Dust Collector quit working; help please

[turbowoodworker]

Any assistance would be appreciated.

I have this rather new but discontinued model Delta dust filtration unit. It has a small squirrel cage blower motor and a complicated circuit board to acomodate a wireless remote, timer and multi speed setup.

There is no schematic in the user's manual.

It is on a dedicated 20 amp line in the ceiling where a second unit (older Jet model) is located. It works fine. One day I flipped it on (there is also a manual in line switch on the cord) and there was smoke from the motor. I have pulled the unit apart and there is smoke pattern inside the enclosure in the pattern of the motor itself, not the circuit board. There is no smoke discolorization around or on the board.

Now when I turn it on, the motor spins up and within a few seconds the five amp circuit breaker pops.

I have a multimeter but lack much in the way of electrical brains and experience. So as you lend your knowledge, talk slow, and don't use any big words. I am just a humble woodworker. Thank you in advance. Rick

 

[turbowoodworker]

BTW, there is a tiny amount of oily stuff on the side of the transformer not easily seen in the pictures. Not sure if that makes a difference in your answers.

 

[pattenp]

Is there a capacitor for the motor? May be that little box?

 

[turbowoodworker]

That was my guess. No smoke around it but there is no smoke stain on the motor proper.
If helpful I can post a picture of the specs on the capacitor. They are on the underside. Helpful?
Is that the likely culprit?

 

[6PTsocket]

My guess is that gets it's 3 speeds just like a ceiling fan. There are capacitors of different values in series with the mo

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[pattenp]

If the little black box is a capacitor it can be tested to see if it's bad. The spec will be needed to test plus you need a multimeter with cap test to get accurate test.

Here's a test with a standard multimeter.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks.
As you were posting, I was on Google and getting educated. So after reading about capacitors and testing, I inspected the black box. First thing I noticed was a small drip of plastic suggesting it had fried. Second, when the motor starts, it is running backwards before it trips the breaker. When I spin the motor by hand then apply power it runs in the correct direction then trips the breaker.
Info on the capacitor: 25 microFaraday at 70 deg
F/U/250VAC
Anything else?
Guessing I should just replace the capacitor? Will that alone likely fix the problem or could it have blown due or as a result of another underlying problem?
Thanks

 

[matt_i]

It would be worthwhile to replace the capacitor if you can find a low cost version but I suspect your motor windings are shorted somewhere, my guess is that it is not a hard short but may build up enough heat to start arcing more and more that eventually trips the circuit breaker within a few seconds.

 

[pattenp]

Get the same MFD of 25. The voltage can be higher than 250V, such as 340V. You may need to retrofit a round one.

Such as.... https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FBRFMPK/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It will still be a **** shoot if it fixes the problem if you can't do further checking of windings and such.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm thinking I'll order up a capacitor as it is the cheap route. If it works, great. If not I'm not out much.
Appreciate everyone's input.

 

[DeltaWye]

Guessing I should just replace the capacitor? Will that alone likely fix the problem or could it have blown due or as a result of another underlying problem?
Thanks

If your multimeter has a capacitance testing function - look for a symbol like this |( - you could try checking the value. Be aware that the capacitor may still be holding a charge on it even after the power has been disconnected so make sure you discharge it before touching the terminals.

There will be a tolerance marked on the cap, 20% is typical. If it's way off then the cap is bad. If it's within range, the cap may still be bad but unless you have other test equipment, you'd have to substitute a new one. If if was the cap that smoked, it should be obvious when you hold it under your nose. There's often visible damage when they go bad.

As another person said, the motor may have damage as well. Either one could have gone bad and taken out the other. Unless you have an insulation tester, you'd need to lug it to a motor repair shop. Or just buy a new cap (they go for around $10 around here) and cross your fingers.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Thanks. Ordered a cap. I will update with the results.

 

[6PTsocket]

Lets figure out what you have here. The motor plate says it is a 3 speed motor. How many wires are coming out of the motor? How many speeds is the filter supposed to have? How many wires are coming out of the capacitor? Does it work properly on any of the speeds? Before you mess with it you should figure what you have. If it is wired like a multi speed ceiling fan, an open cap would stop it from running at all and a shorted cap would make it run at your top speed.

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[turbowoodworker]

6PT,
As you can see in the third pic, there are four wires plus the ground from the motor. The cap has two wires only. The squirrel cage spins for a few seconds before popping internal 5 amp breaker so I can't tell what speed it gets to.
Also, it runs backwards so from what I've read, that means the cap is shot.

Your thoughts?
Thanks

 

[James-W]

Replace the capacitor, it will probably fix it.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Ordered. I'll update with results.

 

[6PTsocket]

I was not talking about measuring motor speed. The plate on the motor lists three speeds. It is more like a multi speed furnace blower fan. What I meant was to see if it would run at a different selected speed. Good luck with the cap.

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[turbowoodworker]

No it only runs then pops breaker. Changing speeds at the control panel does nothing.
Delivery of cap on Monday.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Switched out capacitor. No change in symptoms. Guess I'll get the motor to a shop that can properly diagnose it.
Thanks, all. I will update.

 

[pattenp]

Too bad the cap didn't work out for you. Best of luck on getting the motor fixed.

 

[turbowoodworker]

I appreciate your advice. It was a good try at least.

 

[turbowoodworker]

Update.
I found a replacement motor at Zoro and I'm up and running again.
Thanks to all for comments and advice.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

You did the right thing. Your symptoms were classic of a bad run capacitor. At least you got it running.

Tommy

 

[James-W]

Glad you were able to get it up and running. I would have bet real money it was the capacitor causing the problem.

 

[larry4406]

Turbowoodworker - good job on the repair!

I am thinking on buying one of these for my garage for general dust control. My understanding is that these have filters in them (like a furnace) and the air just circulates within the room.

Do they push a fair amount of air (noticeable breeze), how loud are they when running, etc?

What should I be looking for if I buy one? Brand?

 

[6PTsocket]

Update.
I found a replacement motor at Zoro and I'm up and running again.
Thanks to all for comments and advice.

Multispeed bolt in or a lot of fudging? How was it listed, furnace blower? Glad it's fixed.

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[turbowoodworker]

Larry,
Jet is good as is Rikon and Delta. JDS is supposed to be top of line.
These are for ceiling mount to get fine airborne particles, the bad stuff. They are not so much for dust collection as air filtration, but they really cut down on surface dust. I set mine to run two hours after I close up to get all the fines.

 

[Angelfire]

Turbowoodworker - good job on the repair!

I am thinking on buying one of these for my garage for general dust control. My understanding is that these have filters in them (like a furnace) and the air just circulates within the room.

Do they push a fair amount of air (noticeable breeze), how loud are they when running, etc?

What should I be looking for if I buy one? Brand?

I have a JDS version and as was mentioned, they really are for filtering the air, not collecting huge amounts of dust. A proper dust collection system wouldn't allow fine particles to ever leave the tool and get airborne to begin with but for most of us, we don't have that. So this is the next best thing to controlling the fine (read: dangerous) dust. Used in conjuction with other methods to capture the bigger stuff at the tool, it's not a bad compromise.

For mine, it's loud enough but not something you would need ear protection. I'd kind of put it in the same category as a stand fan on high. It really doesn't create any sort of breeze that I've noticed but clearly it is moving air as the filters get filled pretty quickly particularly if you're operating with no other dust collection in place.
Cheers.