Easy noob question about adding a circuit

[dallusglockin]

I am wanting to add a circuit or 2 to my garage because there is only 1 120v outlet in there. The previous owner added a 240v outlet which I may or may not use. It is definitely nice to have!

That being said, I would like to add a circuit or 2 to add more outlets along one of the walls. I like the look of the external boxes/conduit, so I want to go that route. I want to add 2 more outlets in addition to the existing GFI outlet on the wall. The additional circuit will have 3 or 4 outlets on it. I'm thinking a 20A circuit with 12ga wire for that.

I have read numerous threads on here and it seems like 12ga THHN or THWN wires in 1/2" EMT conduit is what I'll be running. The new circuit will be GFCI protected. The existing circuit will reuse the GFCI outlet and add 2 additional outlets. This wall is where I want to build a workbench.

Onto the question...Is it difficult to run a circuit from my panel, up to the double "access panel" and toss on a 4x4 handy box and run the outlets from there? What would an electrician charge for this?

Assuming I follow all the safety protocols and follow code, would this be something easily accomplished by myself? I like to consider myself pretty handy and a perfectionist and would like it to be done correctly. I am looking to get a short run of NM-B wire to run from the panel to the handy box.

If there is an easier way to do this, please let me know. If this is something I need to hire someone for because I will probably kill myself or someone else, let me know too. I would like to get any electrical done before I re-mud the drywall.

Onto the pictures.....


Panel with cutout from previous owner. I would like to run a box up to that blank panel up towards the ceiling.


The only outlets in the garage. Future location of workbench.

 

[sands35]

I guess that is an easy 1/2 to full day job for an electrician. Figure $40-60/hr + materials. So a 3-500 job? (I'm not a pro)

This is a really easy job. (why is the wall opened over the breaker box?)

It is difficult to tell where the box is relative to the doors, but you will need to go up and over them. There are EMT pull corners with a little door on them for just such a thing. No more than 360* of corners per pull.

THHN is easy to pull, but you will need a pull cable.

The circuit will also need to be GFCI. So either a GFCI breaker or a GFCI outlet at the 1st one from the panel.

You will need to turn off the house main when you are in the main panel. 200 amps means a painful death if you do it wrong. So plan accordingly. No electricity at 9pm doesn't work well. This is a good Saturday job.

Take off the main panel cover and go out the top. Then in the backside of a 4 square box and then use surface mount EMT from there. You will need a clamp bushing at the top of the main panel and going into the 1st box. I would use romex (NM wire) to go into the 1st box as THHN needs to be in conduit the whole way. Conduit into the main box is do-able, but adds complexity when it isn't needed. If you drill through a stud shown in your photo, you will need to put in a nail plate so it is protected if that hole gets covered.

Find the studs to clamp the EMT and boxes to. (need a stud finder - or just eyeball it with the fire tape job). EMT can be cut with a hack saw. Then a quick file on the edges to remove burrs.

IMHO PVC is simpler if you don't want to mess with metal cutting, but doesn't "look" as good. Really a personal choice. Any metal boxes need to be tied into the ground for that run. Technically, if it is EMT the whole way, the EMT can be the ground, but for a small simple job, just pull a green wire and wire in each box to the ground. There are pre-made pigtails for that purpose.

I'd use double gang boxes even if you are putting in 1 outlet per box. Really doesn't cost that much more and it is so much simpler to wire with the extra room. Get the deepest boxes the store sells. Again, more room and why make it more difficult with a shallow box?

If you are going to paint the garage, I'd do a quick wipe of the EMT with an alcohol or paint thinner soaked rag before installing it. There can be oil on the conduit.

 

[ForceFed70]

BX cable allowed in this circumstance? If so, I'd consider using it over conduit. Much easier to work with if you are not familiar with conduit.

Sands has provided great advice. This project would take a pro about 1/2 day to complete and around $100 in material. Don't forget ticket/permit fees, etc. Probably a $500bill but costs vary wildly by location.

I think this is a great DIY project to learn on. Make sure you get permits! The inspector should be very helpful as well.

If you do conduit, I recommend going with 3/4". You could get away with 1/2" but 12Ga is getting to be a tight fit. 3/4" would only cost you a few $$ more, it'll make life easier when pulling the cables, and it'll allow for another circuit/cable in the future if required.

 

[dallusglockin]

Thanks for all the info!

I don't know why the wall is opened above the box. The PO had a 240v installed and maybe that was for making the box connection? I have no idea.

Generally, is a permit required to add the additional outlets? I don't know a timetable for this entire project, but I want to get the new circuit installed sooner rather than later. I would ideally like to get a permit for the new circuit now, then finish out the garage. Once it's painted and good enough for me, I'd do the extra outlets. I wouldn't want to have to get another permit for that.

 

[checkthisout]

Thanks for all the info!

I don't know why the wall is opened above the box. The PO had a 240v installed and maybe that was for making the box connection? I have no idea.

Generally, is a permit required to add the additional outlets? I don't know a timetable for this entire project, but I want to get the new circuit installed sooner rather than later. I would ideally like to get a permit for the new circuit now, then finish out the garage. Once it's painted and good enough for me, I'd do the extra outlets. I wouldn't want to have to get another permit for that.

Yes, a permit is required. Whether you get one or not is up to you.

 

[Stuart in MN]

A permit may be required, but it all depends on your local regulations. Check with your city building department.

 

[sands35]

FYI - basically there are 2-3 issues without pulling a permit if one is required in your area.

1) AHJ (Authority having jurisdiction, aka the inspector) will make you pull all the work out and do it over, then be difficult for every other job you want to do cause you pissed then off. I think they can put a lien on your house (not sure about that) until the work is done satisfactorily.

2) When you sell the house, doing non-permitted work can create issues with the sell if the inspectors find it.

3) House burns down and the insurance finds a way to blame the non-permitted work then they can deny the claim.

So yeah, pull a permit.

99% of inspectors are cool and will work with home owners. They just want to make sure the work is safe and to code.

 

[dallusglockin]

FYI - basically there are 2-3 issues without pulling a permit if one is required in your area.

1) AHJ (Authority having jurisdiction, aka the inspector) will make you pull all the work out and do it over, then be difficult for every other job you want to do cause you pissed then off. I think they can put a lien on your house (not sure about that) until the work is done satisfactorily.

2) When you sell the house, doing non-permitted work can create issues with the sell if the inspectors find it.

3) House burns down and the insurance finds a way to blame the non-permitted work then they can deny the claim.

So yeah, pull a permit.

99% of inspectors are cool and will work with home owners. They just want to make sure the work is safe and to code.

I agree with it being safe. It doesn't seem like a difficult job, it needs to be done correctly. That's where the inspectors will help.

I am seeing about permits. I probably should get an electrician to install the new circuit and do the EMT myself. I can certainly handle adding outlets to an existing circuit. I could probably handle adding the circuit too. I just don't want to have an impromptu close encounter with the service lugs. Maybe my panel has a safety cover over the service lugs....

 

[sands35]

I am seeing about permits. I probably should get an electrician to install the new circuit and do the EMT myself. I can certainly handle adding outlets to an existing circuit. I could probably handle adding the circuit too. I just don't want to have an impromptu close encounter with the service lugs. Maybe my panel has a safety cover over the service lugs....

If you can work a screw driver, change a tire and oil in your car, and cook dinner, you can take the cover off the main panel and not kill yourself. It takes longer to get the cover off then to pop in a new breaker.

 

[dallusglockin]

Just talked with the building inspections dept for the City and he said I would need a permit for it and I could pull it myself if my home was homesteaded. We just moved into it in mid-September so I haven't filed for homestead status. I will have to do that in January. If I don't have it homesteaded, the permits will have to be pulled by a licensed electrician.

I may have to wait until the first of the year to do this. In the meantime, I can finish the walls, and maybe have an electrician install the extra circuit...

 

[simpler=better]

Most electricians will be okay with you putting up the conduit, and then just hiring them for the permit/actual wire pull.

To ease this along:
-Deburr the inside of all conduit ends.
-Drop a pull rope where the NM will be going
-If you buy outlets in advance, buy nice ones

It's a really simple job, and you're asking all the right questions. No doubt you can tackle it.

 

[CJ7VFR]

Are Tamper Resistant receptacles required in garages now?

I know at some point the NEC put in a requirement to use them in homes, but I don't know if they are required in a garage or out building.

If they are, make sure you get them BEFORE you install anything or have your inspection! You don't want to have to pull out non-tamper resistant receptacles and replace them!

It's better to ask now and get what you will need than to have to do everything over again.

And as has already been mentioned, spend the extra money to get good quality receptacles. The ones in the bins on the floor that cost less than a buck are NOT the good ones. The good ones are on the shelves in boxes.

Oh, and just as a suggestion, if you do go with conduit and surface mount boxes, get the black receptacles and switches. They look really nice installed in gray boxes with gray cover plates. I did this in my shed and my garage and everyone who sees it always says how cool it looks!

Its industrial looking and very neat.

Jim

 

[VictorBravo]

Are Tamper Resistant receptacles required in garages now?

Yes, at least since the 2008 code. I wired a new garage in 2010 under that code and that was the only thing I had to change.

So now I have child proof receptacles everywhere except for the 50 amp 240 receptacle at child-level height (not required there).

 

[ForceFed70]

Inside? I was forced to use tamper resistant outlets for the outside outlets, but outside only. Yes, I'm in Canada but my inspection authority went by 2008 NEC with a few minor revisions.

 

[dallusglockin]

Thanks for that nugget of info! I never thought of the tamper resistant receptacles. I don't know how I survived this long without them. I guess codes > parenting.

And I was thinking black outlets and switches for sure. That's going to be a slick look!

 

[checkthisout]

And I was thinking black outlets and switches for sure. That's going to be a slick look!

I was liking this too, black outlets with stainless covers. Unfortunately, Home Depot in my area doesn't have any tamper-proof black outlets even though they have been required for a couple years now.....

So I justified not having them by thinking it would be much hard to see the slots to plug something in........

 

[dallusglockin]

I was liking this too, black outlets with stainless covers. Unfortunately, Home Depot in my area doesn't have any tamper-proof black outlets even though they have been required for a couple years now.....

So I justified not having them by thinking it would be much hard to see the slots to plug something in........

My HD has black 15 amp outlets in stock but not 20 amp. Debating whether or not the extra 5 amps are worth the trouble of tracking down outlets.

 

[pattenp]

My HD has black 15 amp outlets in stock but not 20 amp. Debating whether or not the extra 5 amps are worth the trouble of tracking down outlets.

You don't need 20A outlets. 15A outlets can be used on 20A circuit.

 

[checkthisout]

My HD has black 15 amp outlets in stock but not 20 amp. Debating whether or not the extra 5 amps are worth the trouble of tracking down outlets.

No, it's not.

When was the last time you saw any tool, appliance or whatever with a 20 AMP plug?

Remember, all 15 amp plugs including GFCI are rated for 20 AMP pass-through.

What's funny is in all my years as auto mechanic and house remodeler, I have never actually seen a 20 AMP plug on anything ever. LOL....I am either sheltered or they simply don't exist!

 

[simpler=better]

No, it's not.

When was the last time you saw any tool, appliance or whatever with a 20 AMP plug?

Remember, all 15 amp plugs including GFCI are rated for 20 AMP pass-through.

What's funny is in all my years as auto mechanic and house remodeler, I have never actually seen a 20 AMP plug on anything ever. LOL....I am either sheltered or they simply don't exist!

We have them on some heavy junk at work, but I've never seen one in the wild.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have seen a few things that have 5-20Ps- a wood planner, and a frozen food vending machine.

 

[MikeF2316]

No, it's not.

When was the last time you saw any tool, appliance or whatever with a 20 AMP plug?

Remember, all 15 amp plugs including GFCI are rated for 20 AMP pass-through.

What's funny is in all my years as auto mechanic and house remodeler, I have never actually seen a 20 AMP plug on anything ever. LOL....I am either sheltered or they simply don't exist!

We have these 2200 VA UPSes that we use at work that come with 5-20P on them. They're such a pain in the ***, the people responsible for making sure we can plug them in are not the same people who are actually responsible for plugging them in and turning them on. So we're always scrambling. Here's a pic of a couple that were just replaced due to age.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What do u do with the old ones?

What model are they? How many VA?

Usually UPS that size(they look large) are 208v/240v....

 

[simpler=better]

What do u do with the old ones?

What model are they? How many VA?

Usually UPS that size(they look large) are 208v/240v....

What he's trying to say it, if you need a safe disposal vendor he can help

 

[MikeF2316]

What do u do with the old ones?

What model are they? How many VA?

Usually UPS that size(they look large) are 208v/240v....

They are Tripplite SU2200RTXL2Ua. 2200 VA, 1600 Watts. But definitely 120 volts. This is the smallest size that (they say) supports a laser printer. We're at the end of a project to replace all the ones that are 3+ years old. After that age the batteries tend to cause problems. They are being recycled locally.

What he's trying to say it, if you need a safe disposal vendor he can help

Ha ha, yes they're just being "recycled". I don't think shipping this heavy stuff across a border is anything my company wants to get involved in...