Below 265 SQ/FT Dutch's small workshop thread.
- Thread starter dutchgray
- Start date
All workspaces below 265 squarefeet.
Been working on the lathe a bit more, discovered it wasn't oiling the apron, carriage, cross slide effectively, oil pump plunger spring is broken so it only had a very minimum amount of return travel.
In pulling the cross slide I discovered one of its clamping bolts is broken, will have to make one, luckily it has four so the other three will hold it while I do
The cross slide and leadscrew, bit grotty but very little wear, the nut is a bit stuck at the minute, the thing is packed full of brass chips and as it has a separate oiler I bet it never got enough oil.
The scraping is still evident on the underside of the cross slide. You can see the two part nut uses a wedge between to adjust the backlash. You can see there is a lot of brass chips buried in the lead screw cavity, which is open to the underside to let oil and muck drain out, and probably how the chips get in there.
In pulling the cross slide I discovered one of its clamping bolts is broken, will have to make one, luckily it has four so the other three will hold it while I do
The cross slide and leadscrew, bit grotty but very little wear, the nut is a bit stuck at the minute, the thing is packed full of brass chips and as it has a separate oiler I bet it never got enough oil.
The scraping is still evident on the underside of the cross slide. You can see the two part nut uses a wedge between to adjust the backlash. You can see there is a lot of brass chips buried in the lead screw cavity, which is open to the underside to let oil and muck drain out, and probably how the chips get in there.
New spring fitted to oil pump fixed that (9mm X 35mm X 1mm wire) and it now pumps plenty of oil around the apron, the saddle it gets up there but doesn't seem to get through the metering valves. I can't seem to get replacements but they do come apart so I should be able to clean them at some point.
The lead screw nut is so tight you can't wind it by hand on to the leadscrew, I will lap it in I think.
Metering valves
1/8" BSP both ends, about 45mm long, only markings is the flow direction and 1/4.
Before
Lots of brass chips in the oil sludge.
And after
Much better, some wear but it's mostly discolouration you can see, compared to my other lathe it's almost new.
Made and fitted the new wipers for the rear way, that's all of them done now
Also decided the chip/coolant guard from behind the chuck area was far to deep, so I chopped 9 1/2" of depth out of it.
Someone who does bits of fabrication for me will weld some sheet into it to fill the big hole I made back up. That guard used to weigh about 60lb, everything on this machine is stout.
The lead screw nut is so tight you can't wind it by hand on to the leadscrew, I will lap it in I think.
Metering valves
1/8" BSP both ends, about 45mm long, only markings is the flow direction and 1/4.
Before
Lots of brass chips in the oil sludge.
And after
Much better, some wear but it's mostly discolouration you can see, compared to my other lathe it's almost new.
Made and fitted the new wipers for the rear way, that's all of them done now
Also decided the chip/coolant guard from behind the chuck area was far to deep, so I chopped 9 1/2" of depth out of it.
Someone who does bits of fabrication for me will weld some sheet into it to fill the big hole I made back up. That guard used to weigh about 60lb, everything on this machine is stout.
Attachments
Well the lathe is back together and working well, I did lap the nuts onto the leadscrew, some yellow timesaver compound and a hours work and now it's perfect.
The Y pipe for the cross slide oil, the right hand side had blocked up so the oil was only really getting on the left side of the slide, not the best design to have in an oil system, should be one oil meter to one oil point IMO.
Have had a job to do, some internal threading to a shoulder, 11tpi on a metric lathe without a working thread dial, very glad it has a clutch reverse with a center brake that works.
Got a new to me slotting head as well, been looking for one of these for a reasonable price for ages.
I really would not want to try and hold it up and get it on the mill without a hoist, it's a very tight fit to the back end of the ram.
I tested it, it runs and the scraping on its ram is beautiful. I need to get some tooling for it now.
The Y pipe for the cross slide oil, the right hand side had blocked up so the oil was only really getting on the left side of the slide, not the best design to have in an oil system, should be one oil meter to one oil point IMO.
Have had a job to do, some internal threading to a shoulder, 11tpi on a metric lathe without a working thread dial, very glad it has a clutch reverse with a center brake that works.
Got a new to me slotting head as well, been looking for one of these for a reasonable price for ages.
I really would not want to try and hold it up and get it on the mill without a hoist, it's a very tight fit to the back end of the ram.
I tested it, it runs and the scraping on its ram is beautiful. I need to get some tooling for it now.
Went to one of the local carboot sales this morning, not one I go to all that often as its a 30 minute drive and opens at 6:30 so it means getting up properly early on a Sunday.
But I got an 8" Rohm 3 jaw chuck on a flat backplate, it's been used for milling, it's mostly just dirty, very minimal rust and it works well enough, best part it was £20.
I also bought a usable 8" Asian made milling vice for £40, which is about 55kg in weight.
I think it will go on the Radial arm drill, should work well enough for that use.
But I got an 8" Rohm 3 jaw chuck on a flat backplate, it's been used for milling, it's mostly just dirty, very minimal rust and it works well enough, best part it was £20.
I also bought a usable 8" Asian made milling vice for £40, which is about 55kg in weight.
I think it will go on the Radial arm drill, should work well enough for that use.
Half a day of cleaning and oiling and a very temporary electrical connection (Wago's are great) and the drill lives.
The backgear, powerfeed and the belt tension are still all stuck, and the spindle is quite tight, but the table is nice and free in all movements.
Contactors are a bit buzzy, I was running on the reverse side but with a pair of phases reversed so it was turning forwards, the forward contactor was not very happy at all. I think it's old enough stuff you can get the contacts out for cleaning and I will probably switch them around because you use the reverse that much anyway.
With the table right down you get 20" from the spindle nose, which is MT4, oiling appears to be total loss, you put it in the oil points and it dribbles out everywhere.
It's got a 1.5hp ~900 rpm motor, I'm glad it works because I didn't really want to buy a replacement.
Drill table is cleaning up ok
My lathe did not come with a spindle reduction bush when I bought it, which is fairly typical for used machines
So I took measurements and spent some time on ebay looking at random listings (there hasn't been any listed for my lathe since I bought it in October) and I bought this one
Which by some kind of miracle actually fits
With the catch plate and a dead centre
I was getting under 0.01mm runout but would grind the centre in If high precision was needed.
The lathe is supposed to be 40" between centres
But even without any tricks and a live centre I have this much
I have been lapping the tailstock barrel with a cast iron lap I turned as it was very rough.
It needs a lot more work as only the front actually contacts but at least tooling locks up nicely in it now as evidenced by bluing a good mt3 arbor.
I don't actually need the tailstock to hold drills or any high loads, so this will be good enough for now.
My lathe did not come with a spindle reduction bush when I bought it, which is fairly typical for used machines
So I took measurements and spent some time on ebay looking at random listings (there hasn't been any listed for my lathe since I bought it in October) and I bought this one
Which by some kind of miracle actually fits
With the catch plate and a dead centre
I was getting under 0.01mm runout but would grind the centre in If high precision was needed.
The lathe is supposed to be 40" between centres
But even without any tricks and a live centre I have this much
I have been lapping the tailstock barrel with a cast iron lap I turned as it was very rough.
It needs a lot more work as only the front actually contacts but at least tooling locks up nicely in it now as evidenced by bluing a good mt3 arbor.
I don't actually need the tailstock to hold drills or any high loads, so this will be good enough for now.
So I was pursuing Ebay as you do and this part dismantled and not complete Smart and Brown Model M mk1 came up locally for £50. Only a little lathe 8" or 9" swing by 18"
Since I have a MK2 and it is in need of a few parts, I jumped right on it.
It's missing the cross slide and compound so it is unlikely to ever get rebuilt so I don't feel too guilty breaking it for parts.
I need the cable drive for the threading dial, I will probably keep the bronze backgear gear as mine is pretty worn and some parts of the belt tension mechanism and the switchgear.
It does have a good tailstock which I don't need, came with a dozen change gears, 8 of which I didn't have, which alone is worth more than what I paid.
Also got a faceplate with it.
The cast aluminium base, which is probably worth near what I paid in scrap as its more weight than I can lift.
Switches, the E stop is not original but is perfectly usable and the FWD Stop Rev drum switch I need as the one on my mk2 sticks and at some point a previous owner snapped the handle off.
Since I have a MK2 and it is in need of a few parts, I jumped right on it.
It's missing the cross slide and compound so it is unlikely to ever get rebuilt so I don't feel too guilty breaking it for parts.
I need the cable drive for the threading dial, I will probably keep the bronze backgear gear as mine is pretty worn and some parts of the belt tension mechanism and the switchgear.
It does have a good tailstock which I don't need, came with a dozen change gears, 8 of which I didn't have, which alone is worth more than what I paid.
Also got a faceplate with it.
The cast aluminium base, which is probably worth near what I paid in scrap as its more weight than I can lift.
Switches, the E stop is not original but is perfectly usable and the FWD Stop Rev drum switch I need as the one on my mk2 sticks and at some point a previous owner snapped the handle off.
Been working on the Smart and Brown Model M mk2
I don't think bronze spindle bearings should have this kind of muck in their oil reservoirs
Full of dirt and cuttings that have got in over the years, the rear bearing is ok, front isn't great, it still turned to half a thou taper over 2" but the surface was terrible, so it needed a tighten up at least. Glad I have had the spindle out now.
Comes apart pretty easily when you work out how, nothing was stuck or seized, not bad for a 70 ish year old machine.
Luckily I bought that spare parts machine, bearings seem good in that one but I haven't had them out yet so don't really know if they.
I will use the best ones and see what we end up with and while I have it apart the bronze back gear is getting swapped as well, the one from the parts machine is much better.
I don't think bronze spindle bearings should have this kind of muck in their oil reservoirs
Full of dirt and cuttings that have got in over the years, the rear bearing is ok, front isn't great, it still turned to half a thou taper over 2" but the surface was terrible, so it needed a tighten up at least. Glad I have had the spindle out now.
Comes apart pretty easily when you work out how, nothing was stuck or seized, not bad for a 70 ish year old machine.
Luckily I bought that spare parts machine, bearings seem good in that one but I haven't had them out yet so don't really know if they.
I will use the best ones and see what we end up with and while I have it apart the bronze back gear is getting swapped as well, the one from the parts machine is much better.
Things I don't need, bought a Myford ML7 from one of the house clearance guys that sells at our local weekly carboot sale.
Has a lot of tooling with it and general workshop stuff mixed in, there's actually more to come, he is going to bring it next week for me.
Now stuffed in my storage container, will sell it once it's cleaned up a bit.
In remarkable decent condition, not much wear at all really or damage, plain bearings seem good but I need to get it wired back up from where we had to separate it from the home made but nice wood cabinet before I can test it properly.
There's a very nice small 4 jaw chuck, faceplate, faceplate, extra change gears, milling slide attachment amongst the tooling that I have found so far, plus probably 20kg of HSS turning tools.
Serial No dates to 1949 so it's a fairly early example.
Has a lot of tooling with it and general workshop stuff mixed in, there's actually more to come, he is going to bring it next week for me.
Now stuffed in my storage container, will sell it once it's cleaned up a bit.
In remarkable decent condition, not much wear at all really or damage, plain bearings seem good but I need to get it wired back up from where we had to separate it from the home made but nice wood cabinet before I can test it properly.
There's a very nice small 4 jaw chuck, faceplate, faceplate, extra change gears, milling slide attachment amongst the tooling that I have found so far, plus probably 20kg of HSS turning tools.
Serial No dates to 1949 so it's a fairly early example.
Finally getting the Multifix tool post on the DSG
I made the stud it sits on out of 32mm silver steel, single point thread cut m16 male and tapped m16 fine pitch for a flange bolt to clamp the toolpost, two 3.3mm holes for a pin spanner to tighten it in, drilled and tapped the compound slide to accept it. Bit of loc tite and wound it in.
I still need to make the anti rotation pin and drill and ream the compound in the correct location.
It won't be as rigid as the factory 4 way toolpost, that was seriously well thought out, using 4no 5/16" whit SHCS to clamp its base down, with 4 dowels for location.
I made the stud it sits on out of 32mm silver steel, single point thread cut m16 male and tapped m16 fine pitch for a flange bolt to clamp the toolpost, two 3.3mm holes for a pin spanner to tighten it in, drilled and tapped the compound slide to accept it. Bit of loc tite and wound it in.
I still need to make the anti rotation pin and drill and ream the compound in the correct location.
It won't be as rigid as the factory 4 way toolpost, that was seriously well thought out, using 4no 5/16" whit SHCS to clamp its base down, with 4 dowels for location.
I while back "Fretters" on here gave me a York 80 vice to go on my power arm widget.
I needed to put a little work into it to get it on.
Milled the bottom flat using a 16mm dia carbide insert end mill, with 12mm step over, using a fairly sketchy set up. I did indicate the base in as best I could, the undamaged areas to approx 0.1mm
Only took enough to get it mostly cleaned up, less than 1mm total.
Had to ease the mounting plate a bit to match the vice mounting holes, an 8mm centre cutting end mill made quick work of it, you can see its no where near symmetrical.
Attached with a couple 8mm SHCS and nuts.
I have some brass bar to make soft jaws with and I want to mount it on a steel block so I can clamp it in a mill or bench vice to use it.
I needed to put a little work into it to get it on.
Milled the bottom flat using a 16mm dia carbide insert end mill, with 12mm step over, using a fairly sketchy set up. I did indicate the base in as best I could, the undamaged areas to approx 0.1mm
Only took enough to get it mostly cleaned up, less than 1mm total.
Had to ease the mounting plate a bit to match the vice mounting holes, an 8mm centre cutting end mill made quick work of it, you can see its no where near symmetrical.
Attached with a couple 8mm SHCS and nuts.
I have some brass bar to make soft jaws with and I want to mount it on a steel block so I can clamp it in a mill or bench vice to use it.
slim_grim
Well-known member
That's a slick little vise setup! I've always got my eyes peeled for a small bullet vise.
It should be pretty nice for filing and deburing parts and such.
I have begun making the brass soft jaws for it.
Well cleaned up 2 sides of the bar on the shaper, and some serrations on the front with a lathe threading tool, 100 thou spacing, depth to what looked like it would do, mostly just because I could as smooth jaws would have been fine.
Brass machines very nicely on a shaper and it doesn't spray the chips all over as badly as the mill does.
Then on the Bridgeport to drill the dowel holes, screw holes with deep countersink.
I need to cut them apart and clean up the ends.
I ran out of time so it will have to wait until next week.
Got this finished.
The base was machined on the shaper (apart from the 3 tapped holes for the screws) out of a 5" square piece of 1 1/4" bar, which took quite a long time but I enjoy shaper work, nothing was to any particular dimension but it seems to hold to 0.1mm parralism without much effort on my part.
I cocked up the position of the dowel holes in the jaws so have elected not to fit them, when this set is worn out I will have to try harder.
The base was machined on the shaper (apart from the 3 tapped holes for the screws) out of a 5" square piece of 1 1/4" bar, which took quite a long time but I enjoy shaper work, nothing was to any particular dimension but it seems to hold to 0.1mm parralism without much effort on my part.
I cocked up the position of the dowel holes in the jaws so have elected not to fit them, when this set is worn out I will have to try harder.
I hate flash rust, only left the 5C chuck on overnight and next day it looks like this.
Had it a couple years, hasn't rusted sat on the shelf, even rusted marks in the nose through the slots in the collet.
Also bought a nice 4.5" QR Paramo vice at the carboot sale, don't need it but I was too nice, I gave it 3 weeks for someone else to buy it but they didn't so I got it for £60
Had it a couple years, hasn't rusted sat on the shelf, even rusted marks in the nose through the slots in the collet.
Also bought a nice 4.5" QR Paramo vice at the carboot sale, don't need it but I was too nice, I gave it 3 weeks for someone else to buy it but they didn't so I got it for £60
Made a rack for multifix tool holders.
Quite a lot of work in it, it's an 20mm fibre reinforced plastic board I have a bunch of offcuts in the right ish size, drilled on the mill to get the spacing correct, the pins are 8mm stainless rod, rounded over on the top, drilled and tapped on the bottom M5 (power tapped in the later with an SPV tapping head), there is two 40mm light section steel angle sections behind that the pins are screwed to, then it's attached to the wall with a bit of timber with a slight angle cut on, and some M6 bolts which just drop into holes through the angle and into the timber.
The lower angle of the two has 3 struts made out of some flat bar with a bend to hold it off the wall at a suitable angle.
Now I just need a lot more toolholders, more than will fit on the rack eventually.
Also bought this small diameter sensitive pillar drill
Webo, German, got a brass ID tag from a former owner with a possible 1946 date, 1900 to 19,000 rpm over 6 speeds, if I make a replacement pulley to get the top 3 back, 3 phase, I think 2/3hp motor, seems to be in very good condition. The table is roughly 9" by 10", all the Z capacity you could want in a drill of this nature, quill travel is approximately 2 1/2"
Quite a lot of work in it, it's an 20mm fibre reinforced plastic board I have a bunch of offcuts in the right ish size, drilled on the mill to get the spacing correct, the pins are 8mm stainless rod, rounded over on the top, drilled and tapped on the bottom M5 (power tapped in the later with an SPV tapping head), there is two 40mm light section steel angle sections behind that the pins are screwed to, then it's attached to the wall with a bit of timber with a slight angle cut on, and some M6 bolts which just drop into holes through the angle and into the timber.
The lower angle of the two has 3 struts made out of some flat bar with a bend to hold it off the wall at a suitable angle.
Now I just need a lot more toolholders, more than will fit on the rack eventually.
Also bought this small diameter sensitive pillar drill
Webo, German, got a brass ID tag from a former owner with a possible 1946 date, 1900 to 19,000 rpm over 6 speeds, if I make a replacement pulley to get the top 3 back, 3 phase, I think 2/3hp motor, seems to be in very good condition. The table is roughly 9" by 10", all the Z capacity you could want in a drill of this nature, quill travel is approximately 2 1/2"
Made a couple of stands to hold the lathes change gears out of some left over pieces of plastic, object of this exercise was getting it done quickly.
Better here on the base under the headstock then stored in a bucket on the floor.
Lathe looked like this after turning the bases, the shafts made long string chips which were much easier to clean up.
Better here on the base under the headstock then stored in a bucket on the floor.
Lathe looked like this after turning the bases, the shafts made long string chips which were much easier to clean up.
drivesitfar
Well-known member
sorry it has taken me so long to get to your garage thread, but I had time to look for a few good threads and yours looks like a winner so i'm here to catch up and follow along if that's ok. I also love reading about your vise finds cause nothing better than an old MADE IN USA or ENGLISH VISE (VICE) which i think you might have more than I in both.
cheers!!
cheers!!
drivesitfar
Well-known member
No worries and post here as you can and i'll be happy to read about your adventures.
I'm wondering if you have an actual list of all the vices made in ENGLAND? I always loved the old Parkinsons and have yet to find any in the wild, but I own more than a few Records. I've owned Paramo, Eron (I think that was English), and maybe a few others, but I haven't been on the vise hunt lately or thinking much about them. I do still own more than a few and I might post them up on my Organizing Garage thread one day.
here's to another good day above dirt.
I'm wondering if you have an actual list of all the vices made in ENGLAND? I always loved the old Parkinsons and have yet to find any in the wild, but I own more than a few Records. I've owned Paramo, Eron (I think that was English), and maybe a few others, but I haven't been on the vise hunt lately or thinking much about them. I do still own more than a few and I might post them up on my Organizing Garage thread one day.
here's to another good day above dirt.
Been a while. I have been trying to have a clear out and sell/scrap stuff.
I found this old mill vice in my container, I think I got it with the radial arm drill, I was going to save the swivel base but it's been dropped at some point and the pivot in the centre is broken out so in the scrap pile it's gone.
Obviously someone who didn't care at all drilled into it many times.
I found this old mill vice in my container, I think I got it with the radial arm drill, I was going to save the swivel base but it's been dropped at some point and the pivot in the centre is broken out so in the scrap pile it's gone.
Obviously someone who didn't care at all drilled into it many times.