E-tek tests paint-on rust products

[e-tek]

Take a look at my latest blog posting for some experiences I've had with various rust paint products:

http://e-tekrestorations.blogspot.com/2011/12/por15-vs-zero-rust-and-eastwoods-rust.html

Have you had similar - or different - experiences with these products?

 

[TheGrooveking]

Thansk fro doing the tests and for posting about it. I'm in the market for a rust encapsulator for a project, so POR15 will get my business.

TheGrooveking

 

[theoldwizard1]

I have read on several forums that POR15 will not adhere to new metal. I have no idea what type of metal prep, if any, was done.

 

[kc-steve]

I'm doing a paint job on a 1993 VW, taking my time, but noticed the rust I removed, primer-ed and painted on windshield wipers 2 years ago has already started to show up again. I didn't use POR-15 on those. Meanwhile, lower body parts painted with POR-15 have remained rust free even in the harsh conditions. Nothing worse than going to the trouble of trying to do a good paint job and have rust show up very quickly. As it stands, POR-15 seems to be doing the intended job.

Is there a recommended time limit before sanding POR-15? Due to the fact that I brush it on, I'd rather try and smooth it out before applying primer and paint.

Steve

 

[buening]

I applied POR15 hi temp manifold paint to my brake drums and rotor hubs on my Mach 1 and after about 30k miles the paint still looks brand new. It does need proper prep in order to use POR15, which is why they sell the Marine Clean and Prep & Ready that has to be applied prior to painting the metal with POR15. I've used Zero Rust and have had good experiences with it, but you have to let the stuff dry months it seems before recoating as it takes forever to dry.

 

[BigMike782]

Not an encapsulator but this is what I use for converting rust.
http://ospho.com/

I have used it directly on rust or over blasted "white" steel that has pits.

 

[info2x]

I've used POR15 with good results. Depending on what you are doing it can take a good amount of prep work but seems to work really well.

RTFM FTW

 

[widerberg]

Cool test. I've got one going myself...

I took a 10" x 40" piece of new 18ga sheet metal. I scuffed it down and let it sit outside my shop for about 3 months. It got an even amount of surface rust on both sides. I sanded down one side with the DA and removed all of the surface rust. So now I have a perfectly clean side and a side with surface rust.

I then taped off sections and applied various types of coatings to each side. POR-15, KBS Coatings, Rust Bullet, Eastwood Rust. I also have a section of just gray automotive primer, a section of primer with gloss black PPG automotive paint, and a section of primer, paint, and Herculiner on top. And finally a section that remains bare metal on both sides. Not a single fingerprint was left on the panel before coating, or after coating.

All coatings were applied within 2 days of eachother in 75F temps. All were applied following manufacturers instructions. The coated panel was then allowed to cure, then was transported to my ranch in South Texas where it was hung off a deer blind by a piece of cable so that it moves in the wind and both sides are exposed to sunlight and the elements. It has been a little over a year since it was hung up. When my dad or one of my brothers goes to the ranch (about once a month) they snap a photo of each side. I am going to give it 2 full years before I remove it, and share the results with everyone else.

The location is deep in the brush country of South Texas. Close enough to the gulf to get the moist air, high winds, a range of temperatures from the mid teens to over 110F, and all forms of the elements.

When the time comes to take it down, I plan to set up a website showing the photos of the process of application, the monthly progress photos, and the final results. I think this can really help clear the air about what works best. I'm personally a fan of POR-15 and KBS Coatings...but we'll see how they stack up against several other methods.

How's it looking so far?

I'm going to be sanding/blasting my Land Rover's frame soon, and planned to use Eastwood Rust Encapsulator (I bought a quart already and was going to get more) or POR-15. Either would be rolled on, and not sprayed. I'm curious now if I'd be better off ditching the Rust Encapsulator and going with POR-15. Can't afford to galvanize the frame, so was going to just try the ol' paint-on approach. In either case (Eastwood or POR-15) I'd planned to topcoat with Valspar tractor and implement paint to give a bit more protection.

 

[widerberg]

Forgot to say, thanks, E-tek! You got me thinking about these products again.

Have you done anything with internal (cavity) rust proofing/preventing? I was going to go with Waxoyl (Waxoyl 120-4) for the inside of my Landy's frame, but cheaped out and bought a couple aerosol cans of Eastwood's similar product instead. I've heard such great things about the Waxoyl, though, that I may just cave and save up to buy a 5 liter tin of the "real" stuff, along with their special spray gun and wands. It's a bit more than I'd wanted to spend for a one-time deal, but what can you do, right?

 

[ElectroLight]

I used Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator on my truck frame (bought a kit) and I'm not impressed. Not long afterward, the rust started to return. The rest of the Eastwood products found their way to the trash can, I will use POR15 from now on...

e-tek, thanks for shedding light on this subject. This rust stopping business seems like snake oil to me.

 

[widerberg]

I used Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator on my truck frame (bought a kit) and I'm not impressed. Not long afterward, the rust started to return. The rest of the Eastwood products found their way to the trash can, I will use POR15 from now on...

Well, that ***** But I appreciate the real world experience. I'm going to have to pick up some POR-15, since that seems to be the consensus champ here and other forums.

Looks like E-tek's tests are showing the same thing.

 

[jf781]

Why not blast the frame and put some epoxy primer/topcoat on it and do it properly instead of a rust encapsulator. Rust will win eventually, if your taking the time to go this far why not do it right?

The only place I see this stuff useful is for the hard to reach places where you can't remove the rust and coat properly. (pillars, in between panels, etc).

 

[widerberg]

Why not blast the frame and put some epoxy primer/topcoat on it and do it properly instead of a rust encapsulator. Rust will win eventually, if your taking the time to go this far why not do it right?

The only place I see this stuff useful is for the hard to reach places where you can't remove the rust and coat properly. (pillars, in between panels, etc).

I don't want to hijack the thread, but in the case of my frame, I am going to have it blasted, but wanted to POR-15 or Rust Encapsulate it also. POR-15, especially, I've heard creates a super hard shell, which I like the sound of. Mostly, I'm just going for overkill here in case any microscopic traces of rust survive media blasting.

 

[jf781]

In hindsight I suppose I did threadjack... /threadjack

Thank you e-tek for your taking the time to do this and share with us.

Agent 1320 - also curious how the test is coming so far after 1 year.

 

[e-tek]

I have read on several forums that POR15 will not adhere to new metal. I have no idea what type of metal prep, if any, was done.

It definitley DOES NOT adhere well to new, SMOOTH metal. It needs something to bite into, either surface rust, or properly prepared new metal. You can either sand it with 80 on the DA, grind it, or use Metal Ready/MetalPRep/OSPHO, etc. . They do the job by roughening up the metal enough so that the POR15 can bind. It also doesn't stick to previously painted surfaces without proper prep either.

Is there a recommended time limit before sanding POR-15? Due to the fact that I brush it on, I'd rather try and smooth it out before applying primer and paint.

Steve

It does a great job or self-levelling itself, especially if you apply thin coats. If you are going to top-coat with primer or paint, either do so after it's dr but before 24 hours, or - if you waited longer - use their Tie-Coat primer to tie the two products together.

Forgot to say, thanks, E-tek! You got me thinking about these products again.

Have you done anything with internal (cavity) rust proofing/preventing? I was going to go with Waxoyl (Waxoyl 120-4) for the inside of my Landy's frame, but cheaped out and bought a couple aerosol cans of Eastwood's similar product instead. I've heard such great things about the Waxoyl, though, that I may just cave and save up to buy a 5 liter tin of the "real" stuff, along with their special spray gun and wands. It's a bit more than I'd wanted to spend for a one-time deal, but what can you do, right?

I used Eastwood's Internal Frame Coating and wrote it up on my web site. It seems like it would do the intended job of repelling mositure, since it's an oil/wax substance. I did like the applicator they've come up with - it has a long tube and a broadcast tip so you can get it all the way into enclosed areas like frames and body channels. I haven't looked at long-term results yet through.

I used Eastwood's Rust Encapsulator on my truck frame (bought a kit) and I'm not impressed. Not long afterward, the rust started to return. The rest of the Eastwood products found their way to the trash can, I will use POR15 from now on...

Thanks for adding your experience.

I don't want to hijack the thread, but in the case of my frame, I am going to have it blasted, but wanted to POR-15 or Rust Encapsulate it also. POR-15, especially, I've heard creates a super hard shell, which I like the sound of. Mostly, I'm just going for overkill here in case any microscopic traces of rust survive media blasting.

My preferred method for frames and body panel undersides is just that: sandblast, wipe down with a wax&grease remover and apply 2 coats of POR15, each applied thinly by brush and within 8 -16 hours of eachother.

 

[Aspen RT]

Thanks for the info E-Tek, I have used Por-15 once and was pretty impressed.

 

[Agent1320]

Sorry Etek, didn't mean to hijack your thread with my last post. Guess it just got me thinking about my similar experiment. I think these tests are important for us consumers. I'll always go by the referral of someone who has used a product rather than the sales pitch of the products marketing team. Comparing similar products side by side using real life methods is really the only way to see how each reacts in the same environment.

 

[wellpoison]

+1 for por15 used it on my 78 nova, painted right over rust! just make sure not to even get a drop of sweat in it.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

I used por-15 on my 79 vette's rusty frame and after a couple of years the rust was showing thru everywhere.............sorry but I'll never use that stuff again.

 

[V70R]

E-tek, great review.

Been using POR-15 for 4+ years now, zero complaints. New, old, rusted, anything metal and never had an issue. Just prep your metal properly and read their paint curing times, i.e. 27days on their engine paint before operating temps.

 

[countryroad82]

I have used POR15 for years and haven't any serious issues. I have some test panels that are going over 7 years old that have been buried, submerged in water, layed out in the sun (they are topcoated), and anything eles my twisted mind could come up with and it has held up very well. I did manage to get some rust to come back on one, but it was due to me hammering it until I eventually scratched it and left it to the elements, but it is still holding well. I'm wanting to see how long it will take for it to lift but so far 2 years later nothing. One guy on another forum hates the stuff he says it is a bandaid, but all his rides live a pampered life once he finishes them. Mine otoh gets flogged on relentlessly so I like the extra insurance. Plus my vehicles tend to stay outside once finished, I like drivers more than trailer queens. I like to use it whenever/ wherever I can, behind body panels before welding, frames, floors, everywhere rust can come back to bite you. I have often debated painting an entire car with it before I do any real paint/ bodywork but I'm a little afraid of trying something like that as I am leary it might affect filler adhesion. I need to try that on another test panel sometime.........

 

[wellpoison]

I have often debated painting an entire car with it before I do any real paint/ bodywork but I'm a little afraid of trying something like that as I am leary it might affect filler adhesion.

Would love to see an entire car painted with por15. would be expensive.

 

[fredd7924]

I used Por-15 on the entire underside of my 69' Camaro when I restored it. It holds up great and is rock hard when finished. The only places I had trouble is were the metal was perfectly clean and I applied it, but it's expected as it wasn't prepped per the instructions and not really is intended purpose.

When using this stuff, make sure you put on gloves, I had this stuff on my hands for almost a week afterwards. Also the cans tend to glue themselves shut, I usually religiously clean the can groves and lid before closing, or the lid will never come off in one piece again. I think these things help show how effective the product really is.

 

[Ground Up Autosports]

This is a very interesting topic. Interested in hearing results from the experiment that Agent1320 is conducting. I run a classic restoration body shop and we have used many different products over the years to prevent rust. I have to say unfortunately that POR 15 has not stood up to what in claims it can accomplish. We use to apply the stuff to steering linkages, calipers, master cylinders, engines etc with only undesirable results. Months down the road the parts would start showing surface rust. We followed the directions exactly using the Marine Clean and Prep & Ready before applying the POR 15. All parts were super clean and thoroughly dried. We even tried the POR 20 with a set of manifolds and the stuff started flaking off before we even sent the car out to the customer. It just doesnt work...for us anyway. Our best results are from just simply applying an epoxy primer and Concept single stage paint. Looks really good and is very durable. Wouldnt use it on manifolds tho...havent found anything that will work well on those yet. Well thats my take on POR 15. Maybe I am missing something but I cant recommend it for long term rust prevention.

 

[buening]

We even tried the POR 20 with a set of manifolds and the stuff started flaking off before we even sent the car out to the customer.

Have you tried this stuff?

I actually used it on my exhaust manifolds and brake drums. For the manifolds, I had them sandblasted and then just rinsed them with brake cleaner, let dry and then brushed on the Manifold Gray for a couple coats. Let it dry for a few days and then installed them. I put about 20k miles on the car and there were only a couple rust pockets, which were in deep voids from the previous rust cavities that were sandblasted (likely an area with thin paint coverage). Below is a pic of my brake drums, still on the car after 30k miles. The paint came off where the Cragar rims contacted the drum, mainly because I didn't let the paint dry long enough. Ignore the washers, I was determining wheel spacer thickness needs

 

[e-tek]

This is a very interesting topic. Interested in hearing results from the experiment that Agent1320 is conducting. I run a classic restoration body shop and we have used many different products over the years to prevent rust. I have to say unfortunately that POR 15 has not stood up to what in claims it can accomplish. Maybe I am missing something but I cant recommend it for long term rust prevention.

I'd have to say you either MUST be missing something, or you live in the worst conditions in the world! I've used it on vehicles that have had years of abuse (winters) after application and have rarely seen failures. You can search on-line for THOUSANDS of success stories....but I know you can also find many failures, which I do find it interestingly weird.....

Have you tried this stuff?

I use this too - on all my exhaust manifolds. It's the only stuff I've tried that doesn't burn off right away. It's super easy to apply too, so to clean up an engine bay you can just brsuh it back on. Gives anything a new cast look.

 

[e-tek]

Here's an interesting 5 year test I just came across. They kinda went overboard by leaving it in a pool for a while, but the results are interesting just the same. I wonder if the POR15 had a UV-protective coating applied after - likely not.

The makers of Rust Bullet sent me some product a while back but I have yet to have a good project to try it on. I did brush some on my own test panel (rusty tailgate from a 46 Mercury truck) along with some PO15 and Eastwood's Rust Encapulator....so we'll see if these results are repeatable.