Early Monarch 16" Lathe
- Thread starter 930dreamer
- Start date
Hello, 930,
That one appears, from the photo, to be a mid to late 1920's machine, alright, Its serial number will be in the 2000's range, I should think.
It appears to be one of the 'first iteration' of the Monarch 'helical gear headstock', with Timkens on the spindle, and threaded spindle nose. It will be an 8-speed machine, with a top speed of 4-hundred-something, the normalcy before carbide tool-bits, when only high speed tooling was available.
That model is not as desirable as a mid-1930's Monarch would be, with the later 16-speed headstock and camlock spindle, but if its in reasonably good condition, it will do pretty much anything a later model lathe will do, just not as quickly.
What is important is 'condition, condition, and condition'. Check for bed, cross-slide, and screw wear. If its unworn, it will do good work. If its 'somewhat worn', it may be cost-effective on open tolerance parts, or for the roughing-out of parts which will be brought to finish dimensions on a lighter belt drive lathe. You'd be surprised at the amount of cut that Monarch will take, in alloy steels and the stainlesses.
cheers
Carla
That one appears, from the photo, to be a mid to late 1920's machine, alright, Its serial number will be in the 2000's range, I should think.
It appears to be one of the 'first iteration' of the Monarch 'helical gear headstock', with Timkens on the spindle, and threaded spindle nose. It will be an 8-speed machine, with a top speed of 4-hundred-something, the normalcy before carbide tool-bits, when only high speed tooling was available.
That model is not as desirable as a mid-1930's Monarch would be, with the later 16-speed headstock and camlock spindle, but if its in reasonably good condition, it will do pretty much anything a later model lathe will do, just not as quickly.
What is important is 'condition, condition, and condition'. Check for bed, cross-slide, and screw wear. If its unworn, it will do good work. If its 'somewhat worn', it may be cost-effective on open tolerance parts, or for the roughing-out of parts which will be brought to finish dimensions on a lighter belt drive lathe. You'd be surprised at the amount of cut that Monarch will take, in alloy steels and the stainlesses.
cheers
Carla
OP
Thank you!
rsanter
Well-known member
Those older ,machines are more prone to bed wear as they did not know how to Crome the ways are harden them like they do on the modern machines.
Also the older machines have more weight and a larger head for the size of the working space. They also don’t often have replacement parts available for them
So yes they are worth a little less then some of the more modern stuff.
If you can get it for a good price and the condition is good or good enough, they are a great machine to have
Also the older machines have more weight and a larger head for the size of the working space. They also don’t often have replacement parts available for them
So yes they are worth a little less then some of the more modern stuff.
If you can get it for a good price and the condition is good or good enough, they are a great machine to have
930Dreamer, if you aren't a member there already, you might want to join the Hobby Machinist forum: https://www.hobby-machinist.com/
There is a sub-forum dedicated to Monarchs. Just like here, there are some great friendly folks over there. By the way, Monarch is still in business and some parts are still available from them. Not cheap by any means, but available.
There is a sub-forum dedicated to Monarchs. Just like here, there are some great friendly folks over there. By the way, Monarch is still in business and some parts are still available from them. Not cheap by any means, but available.
whateg01
Well-known member
The Monarch board over at PM is a good resource, as well, if you can stand the arrogance of many there. Even with way too much wear in the saddle on my 10ee, it still makes awfully good parts!
Dave
Dave
OP
The PM dated the lathe for me, just can't decide on it.
whateg01
Well-known member
As others have said parts aren't going to be easy to find for that, but given the price, I might consider it. It's a far cry heavier than a south bend or logan. If it does need parts, I have found that Monarch parts are painted John Deere green. I honestly doubt there are many parts available from Monarch on that old of a machine. It doesn't have the following and popularity of the 10ee.
If it's all there, and all in working order as the ad says, and it's what you want, I wouldn't be afraid of it. Then again, I drove to Atlanta, TX to buy my 10ee in non-running condition for a little less than the seller wants for that 16".
The threaded spindle can be considered a drawback, but a good many parts have been made on machines with them. I don't think they were flame hardening the bed back then, but if it's not excessively worn, consider whether you'll ever wear it out. What is the max spindle speed? How is it powered? What do you intend to make with it? What is the spindle taper? Can you get collets for it, or an adapter to use with common collets and a drawbar? Or are you limited to a collet chuck if you want to go that route?
I see quite a few newer machines that are probably more capable, but completely worn out listed in Tulsa and OKC for more money than that one.
Good luck!
If it's all there, and all in working order as the ad says, and it's what you want, I wouldn't be afraid of it. Then again, I drove to Atlanta, TX to buy my 10ee in non-running condition for a little less than the seller wants for that 16".
The threaded spindle can be considered a drawback, but a good many parts have been made on machines with them. I don't think they were flame hardening the bed back then, but if it's not excessively worn, consider whether you'll ever wear it out. What is the max spindle speed? How is it powered? What do you intend to make with it? What is the spindle taper? Can you get collets for it, or an adapter to use with common collets and a drawbar? Or are you limited to a collet chuck if you want to go that route?
I see quite a few newer machines that are probably more capable, but completely worn out listed in Tulsa and OKC for more money than that one.
Good luck!
OP
I really want a 10ee, but don't want one I need to rebuild. Here's two parts 10ee's.
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/d/monarch-10-ee-lathes/6556971916.html
https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/tls/d/monarch-10-ee-lathes/6556971916.html
Last edited:
whateg01
Well-known member
Man, I'd like to have the parts machine, maybe. I wonder why they say that one needs a VFD. Weird that they only posted pics of the back of the machines. I'm not sure, but I think those are both motor/generator machines, which is what mine was before I gutted the non-functioning electrical stuff and replaced with a VFD/3 ph motor. If they are M/G , then they ran off of 3 ph power, but a rotary phase converter would do fine, too. Some say it's impossible, but I have run one that is setup that way. I'm guessing that there is no tooling with these, as none is shown in the photos.
Dave
Dave
Packard V8
Well-known member
Back before VFDs were widely available, I was looking at a similar, 'ran when parked' lathe; a wise old shop owner told me, "There's no machine so expensive as a cheap 10EE."
jack vines
jack vines
whateg01
Well-known member
OP
OP
whateg01
Well-known member
Man! If I had the money, that 30" would be really nice to have. I am thinking he'll get what he wants or close to it, for that one.
Dave
Dave
OP
I see the first post Monarch is back on CL again, These are close to ABQ
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/tls/d/edgewood-south-bend-lathe/6807196172.html
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/tls/d/tijeras-1942-southbend-heavy-10-lathe/6793948654.html
https://santafe.craigslist.org/tls/d/white-rock-southbendlathe-with-tooling/6797365596.html
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/tls/d/edgewood-south-bend-lathe/6807196172.html
https://albuquerque.craigslist.org/tls/d/tijeras-1942-southbend-heavy-10-lathe/6793948654.html
https://santafe.craigslist.org/tls/d/white-rock-southbendlathe-with-tooling/6797365596.html
paulsomlo
Well-known member
I like the 13" SB - the most modern of the three, you'll still be able to get parts and accessories on the used market. And it's got a hard bed.
The guy with the Heavy 10 is on drugs - don't count on Grizzly having parts for a machine that old, and if they did, you wouldn't want to pay what they were asking. And the only way a Heavy 10 would bring $5k is if it were close to new, or a full refurb, including bed regrind. And the tailstock is not original. That's a $2k lathe at best.
The two larger ones are a better value - watch the CL ads, as the prices will probably drop on those.
Bob-B
Well-known member
^^^ +1 on what paulsomlo said about the Heavy 10. That's the really older single tumbler QC gear box model. Having grown up on these and working on them for 50 years, he's off by a factor of 10 in my book.
If you're looking for a Heavy 10, my advise is keep looking for a newer model.
If you're looking for a Heavy 10, my advise is keep looking for a newer model.
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Those 3 are a long way from a Monarch 16.
OP
^^^ In the wrong direction?
ez-duzit
Well-known member
Don't know about that. I actually would love to pair my 12" x 35" Logan with a larger one. 16" sounds about right. And Monarch is top of the line.
OP
Response from the PM Forum;
"Depends if you want an old slow plain spindle bearing lathe - made EXPRESSLY for HSS tools
Note input pulley speed less than 400 in the photos - 345 in fact
Also are you up for approximately zero support for "parts"? A similar vintage South Bend is very limited but way ahead in this respect..
If it needs a widget - or a major gear, you will be the provider of that need - with whatever knowledge and skills are needed to MAKE same"
"Depends if you want an old slow plain spindle bearing lathe - made EXPRESSLY for HSS tools
Note input pulley speed less than 400 in the photos - 345 in fact
Also are you up for approximately zero support for "parts"? A similar vintage South Bend is very limited but way ahead in this respect..
If it needs a widget - or a major gear, you will be the provider of that need - with whatever knowledge and skills are needed to MAKE same"