway while trying to insulate neutral currents if possible.
For giggles I had a look in a service in an old church. Remnants of 5 different mechanics. I only spent a few minutes in there but could figure from forensic who some were from my neighborhood. I believe the original install was by a guy I actually met that was rocking chair age when I was about 6 or 7 maybe. My Dad said he did an old barn we had and as I recall it was neat and well stapled etc.
I can see the wire marking changes and identify them with when the work was done and spot a local handyman I bet they called for a furnace service and maybe a water heater.
I see a layer where they employed a real master to touch it up. He is a genius but aint out for extra work, he made sure it was safe and fixed boogers and did the best he could do with a panel which was crowded and too few spaces. He disconnected some equipment handyman had left in series that was not needed.
The guy also knew the load was negligible, all gas appliances now and someone had ran new wire to a couple kitchen circuits were used on occasion, no AC, the whole place will run on 30A service.
He could see both ends of some old wire he connected to and knew that the lighting load was decreasing and the switches left it all off and disconnected when not in use.
The panel is half tandems, 15 and 20 and the guy had put new to the box with 3 conductor and split off to some old circuits via Jbox under a closet fixture and some old equipment boxes. Some of the splits went to 14 wire, one part of the circuit at 15A and one 20 and I found one where some one missed it and ran same leg to the box, want a real issue as this was a low load light deal and no general outlets on it.
In general the place looks good. The only problem is with those who know just enough to be dangerous. Surprisingly its not the fool but the PHD who makes sure he finds some one he deems qualified and gets a commitment to help vs getting a real assessment of the situation and come to the conclusion that there is no problem or minor problem or a modest problem.
Whe you want them to do something they wont and when it doesn't matter they do.
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sberry
Banned
When they upgraded some electric they actually removed 2 appliances that may have ran at the same time from the old 60A. Now the have a modern disconnect feeds a panel via 4 copper wires in a plastic pipe with 100A service and half the peak load.
Of course some AC guy said if they wanted it which is about a waste that it could use a 30 or 40A breaker and since the panel is crowed we must need more power.
Of course some AC guy said if they wanted it which is about a waste that it could use a 30 or 40A breaker and since the panel is crowed we must need more power.
53Sparky
Well-known member
There are a lot of homes in Canada that are wired this way. It's not necessarily a full dedicated circuit for each half of the receptacle. They call it "split receptacles" with 2 circuits spread over multiple locations.
GFI's are not problematic if the stuff you use downstream is wired correctly. It takes just as much time to pull OUT a GFI as it does to fix your problematic load. Everything in my shop is GFI protected, and I can't think of the last time one was tripped.agree. I'd offer advice but I only have experience removing GFI's...
Up here in the frozen north we call them "split" receptacles.
It used to be code requirement for a split to be in the kitchen.
I think that is no longer a requirement though since the new requirement is to have a 20A receptacle.
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MikeF2316
Well-known member
Generally that was a kitchen thing. You could then put a second duplex outlet on the same circuit, but not the one physically next to the original. The idea was that someone working in one spot could plug a heavy current device into any/all of 4 closest spots without causing any grief. But I see that's not required any more.
Yup, the only time my GFIs pop is when I'm testing them.
JCQuick
Well-known member
I just wired my new build I used 20amp GFI Breakers for the run's. The inspector loved it and commented that I could have done it cheaper by using a gfi receiptical
justsam
Well-known member
I finally did the same thing, after "head end" gfi receptacles getting covered up by shelves etc. in my garage. One string was originally done with head end on an outside outlet!
With breakers all gfi in one location and protection from panel out.