Duralast revisted

[bsaint]

Funny how one of the biggest engine manufacturers in the world uses someone elses engine (Hyundai/Kia.) And no car maker uses their own transmissions.

 

[HandyManny]

Tools like this is going to do to the tool industry what Toyota did to the US automarket. It's will weed out the bad stuff and make the good stuff better. Nothing like some competition to make better goods. If a lot of this stuff wasn't any good Sears wouldn't look like a ghost town. Like Lee Iacocaa said "Lead, Follow or get out of the way".

I understand the whole COO and pride of ownership. I'm not blasting that. But I do completely agree with the quote from mrholeshot I pasted above. Many domestic manufacturers have let quality and functionality slide way down hill in recent years, to even unacceptable levels. As long as the American consumer keeps accepting this failure or looking the other way and buying these inferior products then these corporations will keep making less than quality products and have no incentive to improve while still charging us more and more money. The USA is about being the best that you can be, at least at one time it was. We need to get back that mentality. If a domestic company can't offer me a good product then I won't give them my money. Let them die out by attrition or allow competition to make them improve to stay alive. Do your best to get ahead, earn it. That's a concept that has unfortunately taken a far back-seat with todays Americans.

 

[bsaint]

Yea screw americans. Lets just buy foreign china stuff and we'll keep the unemployment at 12%.

 

[MrMark]

I wish "soul" would fix cars but i don't. Blood, sweat, and duralast ratchets do

How old are you, just curious?

 

[stricht8]

"Soul" is important though. Cars with a "soul" are the ones that get restored. I'm sometimes more motivated to fix something when it had a soul and when I have tools with a soul at my disposal. We are weird creatures that are driven to like certain things or fo certain things sometimes based upon emotion alone. Why is that? And why is it that most of us can universally identify those same cars or tools have a soul. I like Mercedes cars. Why is that? Well, there are a few reasons. First of all I grew up with them. Second of all Daimler and Benz first invented the gasoline powered automobile- this gives the brand heritage and is something to be proud of. After reading the history of the company I was even more intrigued by the mark. Bertha Benz drove her husbands prototype to het home town 50 miles away with her young children just to prove that this invention was roadworthy. Her husband Carl had no idea. The car broke down several times and she repaired everything by herself on the road, MacGuyver style. She used her garter belt to repair a broken belt and her hairpin for something else. Thirdly, they made a great product for many years. How can the KIA story whatever it us possibly compare? This is where "soul" and pride of ownership and brand loyalty come into play. This just can't and won't happen with a KIA or a Toyota or some genetic ratchet built in some no name plant in Taiwan.

 

[HandyManny]

Geez sorry I ever mentioned Kia.

I don't think you get my point. In 40 years how do you think this ratchet will hold up? Do you think the quality of chrome and thickness of chrome, the alloy makeup, the steel used to make the mechanism, etc etc will hold up? If you think it'll hold up great that awesome. Nothing like supporting cheap labor and piss poor working conditions. Right on!

Keep in mind that chrome plating done here in the USA is now so restricted by the EPA in what can and can't be used or done. This has resulted in domstic chrome plating recently being very poor and shoddy. I've seen peeling chrome on a lot of newer Craftsman tools and even some very new Proto sockets. I was given a new Zippo lighter a month ago and the chrome plating is noticeably thinner and poorly done, even compared to lighers made 8 years ago. EPA regulation have restricted many types of practices and many steps that were once used to make a quality product in this country. Those steps being cut out have resulted in much lesser quality plating. Taiwan can still include those original steps into their process and are currently producing quality plating. A Rockwell hardness test was done of the steel internals of the Duralast ratchet and found to be on par with Snap-On internals.

 

[I can fix anything]

Yea screw americans. Lets just buy foreign china stuff and we'll keep the unemployment at 12%.

If your unemployed its your own fault do something about it. When the dealership i worked at closed, I sucked it up. I did not sit around and go "what do i do now". I opened my own repair shop and kept right on going, never took a cent in unemployment welfare money.

 

[I can fix anything]

How old are you, just curious?

I am 32 years old

 

[HandyManny]

Yea screw americans. Lets just buy foreign china stuff and we'll keep the unemployment at 12%.

Well as long as we keep working ourselves out of a job and finding newer automated and innovative ways to do our jobs, we'll be screwing ourselves too. 12% unemployment isn't the Chinese fault. Blame corporate America, government tax incentives, and the EPA in part for that.

 

[I can fix anything]

Yea screw americans. Lets just buy foreign china stuff and we'll keep the unemployment at 12%.

And i have said this before. So what if some guy got paid a quarter to make a ratchet. An american working for autozone got paid to sell it to you right?

 

[MrMark]

If your unemployed its your own fault do something about it. When the dealership i worked at closed, I sucked it up. I did not sit around and go "what do i do now". I opened my own repair shop and kept right on going, never took a cent in unemployment welfare money.

Problem is, America needs manufacturing jobs. Not everyone can work in the service sector like you. Not everyone can be a lawyer or sell real estate. Kuddos to you for opening your own place. That is always impressive.

 

[MrMark]

And i have said this before. So what if some guy got paid a quarter to make a ratchet. An american working for autozone got paid to sell it to you right?

That's a really bad analysis for a whole lot of reasons. You need to think that through some. It may ease your mind at the time of purchase, but those kind of jobs are not what creates wealth and prosperity for Americans.

 

[MrMark]

Well as long as we keep working ourselves out of a job and finding newer automated and innovative ways to do our jobs, we'll be screwing ourselves too. 12% unemployment isn't the Chinese fault. Blame corporate America, government tax incentives, and the EPA in part for that.

You should also blame American consumers for not being willing to pay a small premium for American goods. So you blamed everyone but yourself. I will always pay a small premium for a domestic product.

 

[I can fix anything]

That's a really bad analysis for a whole lot of reasons. You need to think that through some. It may ease your mind at the time of purchase, but those kind of jobs are not what creates wealth and prosperity for Americans.

Guts it what creates wealth and you either got em or not.

 

[HandyManny]

"Soul" is important though. Cars with a "soul" are the ones that get restored. I'm sometimes more motivated to fix something when it had a soul and when I have tools with a soul at my disposal. We are weird creatures that are driven to like certain things or fo certain things sometimes based upon emotion alone. Why is that? And why is it that most of us can universally identify those same cars or tools have a soul. I like Mercedes cars. Why is that? Well, there are a few reasons. First of all I grew up with them. Second of all Daimler and Benz first invented the gasoline powered automobile- this gives the brand heritage and is something to be proud of. After reading the history of the company I was even more intrigued by the mark. Bertha Benz drove her husbands prototype to het home town 50 miles away with her young children just to prove that this invention was roadworthy. Her husband Carl had no idea. The car broke down several times and she repaired everything by herself on the road, MacGuyver style. She used her garter belt to repair a broken belt and her hairpin for something else. Thirdly, they made a great product for many years. How can the KIA story whatever it us possibly compare? This is where "soul" and pride of ownership and brand loyalty come into play. This just can't and won't happen with a KIA or a Toyota or some genetic ratchet built in some no name plant in Taiwan.

A lot of enthusiasts will say that about British cars as well. Pride of ownership, image they have built up in their minds. But if you ask me any car that requires a team of personal mechanics just to keep it going day to day isn't a good vehicle in my book. There's a reason why those cars depreciate so steeply within just a few years. Maybe Mecedes was a fine car at one time. I don'tknow about today. Mercedes is like Ford or GM, they make a lot of different type vehicles for many uses. Here in the USA a Mercedes is only known as a luxury vehicle, around the world you see Mercedes trash trucks and bread delivery trucks. Ford makes the Mustang, Lincoln, etc. GM makes the Corvette and Camero, etc. Both make utility trucks as well.

 

[HandyManny]

You should also blame American consumers for not being willing to pay a small premium for American goods. So you blamed everyone but yourself. I will always pay a small premium for a domestic product.

When I see an inferior product stamped USA why would I pay a premium for it? That's just stupid. Quality is not what it used to be among many USA made products these days. Granted there are still a few high quality doemstic makers around. I have no problem with passing up a low quality USA made product in favor of a high quality same priced imported product. Competition can only make our domestic makers better, if not they they die out by attrition. Sad fact. We should not accept nor support mediocrecy in this country much less pay a premium for it.

 

[HandyManny]

Problem is, America needs manufacturing jobs. Not everyone can work in the service sector like you. Not everyone can be a lawyer or sell real estate. Kuddos to you for opening your own place. That is always impressive.

Actually most Americans are unwilling to take such jobs in the manufacturing trades these days. Most here today no longer have the skills nor the desire to do these jobs. Most Americans feel it's benieth them. Don't know why!!

 

[Davefr]

That's because of decades of unions. Unions usually treated the US employers as the enemy while dumbing down the quality standards of their members. Meanwhile they continually demanded more pay and benefits without any economic/ROI justification.

It's no surprise that manufacturing is leaving the country.

 

[MrMark]

When I see an inferior product stamped USA why would I pay a premium for it? That's just stupid. Quality is not what it used to be among many USA made products these days. Granted there are still a few high quality doemstic makers around. I have no problem with passing up a low quality USA made product in favor of a high quality same priced imported product. Competition can only make our domestic makers better, if not they they die out by attrition. Sad fact. We should not accept nor support mediocrecy in this country much less pay a premium for it.

I guess I don't see what you are seeing. I am not seeing this poor quality that you see. Some craftsman, but by no means all craftsman, have lesser quality then they use to have. They are still not poor quality, except maybe certain ratchets that have issues.

Why don't you list some of these USA made products that you are seeing of such poor quality.

I thought USA made Vise Grips were of poor quality, for example.

It would be nice if you would provide such examples other than the Craftsman ratchets

You understand, of course, that our USA manufacturers cannot compete at the same price point vs slave labor so if your whole argument is that you want the same product at the same price then you can pick up your marbles and you win as you have it all figured out.

 

[MrMark]

That's because of decades of unions. Unions usually treated the US employers as the enemy while dumbing down the quality standards of their members. Meanwhile they continually demanded more pay and benefits without any economic/ROI justification.

It's no surprise that manufacturing is leaving the country.

I agree but you shouldn't bring that up. There are three religions in this world:

religion
guns, and
unions.

These items cannot be intelligently discussed.

 

[Theloniousmonk]

That's because of decades of unions. Unions usually treated the US employers as the enemy while dumbing down the quality standards of their members. Meanwhile they continually demanded more pay and benefits without any economic/ROI justification.

It's no surprise that manufacturing is leaving the country.

Wow... and I thought this site was "politics free"...

Manufacturing has left this country due to basic single-minded business practices (singular bottom line beliefs), nothing more - nothing less.

Union membership has dropped dramatically over the last three decades, along w/ an equal or greater drop in manufacturing jobs.

Am

 

[HandyManny]

I guess I don't see what you are seeing. I am not seeing this poor quality that you see. Some craftsman, but by no means all craftsman, have lesser quality then they use to have. They are still not poor quality, except maybe certain ratchets that have issues.

Why don't you list some of these USA made products that you are seeing of such poor quality.

I thought USA made Vise Grips were of poor quality, for example.

It would be nice if you would provide such examples other than the Craftsman ratchets

You understand, of course, that our USA manufacturers cannot compete at the same price point vs slave labor so if your whole argument is that you want the same product at the same price then you can pick up your marbles and you win as you have it all figured out.

To name a few:

Most Craftsman ratchets, sockets, and extentions don't even compare to the Duralast stuff.

When is Allen going to start chamfering the ends of their hex drive tools.

Some newer USA made Proto sockets missing the detent recess in the square section of some sockets. And I've loved, owned, and used a large amount of Proto hand tools in my life.

The quality of chrome plating done on most domestic tools is far inferior these days. Peeling, flaking, thin, etc. I've even seen this on the shelf in stores

Mislabled sizes on various sockets from a few domestic makers recently.

There just isn't room here for it all. But with the exception of a few Cman tools, Sears and Craftsman is a classic example of this poor quality in a domestic made product. Stanley has a few too. It's embarrassing.

Why don't you just go pick up a Duralast ratchet, socket, or extention and feel it in your hands. See how they compare to some truck brands. Don't let the fact that they are made in Taiwan scare you. I think you'd be surprised

I say this as someone who always looks first to buy American made tools, when I can find the quality. In fact the vast majority (about 98%) of my hand tools are older high quality USA made tools from respected brands that I bought over many years, years ago. I have a lot of high quality tools to compare with. Not to mension I've used my fair share of quality tools over many years. I know a good tool when I see it and use it. I also know **** when I see it and use it. My point is that a lot of USA made stuff isn't nearly as good as it could be or should be. The Duralast stuff is actually a bit more expensive than the equivelent Craftsman tools, but I'm willing to pay a bit more for the much higher quality of the Duralast. That is, when I need something. I don't need many more tools, only just to replace some stuff that winds up missing or stuff I occasionally break.

 

[Hiball]

Why don't you just go pick up a Duralast ratchet, socket, or extention and feel it in your hands. See how they compare to some truck brands. Don't let the fact that they are made in Taiwan scare you. I think you'd be surprised

Not Happening.

 

[HandyManny]

Not Happening.

No problem, but you have no legitimate opinion about them then.

 

[Theloniousmonk]

... My point is that a lot of USA made stuff isn't nearly as good as it could be or should be.

or USED to be...

case:

Craftsman 1/2 univ. joint.

I have one w/ the "V" date stamp... can't remember who made it. Has a full 180deg. swing on the joint to drive, with reliefs on the socket end for clearance, pivots are joined w/ roll pins (easily rebuildable) - awesome joint, still use it often, it's still tight after many years of use.

I also have a NEW one w/ the VV stamp... Danahar, I believe. it has maybe a 90deg swing, if that, pivots are joined w/ rivets (don't even want to try to pound them out) It is semi-worthless, kinda loose out of the box, and unusable in quite a few applications where the old one IS...

- Price has increased over the years, quality has gone down. A company can not live off their earned respect from years past, sooner or later (as many of us are beginning to realize), the consumer will look elsewhere, and if the alternative is equal in quality (even better now), at a cheaper price then that is just good shopping.

 

[fordbroncodave]

poop on autozone

 

[Theloniousmonk]

flowers to "two trip Oriellys"?

 

[HandyManny]

Just want to make clear that I'm not ripping all current domestic Craftsman tools nor all USA tool makers. Theres is still quality to be found, it's just getting harder and harder to find as the years pass. I will say that so far I am very impressed with Duralast. I think who ever makes those tools has done a fantastic job.

 

[Hiball]

No problem, but you have no legitimate opinion about them then.

And i didnt exercise any such Opinion.

 

[I can fix anything]

And i didnt exercise any such Opinion.

I think thats what he meant.

 

[I can fix anything]

flowers to "two trip Oriellys"?

yep i buy from autozone only the little green aliens ****.

 

[Hiball]

I think thats what he meant.

I dont talk out of Hand just to impress somebody over the internet, I call them as i see them and im very clear on my reasons. If i dont have any first hand knowledge of the Product ill read the Opinions and make my own judgement. With that said, There are some factors that are gonna push me away from a product (Coo), I dont judge other people on there Consumer prowlness and i only ask that im not judged.

 

[HandyManny]

I dont talk out of Hand just to impress somebody over the internet, I call them as i see them and im very clear on my reasons. If i dont have any first hand knowledge of the Product ill read the Opinions and make my own judgement. With that said, There are some factors that are gonna push me away from a product (Coo), I dont judge other people on there Consumer prowlness and i only ask that im not judged.

Again...no problem.

 

[Hiball]

Again...no problem.

Yeah.. No Biggie.. It sounds like the Duralast Ratchet is appealing to many Here and has some Usage to back it up. I do question the longevity claims and Snap on Comparison claims but only time will tell. How long has Duralast been making ratchets? Does anyone have a 15 year old Duralast Ratchet?

 

[MrMark]

I just want to know what MrHoleshot uses the 5 pound dead blow for other than pulverizing Chinese ratchets and beating tires off of Mercedes Benzs?

 

[hguerrero]

no soul? really? have you ever researched the history of toyota? it's a great story and they have built some really hot vehicles.

Man, that is exactly how I feel about this whole thing. Yeah, the stuff works and all, but who wants it really. It's like driving a Toyota. I've never understood why anyone would buy a Toyota. Certainly not a "car" person. It has no soul.

 

[MrMark]

no soul? really? have you ever researched the history of toyota? it's a great story and they have built some really hot vehicles.

such as? ten characters

 

[Theloniousmonk]

Supra

RWD Celicas

 

[MrMark]

Yeah, the first Celicas were kind of cool in their day, but they are and were total rust buckets. I have NEVER seen one on the road even out here in SoCal where stuff lasts forever.

 

[north]

One at least. This of course proves that Duralast make awesome ratchets.