E Torx Universal sockets.

[2ndGearRubber]

I was in a tight space today, needed a E10 universal socket, 1/4 drive. Snap On sells E8, E10, and E12, $45 + Tax for each.

https://www.jbtools.com/vim-tools-ujet400-9-piece-universal-joint-e-torx-1-4-drive-set/

Has anyone used the VIM tools set of 1/4 Etorx? At $55 for a 9 piece set, it's tempting. I'd assume Snap on 1/4 E-torx universals head and shoulders above everyone else like their normal 1/4 drive sockets are? VIM has made a bunch of great tools, top notch stuff, the price difference seems a little too good to be true.




Bite the bullet at $150 + Tax for the 3 snap on sockets, or just get the VIM set for $55?

 

[2ndGearRubber]

https://shop.snapon.com/product/Low...ile-Inverted-TORX-Socket-Set-(E4-E10)/106RTLE

Or option 3, buy these, use them on my Koken universals. The above sockets, on a wrench, might have been able to get to that E10. I used a 12 point 5/16 wrench to get the bolt in question, which was obscured by the exhaust manifold flange. Bonus is: I wanted to buy these anyways.

 

[blown94conv]

If you think you’ll use them a lot just get the snap on ones. They really can’t be beat and are worth every penny. Now if it’s something you’re going to do every now and then, maybe the others might be worth trying.

 

[vssjim]

VIM tools are top notch and they are tough. They will do the job and at a good value, you wont have any problems with them and a phone call will get any problems fixed.

 

[Wamsutta]

Pay the money for Snap-on. No other universal will lean over to almost a full 90 and keep turning. That's the whole point of a universal socket in the first place. They've been making tools in the US of A for a 100 years. They are the best bar none.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Snap on is who I'm leaning towards; was just curious if anyone owned the VIM set after seeing FlateRateMaster talk about them on youtube. They've been on my tool list for over a year, just don't want to be disappointed.

 

[redwrench60]

I have all the 1/4” drive universal E Torx Snap on makes. They really are the best. Nothing else is more compact and tighter turning angle capable. I’ve used the absolute **** out of them. On air ratchets, cordless electric ratchets, hand ratchets and the ocassional hex impact. Still tight and worth every penny for a pro user where time and access are everything.

 

[superautobacs]

I've been happy with using Ko-ken's ball-joint style universal joint (because they are so much easier to work with than conventional universal joint construction) with Snap-on's low-profile sockets that you linked (I only got the E7, 8, and 10 sizes).

In the rare instance where I need more angle, I have Ko-ken's swivel sockets in E10 and E12.

Pictured is an E12:

<a data-flickr-embed="true" href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/ccassan/31658468083/in/photolist-QexVAB-QTQwgf-QexVyx-QexVxk-ReSJBL-FFRZ7h-ENHk5f-ReSJou-ReSJqy-QexVin-QexVez-ReSJeG-QexVpV-QexVoc-QexVkg-ReSJjS-QTQw2N-ReSJc7-QbJT63-QbJT6J-Rhwzpi-QTQw1f-QbJT3h-ReSJ8j-QTQvZ3-QTQvWh-QbJSYj-QbJSWq-QTQvUy-ReSJHh-RpGY8N-QexUHK-RpGYab-ENHkiw-ENUoMx-FJ9R5i-2d4EiGm-2bKuEND-GVoJG1-Gqg3AR-Fzjm1k-FzYBnJ-FChRgg-FFRZ1q-FChR7P-FzYBdA-Fj3rkW-FJ9QFx-FzYB9s-Fj3riG" title="Ko-ken, Zeal Universals"><img src="https://live.staticflickr.com/587/31658468083_6c4dca8d26_c.jpg" width="800" height="532" alt="Ko-ken, Zeal Universals"></a><script async src="//embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Koken looks like $40 each, plus shipping. They also include the E6 size, so with a $150 outlay, Koken gives you E6/8/10/12 while Snapon only gives you E8/10/12.



Wamsutta does make a convincing argument though. When you need a universal socket, you NEED it. I also consider my koken stuff essentially warranty-less aside from failures right out of the box. I've just started throwing the 1/4 wobble extensions away if there's issues with them.

 

[superautobacs]

No universal joint is going to work well past a certain angle...besides you're using the wrong tool if you're using it anywhere close to 90°. The more acute the angle, the greater the tendency to foldover and bind...just cumbersome to operate.
That's why I use Ko-ken's balljoint style universals. It's got all the best features one can want in a chrome universal joint. My conventional universal joints hardly ever come out...and I've been using my 1/4 drive ones for many years without a single breakage. A real game-changer in my mind.

Try contacting the German Tool Truck people for a quote as well. They sell quite a few Ko-ken specialty items including E-torx swivel sockets: http://thegermantooltruck.com/

 

[Wamsutta]

No universal joint is going to work well past a certain angle...besides you're using the wrong tool if you're using it anywhere close to 90°. The more acute the angle, the greater the tendency to foldover and bind...just cumbersome to operate.

It's not the wrong tool. When there's something in the way and you need to get around it, the universal socket has your back. I usually use mine with 10 to 14 inch extensions. My Snap-on universal sockets keep turning even when all the way over. Might be 87 degrees or something. They have gotten me out of some tedious situations. I would buy them again in a split second. They are well worth the money in my opinion.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

It's not the wrong tool. When there's something in the way and you need to get around it, the universal socket has your back. I usually use mine with 10 to 14 inch extensions. My Snap-on universal sockets keep turning even when all the way over. Might be 87 degrees or something. They have gotten me out of some tedious situations. I would buy them again in a split second. They are well worth the money in my opinion.

I have to agree; while 90* use isn't ideal, one needs to be able to use severe angles when necessary.

Case and point, the job which started this thread. Options were remove exhaust manifold, or get this bolt out via other means. Luckily it was E10, and 5/16 or 8mm 12 points cross over; and I went through my wrenches until I found one with suitable angle, bend, and rotation of the 12 points within the box end. Once broken free I could spin it out with my fingers.




Don't get me wrong, I love my koken Zeal universals. But it's more of a step between a wobble extension and a traditional universal.

 

[Fedwrench]

I work on very few German vehicles. There are situations snap on chrome swivels maybe king. However, many of my peers have gotten by with VIM e torx swivels. I wouldn't recommend the Gearwrench version but, there are a lot of techs using VIM Torx/ETORX/XZN without issue.
People not in the trade often get blinded by Snap on but, the quality gap between snap on and other brands has narrowed considerably over the last several years. Snap on produces a quality product but, those German vehicles were built and are often maintained without snap on tools.
Besides Merk's Buick only has a couple of e torx studs that you don't need a swivel socket to reach

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I work on very few German vehicles. There are situations snap on chrome swivels maybe king. However, many of my peers have gotten by with VIM e torx swivels. I wouldn't recommend the Gearwrench version but, there are a lot of techs using VIM Torx/ETORX/XZN without issue.
People not in the trade often get blinded by Snap on but, the quality gap between snap on and other brands has narrowed considerably over the last several years. Snap on produces a quality product but, those German vehicles were built and are often maintained without snap on tools.
Besides Merk's Buick only has a couple of e torx studs that you don't need a swivel socket to reach

It was actually a GM 1.4L turbo motor, oil pan bolts. Most of the korean stuff from GM is all e-torx, and FCA is dragging it over from euro models. Bolt obviously had to come out, no good way to get to it. I can tell you I didn't torque it, unlike the other 20 bolts. Next time I get one in I'll stick a 10mm snap on universal in that area and see if even it would clear. I have some 1/4 torque adapters ordered, which may also by-pass this specific scenario, and let me still torque it as I like to. I could also weld up an adapter for it, as I expect these oil pans to be frequently replaced items as time goes on.

I agree GW universals are okay at best, not interested in those. VIM makes great bit sockets..... but that tells me nothing about their universals.


My theory is this: I make a living with these, and am not afraid to "buy once cry once". I also have limited resources, so the less I spend on these sockets, the more I can spend elsewhere. I just don't want to buy the VIM and be disappointed, then buy the snap on ones instead.

 

[Skin]

There isn't anything magical in Snap-ons universal blocks. I like them because they stay tight but as far as angle they aren't much better than anything else. If I have the space the Koken (double) pinless swivels are much easier to use.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Add piece to the equation, labor time was 2.7, which includes pulling the manifold with integrated cat converter. I took about an hour doing it my way.

 

[MattT]

You're saving enough time to pay for the Snap-on. And if any universal is gonna work it'll be the Snap-on. FWIW I'd just buy the E10 for now.

And to totally muddy things I'll throw E Torx wrenches into the mix

These VIM are cheap enough you could buy a second set to cut up for making torque adapters.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FN6PGA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

These are handy where they'll fit. Probably won't work for an oil pan though.

https://www.gearwrench.com/wrenches...double-box-ratcheting-e-torxr-wrench-set.html

 

[2ndGearRubber]

You're saving enough time to pay for the Snap-on. And if any universal is gonna work it'll be the Snap-on. FWIW I'd just buy the E10 for now.

And to totally muddy things I'll throw E Torx wrenches into the mix

These VIM are cheap enough you could buy a second set to cut up for making torque adapters.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FN6PGA/?tag=atomicindus08-20

These are handy where they'll fit. Probably won't work for an oil pan though.

https://www.gearwrench.com/wrenches...double-box-ratcheting-e-torxr-wrench-set.html

I have those VIM wrenches, they were my first thought for that situation actually. I'll see if snap on has them on the truck to inspect.

 

[Catch_22]

I have these for the etorx at the top of Jeep transmissions. Use them all the time. Work well for it. Probably the same factory.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SQ48CY8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Speed-Racer]

superautobacs X2. Look at his pics. One 3/8 and the 1/4 universal swivel.

As others have said go with the snap on sockets if concerned by the warranty.

 

[Wamsutta]

There isn't anything magical in Snap-ons universal blocks. I like them because they stay tight but as far as angle they aren't much better than anything else. If I have the space the Koken (double) pinless swivels are much easier to use.

A lot of people would disagree with you on that; especially the aircraft mechanics.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Talked to Snap-on yesterday, ordered the E8/10/12 universals. I'll be picking up their low profile 1/4 torx in the future, to use on the Koken universals. I feel the latter combination will be enough for most uses, but I sold myself on the actual universals coming from SO. There's fasteners I can't reach with a GW or SK 1/4 universal, but the snap on will spin them out. It's just 3 sizes, so even at $150 it's a pretty small cost relative to another 35 years of professional use.




Now I'll just have to wait a month before they show up. In the mean time I hope Koken can make some Zeal e-torx sockets so I can skip $100 for the snap on set.

 

[Wamsutta]

Talked to Snap-on yesterday, ordered the E8/10/12 universals. I'll be picking up their low profile 1/4 torx in the future, to use on the Koken universals. I feel the latter combination will be enough for most uses, but I sold myself on the actual universals coming from SO. There's fasteners I can't reach with a GW or SK 1/4 universal, but the snap on will spin them out. It's just 3 sizes, so even at $150 it's a pretty small cost relative to another 35 years of professional use.




Now I'll just have to wait a month before they show up. In the mean time I hope Koken can make some Zeal e-torx sockets so I can skip $100 for the snap on set.

I had to do a lot of typing in this thread to get you to buy those Snap-on universals. It finally paid off.

 

[redwrench60]

I had to do a lot of typing in this thread to get you to buy those Snap-on universals. It finally paid off.

The way I see it Snap on owes you a bird dog fee.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I had to do a lot of typing in this thread to get you to buy those Snap-on universals. It finally paid off.

And I'm sure the first time I use them at a wild angle I'll be pleased.


I normally avoid SO when I can do to cost, but when something is the best, you just gotta **** it up and pay the money. I'm sure they'll be exemplary like my other 1/4 universals.

 

[bwringer]

Obviously, the only solution is to buy all the above and make a Youtube video testing them to destruction.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Obviously, the only solution is to buy all the above and make a Youtube video testing them to destruction.

Which fails first?


The 1/4 universal socket? Or one of the step-up adapters I used to get to 3/4 drive?

 

[RKA]

Would love to hear your feedback on them. But...a month?? They ran out of metal and have to go back to the mine to make you 3 sockets??

 

[2ndGearRubber]

Would love to hear your feedback on them. But...a month?? They ran out of metal and have to go back to the mine to make you 3 sockets??

I never need anything tool trucks stock. So everything I need has to be ordered, minimum of 2-3 week turn around. Metric torque adapters, 90 degree adapters, special disconnect tools, secondary ignition probes, etc.

Most trucks I go on mostly have basic stuff like screwdrivers, sockets and wrenches. I'm coming up on year 10 in the industry, so there's not a lot of basic stuff I need. What I do need is usually not in stock on any truck, as the turn over is so low it's not worth stocking. Much more profitable to stock 8 screw driver sets, and I dont blame them for that- business is business.

 

[setfocus]

It was actually a GM 1.4L turbo motor, oil pan bolts. Most of the korean stuff from GM is all e-torx, and FCA is dragging it over from euro models. Bolt obviously had to come out, no good way to get to it. I can tell you I didn't torque it, unlike the other 20 bolts. Next time I get one in I'll stick a 10mm snap on universal in that area and see if even it would clear. I have some 1/4 torque adapters ordered, which may also by-pass this specific scenario, and let me still torque it as I like to. I could also weld up an adapter for it, as I expect these oil pans to be frequently replaced items as time goes on.

I also had an issue with a Saturn astra oil pan. All E-socket bolts. I've got a set of those sockets but 2 of the E10 bolts were down a narrow channel. My E10 was 3/8 drive and too fat. Like someone else said, 5/16 or 8mm 12 point work on E10. Luckily one of the guys had a craftsman 5/16 12 point 1/4 drive socket that fit.

I've since noticed that all the smaller gm I4s look like they have a similar design, I should probably get a 1/4 drive E10 for next time

There was one bolt I took out with a 12 point wrench but it was bigger than E10

Sent from my SM-G920V using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[RKA]

I never need anything tool trucks stock. So everything I need has to be ordered, minimum of 2-3 week turn around.

Ah, nevermind, I had assumed you ordered from SO's website, didn't realize you ordered in the truck. My bad.

 

[2ndGearRubber]

I also had an issue with a Saturn astra oil pan. All E-socket bolts. I've got a set of those sockets but 2 of the E10 bolts were down a narrow channel. My E10 was 3/8 drive and too fat. Like someone else said, 5/16 or 8mm 12 point work on E10. Luckily one of the guys had a craftsman 5/16 12 point 1/4 drive socket that fit.

I've since noticed that all the smaller gm I4s look like they have a similar design, I should probably get a 1/4 drive E10 for next time

There was one bolt I took out with a 12 point wrench but it was bigger than E10

Sent from my SM-G920V using The Garage Journal mobile app

Being that e10 is typically m6x1 bolts, imo they should be 1/4 drive. I got e10 and e12 from proto on amazon in 1/4. They're technically impact sockets, but they're pretty slim.

 

[MattT]

Being that e10 is typically m6x1 bolts, imo they should be 1/4 drive. I got e10 and e12 from proto on amazon in 1/4. They're technically impact sockets, but they're pretty slim.

E10 is M6 bolts but probably M10 studs. So removing studs might be pushing the limits with 1/4" drive.

Also FYI Snap-on do sell E10 & E12 1/4" drive singles. It's just the set that jumps to 3/8" at E10.