Ebay issue

[nahudson]

So I sold some Midget wrenches and shipped them out, they were new and unopened, I shipped them in a poly envelope.

Yesterday, I receive notice from the buyer that I sent him an empty package, he sends me pics of the envelope and also of the small bag the midget wrenches come in, but it was an empty bag

According to the buyer, the envelope was not damaged, no evidence of tampering

I want to believe this person, but it seems very odd. Someone would have to of somehow opened the package in transit and took the wrenches out of the envelope and the small bag, then put the small bag back in the envelope and seal the envelope back up. This is a poly envelope, hard to open them and reseal them

Looks like I might be stuck on this one. I do not feel like I should issue a refund and I think I should just escalate it to Ebay and let them determine it or let Ebay refund him, but not me

I have sold lots of items on Ebay and I am considered a top seller, so I have no reason to send someone an empty package

Any thoughts or anyone else dealt with issues like this before

 

[jes_si]

Damn that *****!! Was the package insured? Does the receipt have the weight of the package? I would bring it up to eBay and have them get involved.

 

[snapmom]

I have received empty packages before. You take a risk shipping heavy items in poly. You need to give a full refund, before a claim, claims will kill your fee discounts.

 

[d.mcfarland]

USPS does free insurance up to $50 on first class packages right?

 

[drivesitfar]

what is the rating of the buyer?? there are several of the local idiots around here rifling through the standard mailboxes so i'm starting to have things shipped to the office. not really EBay's fault, but you do pay them for the service so your call. maybe a one time thing and hope it is not repeated and call it a cost of doing business.

 

[Davefr]

USPS does free insurance up to $50 on first class packages right?

No, only on priority mail

Any thoughts or anyone else dealt with issues like this before

Refund the buyer and move on. You can't win this one. If you drag it out you'll just get low DSR scores and a negative feedback.

Theft/loss in transit happens for numerous reasons.

 

[nine4gmc]

If you escalate it and ebay finds in the customers favor, they pay them from your paypal account the same as if you refund them now. Ebay does not cover any refunds or anything, they just determine who wins the dispute.

Sometimes you have to pay to play. It is possible that they fell out. I put items like that in either a zip lock bag or wrap in paper, then tape to a piece of cardboard that fits tight in the envelope, then tape a piece of cardboard on top like a wrench sandwich. Tape up the edges, then put it in the envelope. A little time spent prepping will prevent any bs like that from coming up. The package would have to be obviously destroyed for them to come out, at that point shipping insurance should cover it. Usps covers up to $50 on flat rate priority automatically I think.

I would refund in this case and be more careful in the future.

 

[comedyman809]

wrenches in an envelope??

 

[nahudson]

What stinks is that these wrenches hardly weigh anything, that is why I sent them First Class. I was leaning towards refund, it is around $12 and just moving on.

Just issued a refund, seems like I have no chance and not worth risking my discounts for $12

Part of me feels like I am getting scammed, but I have no way to prove it and that is what ***** about it

The wrench set weighs less than 13oz, I think some of you think I am shipping full size heavy wrenches in a poly envelope.

 

[road]

I have had that happen to me.
I sent a pkg to Europe. the pkg arrived in time but it was empty.
I emailed and spoke with both Ebay / P/P . I proved it to Ebay with my reciept from Canada Post weight included. but Ebay and P/P refunded the purchase I lost out .
I also had a item that never arrived but i had tracking & proof from ups I still lost the sale and the funds. it wasnt much $ but it was the point.
As a seller your **** outta luck with buyer discrepancies.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Did you all miss this part?

"According to the buyer, the envelope was not damaged, no evidence of tampering"

This sounds like he is accusing you of sending an empty package. At first glance I thought you were being played but now that I know it was only a 12 dollar item I'm not so sure. What's the buyer's feedback like? It's very possible the package was torn in transit and they fell out but there would have been obvious indications of this. For 12 bucks I'd probably just refund it and not deal with the hassle but it sounds fishy to me. Those bubble mailers are actually really tough.

 

[fatfillup]

For $12. I would refund and move on. Probably block that buyer too. No sense in risking your name for $12. May be a scam, may be real. who knows. Buy insurance and pass the cost on to the buyer. Note, this is why I sell in my store and not on line.

 

[91bronc300]

I would block that buyer from your auctions from now on.

 

[nahudson]

I was being accused of sending an empty packing, he asked me " If this was a joke"

Does not matter at this point, I just issued a refund.

I would think they just fell out, but they also had to fall out of the zip lock type packing these midget wrenches come in and he got the zip lock package

The set I sold is a little like this set, expect the pouch is like a zip lock bag
http://www.sears.com/craftsman-10-p...p-00942319000P?prdNo=2&blockNo=2&blockType=G2

 

[Rickster]

Do you have a copy of the shipping receipt with the weight of the package as it left your hands? If so try using this as a response to ebay & paypal to show he is scamming you.

Check the buyers feedback for other purchases he made and see if anyone else was having problems with him and point this out to ebay & paypal.

Let us know his ebay name so that everyone can add him to our blocked buyers list.

 

[paranoid56]

ebay doesnt care anymore. they will side on the buyer 99.99999% of the time no matter what. I stopped selling on ebay because of **** like this.

 

[Davefr]

Do you have a copy of the shipping receipt with the weight of the package as it left your hands? If so try using this as a response to ebay & paypal to show he is scamming you.

Doesn't matter. There are many, many things that can happen between seller dropping them in the mailbox and buyer receiving them.

This is no 100% proof the buyer is trying to scam anyone.

 

[thebeekeeper1]

You made a wise choice because, as above, Ebay finds in the buyer's favor almost always. It sounds as though you were scammed, but there's nothing you can do. It *****--but is part of "the Ebay experience."

 

[Farmall450]

You made a wise choice because, as above, Ebay finds in the buyer's favor almost always. It sounds as though you were scammed, but there's nothing you can do. It *****--but is part of "the Ebay experience."

Yeah that *****...

 

[Evan(CA)]

I was being accused of sending an empty packing, he asked me " If this was a joke"

What a punk. I'm changing my position, even though it's only 12 bucks I would have fought him on the the refund just on principle. It figures he's a ***** too, a smart guy would have torn the package and said they must have fallen out.

 

[sgs236]

As stated, EBAY will always side with the buyer, so you really have no choice but to refund his money. Just be glad it was only 12.00 dollars. Even if he leaves negative feedback for you; you can not leave negative feedback for him. Would be nice if you would post the name so we can add him to our blocked list.

 

[monomach]

What a punk. I'm changing my position, even though it's only 12 bucks I would have fought him on the the refund just on principle. It figures he's a ***** too, a smart guy would have torn the package and said they must have fallen out.

Well...I dunno. It's hard to imagine a buyer playing the refund game over 12 bucks. If he files too many disputes, ebay will start thinking he's full of ****, so why use up some of the good will he has with ebay over 12 bucks? Seems like he'd go right to something pricier because there's a limit to how many times he can do that.

 

[Evan(CA)]

Well...I dunno. It's hard to imagine a buyer playing the refund game over 12 bucks. If he files too many disputes, ebay will start thinking he's full of ****, so why use up some of the good will he has with ebay over 12 bucks? Seems like he'd go right to something pricier because there's a limit to how many times he can do that.

Maybe he chose to do it with a cheap item in the hopes that the seller would do exactly what he did? He got away with this one scot free. The OP should post his name, I'm curious to see what kind of feedback he has.

 

[Neverfly]

It costs a bit... But I secure things to a backing with zipties.
Pretty much, I don't leave room for doubt about things "falling out" of a package.

 

[jd_1138]

Maybe he chose to do it with a cheap item in the hopes that the seller would do exactly what he did? He got away with this one scot free. The OP should post his name, I'm curious to see what kind of feedback he has.

The buyer isn't necessarily a liar. I've received some pretty gnarly packages that were mangled with stuff broken or missing. Has only happened a few times out of 100's of shipments, though. Heavy and dense items in a poly bag -- seems like it could get caught in a machine.

 

[paranoid56]

another thing you can do is after selling and getting the money, pull the money out of the account. or transfer to a friends. they can only refund money if its in the account. once they try and cant they will close it and you can always open another lol

 

[warmpancakes]

another thing you can do is after selling and getting the money, pull the money out of the account. or transfer to a friends. they can only refund money if its in the account. once they try and cant they will close it and you can always open another lol

Paypal can and will negative a account, you cannot open a second account, they will also ding your credit report and send collectors after you

 

[warmpancakes]

if you can prove you shipped it, have the buyer file a claim,issue the refund. The contact ebay/PP for seller protection they should cover it for you

 

[Firestarter Fred]

Hey OP!

Any chance of you telling all of us here the user ID on eBay, so maybe we all can block him from doing any business with any of us?

 

[Supe]

hmm. I just opened a case with Paypal. I bought 3/8 Snap-On semi deep sockets from eBay and wondered why it was taking so long to deliver - so I check tracking and it shows it's in the area. I visit the shipping facility to pick up my sockets and find out that they logged an incident with FedEx because the envelope sockets were in, was empty. I took some pics of the empty envelope and was advised to not take the envelope. I wouldn't anyway, and I wouldn't sign for something I haven't received.

The choice of packaging was poor. An envelope! Not bolstered by sticky tape at its weakest areas, so they just slipped right on out. If only the vendor had properly packaged contents, I'd have a set of sockets.

Here's a pic of a staff member at shipping facility showing the damaged envelope. Yes, it looks almost as if it was sliced - though they asserted it was water damage. It is plausible - the pic doesn't show it but it appeared to have been in water.

 

[steveo3002]

if you havent left feedback try and word it like - refund given for your missing items , in the hopes that others might see it if he trys to scam others

and yeah tape envelopes extra good when mailing stuff

 

[Mohawk Dave]

What a punk. I'm changing my position, even though it's only 12 bucks I would have fought him on the the refund just on principle. It figures he's a ***** too, a smart guy would have torn the package and said they must have fallen out.

Common sense says he's pulling a fast one. Wrenches don't just magically get out of two envelopes and cause zero damage.

But to save face with your eBay ratings....BOHICA.

I had a dumba$$ give me Neutral feedback after selling him an OGIO dirtbike vest. He messaged me and asked what size it was. I replied, OSFM / One Size Fits Most.

He gets it and says it doesn't come close to fitting him or his son. Ok, it fits every other rider on Planet Earth even wearing a chest protector...so how frikin HUGE are you two!?

So, I tell dude to send it back and I'll refund him (Once again to save face), and he DOESN'T! He gives me NEUTRAL feedback and says "-2" ...WTF!!!

I contact eBay and tell them what happened and ask them to erase that ******** and they did jack squat for me. I'm rated 100% besides this jackwaggon's comment. -End Rant

 

[uart]

- In this case I think we can be 100% certain that the item was shipped.

- If the package was damaged then it would be likely that it was lost in transit, but seeing as the buyer is claiming that both the inner and outer packages were completely undamaged, then I think this was likely a scam.

 

[uart]

From a buyers perspective though, I have experienced ******** like this from a seller, so it's not unheard of.

About two years ago I bought a TV card (for computer) on ebay. A week later I received "it" in a fully sealed poly bag. Inside the poly bag was the correct cardboard packaging for the TV card, and inside that packaging was an old (and dead) 40GB harddrive. Absolutely nothing else, just a stupid dead harddrive rattling around in there.

So how the hell does that happen. I had no doubt that the idiot just shipped it exactly that way. I made an ebay claim on him and eventually he refunded me.

 

[cburnscrx]

I'll just say this...I've seen it all. Worked in a mall and the UPS driver would go from store to store with the back of the truck open. Watched a small package fall out of the back, get run over (literally) by a car. He must have seen it in the rear view and stopped and picked it up and all the smashed items. Came back to our store to "borrow a box", where he dumped all the parts in the box, taped it up, and made a new label. I am guessing he delivered it broken parts and all. It was disgusting, but I guess he figured it would be turned into UPS insurance and not hit his delivery record. In the end the seller would think he sold a good item, and the buyer would think it was a scam because the box was perfectly fine.

Are we sure in this instance the poly mailer was the original poly mailer?

 

[Fordman7795]

if you can prove you shipped it, have the buyer file a claim,issue the refund. The contact ebay/PP for seller protection they should cover it for you

Seller protection does not give you your money back....seller protection really only protects your reputation. The only time they would give you your money back in this kind of situation is out of courtesy. They do not have to give you a cent back because according to the rules the seller is 100% at fault. I had a similar incident about 8 months ago. However The poly mailed had a hole in it. It actually looked like the person opened it himself and took the screwdriver out but i had no proof and wanted to maintain my rating so i quickly refunded him. This is what you should do as well and just be lucky it was only $12. If you want to keep your $12 then expect a negative and a case because opened and losing your $12 anyway.

 

[warmpancakes]

Seller protection does not give you your money back....seller protection really only protects your reputation. The only time they would give you your money back in this kind of situation is out of courtesy. They do not have to give you a cent back because according to the rules the seller is 100% at fault. I had a similar incident about 8 months ago. However The poly mailed had a hole in it. It actually looked like the person opened it himself and took the screwdriver out but i had no proof and wanted to maintain my rating so i quickly refunded him. This is what you should do as well and just be lucky it was only $12. If you want to keep your $12 then expect a negative and a case because opened and losing your $12 anyway.

funny, I sold a set of line wrenches here a member in austrailia they went missing, seller protection refunded me my money, I was told by paypal have buyer file claim, then I issue a refund and then pp issued me a refund, including fees and shipping costs.

 

[Davefr]

Common sense says he's pulling a fast one. Wrenches don't just magically get out of two envelopes and cause zero damage.

Yes they can. Steel is stronger then envelopes.

Envelopes don't always seal 100% at the flap. Tape can come loose. The buyer could have missed a small slit.

I'd like to see the buyer's feedback profile. That should be the biggest clue whether this is a scam.

P.S. Postal service worker's like tools too!! So do neighbors!!

if you can prove you shipped it, have the buyer file a claim,issue the refund. The contact ebay/PP for seller protection they should cover it for you

Seller protection only overs INR. SNAD claims aren't covered. If the buyer claims SNAD then seller looses. (INR is generally used if the package never arrives. SNAD is what the buyer should claim since a package arrived but contents didn't match the description).

Ebay has been known to refund both buyer and seller in certain situations for the sake of maintaining good relations. (especially if the $ amount isn't too high)

 

[Neverfly]

I'd like to see the buyer's feedback profile. That should be the biggest clue whether this is a scam.

Should be but 'should' and 'are' are two different things.

Since ebay does not allow sellers to warn about bad buyers with feedback anymore, buyer feedback is totally and utterly useless.

 

[Skyline]

There is an eBay application called Shipsaver that provides shipping insurance. It's $.79/$100 domestic, and $1.00/$100 international. You can set your preferences to automaticaly insure shipment over a certain amount. I insure everything domestic over $60 and ALL international shipments. They also cover shipment costs. But still, for a $12 item, I'd just use 1st class and "self insure".

As far as envelopes for 1st class stuff, I use padded paper envelopes from Uline for small items, and reinforce top and bottom edges with packing tape. I get problems very rarely.

I really wish I could know 100% if I was being scammed when someone gets an empty package, but at least I'm insured for anything expensive. There's just no way to know, so the only solution is to issue a refund, and I will usually block the buyer. I guess even if the buyer is completely honest, and really did get an empty package, he could also have a tool thief in his local post office. I ship over 100 eBay packages each month, and problems with USPS are very rare.

I do get the feeling that if one's packaging is insufficient, (ie. not strong enough for the mailmen to use it as a football without breaking open,) that if anything falls out, it's "finders keepers" in the Post Office. On the other hand, if they run over it accidentally with a truck, your recipient will receive a crushed but retaped package with an apology note. I'm not saying this is fact, it's just my guess.