eBay pkg arrived empty

[route246]

I received an uninsured eBay pkg today busted open and wrapped in plastic with a note from the USPS saying they are sorry. In this case either I get screwed or the seller gets screwed but this is a huge hassle any way you look at it for all parties involved. Is it the seller's responsibility to ship in a secure package?

It's only $57 at stake here but it's the first time it happened to me and ends up being another reason for avoiding eBay whenever possible.

 

[browntown]

Sounds like usps destroyed the package or was the package obviously not strong enough?

 

[bmwpower]

Ugh. It's the sellers responsibility to get the package to you in one piece. File a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Did he insure the package? Poorly packaged?

 

[Kirbot]

I pack things like they will have to survive a train wreck, and I always insure packages worth more than about $15-$20.
I've only ever had to refund one person their money.


Like bmwpower said, It's the sellers responsibility to make sure you get the item in one piece.

 

[BJ42LX]

What the others have said...

As a buyer, eBay will stand behind you on this one. Message the seller, show him a pic of the mess. If he gives you any grief resort to eBay. It make take a week or two, but you'll get your $57 back.

Yes, it is a hassle.

 

[johnnybentwrench]

^

 

[jrodc455]

Yeah contact the seller first and see what they do. Make sure to be nice...until its time to not be nice.

 

[half_full]

USPS - Is there another service that will accept payment for a service and not provide? I know, harsh but I have had a few problems... Last one was glow plugs for my truck coming from NY. Tracking last showed them leaving the USA and postmaster says they are not responsible.

 

[TOOL MASTER]

Contact usps and ask them for a 'material recovery search' form....they will find it...take your box

 

[toolfreak]

I pack things like they will have to survive a train wreck, and I always insure packages worth more than about $15-$20.
I've only ever had to refund one person their money.

It's the sellers responsibility to make sure you get the item in one piece.

I know that many of the sellers on here pack it well enough it would survive world war 3. I had some ratchets shipped to my mom's house since I wouldn't be home to sign for them and she bitched about how long it took to open lol.

 

[jcp907]

The same thing happened to my wife. She ordered a book, dvd, etc. 105.00 of merchandise in total. It arrived in the same we care, but we lost your stuff bag. The only thing in the envelop was an invoice for the order. It was a padded envelope. I would have expected it to make it in transit.

The vendor is more than willing to resend, so no issue there, however, before we heard back from the vendor, my wife called the local post office, and the lady there is searching for it and will have the other post offices that it routed through, search as well. We hope to hear something on Monday. Heck, they exceeded my expectations simply by answering the phone (that's sad, really).

That's my long way of saying offer a description to the post office of what to look for.

 

[treasureseeker]

I know that many of the sellers on here pack it well enough it would survive world war 3. I had some ratchets shipped to my mom's house since I wouldn't be home to sign for them and she bitched about how long it took to open lol.

That was probably me. Those bubble flat rate priority mailing envelopes are pretty fragile and USPS requiring them for over .75” has been a disaster. USPS has gone back to letting you use the cardboard flat rates but has not made people aware of the change back.

 

[marnav1]

The seller isn't required to insure anything as far as I know, you should have asked for it and paid the extra fee. He should pack it well but I don't know about any "standards" for packing. I don't see any connection to Ebay so don't blame them. You can't assume what the seller will do, get it in writing or pay yourself.............

 

[marnav1]

Ugh. It's the sellers responsibility to get the package to you in one piece. File a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Did he insure the package? Poorly packaged?

Not if a postal machine ate it. Should USPS cover it? IMO yes but they don't. Another reason for insurance. I hope you get a good outcome but I wouldn't count on it.

 

[alex71]

This is clear cut: the seller has to make good. If he refuses, file a not as described complaint with ebay, and you will get all your money back, including shipping.

The couple of times a buyer has reported a situation like this one, I sent them another of whatever it was USPS lost. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[moboman]

Contact the seller, he may have it insured with a 3rd party insurer or he may just pay the claims himself if he ever has them. With it only being 60 bucks he probably did not want to spend the extra couple of bucks for insurance with ebay being the way they are by ripping off the seller. That's of course a discussion for another topic.

 

[TOOL MASTER]

The whole new fees on shipping is a rip off.........

 

[toolfreak]

That was probably me. Those bubble flat rate priority mailing envelopes are pretty fragile and USPS requiring them for over .75” has been a disaster. USPS has gone back to letting you use the cardboard flat rates but has not made people aware of the change back.

Yep, it sure was. Donkdonk was the other.

 

[route246]

It's the standard priority mail cardboard flat envelope. Should have been strong enough for the three Knippex pliers inside. USPS clearly at fault.

Sounds like usps destroyed the package or was the package obviously not strong enough?

I already politely contacted through the ebay messaging system. No private messages here. I know that drill. I will file a complaint if it comes to that but I expect the seller knows this.

Ugh. It's the sellers responsibility to get the package to you in one piece. File a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Did he insure the package? Poorly packaged?

Yes, I've been nice. My last sentence is, "Please advise." Very factual and I offered to post pictures.

Yeah contact the seller first and see what they do. Make sure to be nice...until its time to not be nice.

I really don't like ebay and I don't like USPS. Unfortunately, both of them act like monopolies, meaning they don't give a hoot about their customers, in this case, ebay sellers.

USPS - Is there another service that will accept payment for a service and not provide? I know, harsh but I have had a few problems... Last one was glow plugs for my truck coming from NY. Tracking last showed them leaving the USA and postmaster says they are not responsible.

Contact usps and ask them for a 'material recovery search' form....they will find it...take your box

Insurance is really expensive for a seller. It raises the price of your goods (yes, it is passed on to the buyer but it makes your goods have a higher net price which affects what they will bid).

Not if a postal machine ate it. Should USPS cover it? IMO yes but they don't. Another reason for insurance. I hope you get a good outcome but I wouldn't count on it.

Yes, I don't see how the buyer has any responsibility. That would be criminal in my opinion. When I sell on ebay or Amazon I always ship with the knowledge that I may have to issue a full refund, no questions asked.

This is clear cut: the seller has to make good. If he refuses, file a not as described complaint with ebay, and you will get all your money back, including shipping.

The couple of times a buyer has reported a situation like this one, I sent them another of whatever it was USPS lost. No ifs, ands, or buts.

 

[route246]

You know, the most brutal thing about this is I got a very good price (IMO) on these three pliers. That part really *****.

 

[nate379]

No, it's the USPS's responsibility. Seller handed off ownership/responsibility of item once it hit their counter. THEY didn't perform their job as THEY were paid to do.

Quite simple.

Ugh. It's the sellers responsibility to get the package to you in one piece. File a complaint with eBay/Paypal. Did he insure the package? Poorly packaged?

 

[bmwpower]

No, it's the USPS's responsibility. Seller handed off ownership/responsibility of item once it hit their counter. THEY didn't perform their job as THEY were paid to do.

Quite simple.

Thats fine and dandy, but the seller shipped it so if there is an insurance claim, he's got to deal with it. The buyer deals with the seller/eBay, not USPS.

 

[Skin]

It's the standard priority mail cardboard flat envelope. Should have been strong enough for the three Knippex pliers inside. USPS clearly at fault

i dont agree with that one bit. Those cardboard mailers are meant for, at MOST, a DVD. Pliers, or any metal object with some heft to it really, in that is a joke but whatever.

I'll just say that there is always a common denominator with these threads regardless of who is blaming who and thats the tool is always in an envelope be it paper or bubble envelope. Perhaps thats a clue?

 

[route246]

I'm only saying that to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. It should have been a corrugated box but the USPS should not be busting these envelopes open.

i dont agree with that one bit. Those cardboard mailers are meant for, at MOST, a DVD. Pliers, or any metal object with some heft to it really, in that is a joke but whatever.

I'll just say that there is always a common denominator with these threads regardless of who is blaming who and thats the tool is always in an envelope be it paper or bubble envelope. Perhaps thats a clue?

 

[SMKS]

That was probably me. Those bubble flat rate priority mailing envelopes are pretty fragile and USPS requiring them for over .75” has been a disaster. USPS has gone back to letting you use the cardboard flat rates but has not made people aware of the change back.

I don't think USPS ever "required" the new flat rate bubble mailers for packages more than 3/4" thick. That was a memo that was misinterpreted by some post offices. My local post office never said anything about the 3/4" restriction and I've never had any problem shipping things thicker than 3/4" in a flat rate envelope.

This link has a little more info on the topic:
http://bookthink.com/wordpress/?p=1127

 

[Stuey]

i dont agree with that one bit. Those cardboard mailers are meant for, at MOST, a DVD. Pliers, or any metal object with some heft to it really, in that is a joke but whatever.

I'll just say that there is always a common denominator with these threads regardless of who is blaming who and thats the tool is always in an envelope be it paper or bubble envelope. Perhaps thats a clue?

I'm only saying that to give the seller the benefit of the doubt. It should have been a corrugated box but the USPS should not be busting these envelopes open.

I'm sorry, but I agree with Skin. Those envelopes are meant for flat documents, maybe a tool or two if they're relatively flat and light.

But 3 pliers? A document envelope is not proper packaging. Sounds like the seller was trying to save a buck or two or a few minutes of time.

It's not your fault the seller took shortcuts, and if I were you, I'd skip the hassle of trying to deal with the USPS and go straight to the seller and paypal/ebay.

 

[mrb]

how is insurance really expensive? i pay endicia $1 per $100 insurance or something like that. I insure most things i ship

 

[CD1]

I'm sorry, but I agree with Skin. Those envelopes are meant for flat documents, maybe a tool or two if they're relatively flat and light.

But 3 pliers? A document envelope is not proper packaging. Sounds like the seller was trying to save a buck or two or a few minutes of time.

It's not your fault the seller took shortcuts, and if I were you, I'd skip the hassle of trying to deal with the USPS and go straight to the seller and paypal/ebay.

I agree. Post your loss with Ebay/Paypal promptly, then notify the seller.

 

[Rickster]

I have shipped entire wrench sets in the usps flat rate envelopes. It's all about the internal packaging and reinforcing the envelope seams with some clear tape. The new bubble wrap mailers are way better than the cardboard mailers. Once again I package the internals on a backer board and the envelope is nothing more than a protective sleeve.

Now if usps would just make that small box as big as the bubble mailer.......

 

[Kirbot]

I have shipped entire wrench sets in the usps flat rate envelopes. It's all about the internal packaging and reinforcing the envelope seams with some clear tape. The new bubble wrap mailers are way better than the cardboard mailers. Once again I package the internals on a backer board and the envelope is nothing more than a protective sleeve.

Now if usps would just make that small box as big as the bubble mailer.......

x2

I took a lesson from you for packing.
I use loads of flat rate envelopes, but I pack the properly.

I take a piece of cardboard twice the size of the envelope, I zip-tie the tools down to it, I fold it in half to make a cardboard "sandwich" for the tools, I wrap it all up in tape and then I slip that in an flat rate envelope. And then of course I wrap the envelope up with tape.

The cardboard inside would be more than sufficient to ship them in, the envelope is only there to get the flat rate price.

I've shipped some pretty big, bulky stuff like that, and they have always arrive safely.

 

[bgarrett]

I got an empty package from the Post Office. I went to the Post Office and was directed to the 'lost and found' office. No one was there but my part was on his desk. I took it

 

[35mastr]

Package was un insured as the op says. So the seller should not be liable.

It should be the carrier.

It would take a bomb to open up the stuff I send out. But I know how to package stuff so it stays in the boxes.

 

[alex71]

Package was un insured as the op says. So the seller should not be liable.

It should be the carrier.

It would take a bomb to open up the stuff I send out. But I know how to package stuff so it stays in the boxes.

If the carrier is liable (in this case, probably not), they are liable to the seller. The seller is liable to the buyer.

Here is a similar situation: you hire a general contractor to work on your house. One of the subs he hires screws up. Who do you go after to get satisfaction? The general.

Same thing here.

that's just how it works in commerce.

 

[Stuey]

I have shipped entire wrench sets in the usps flat rate envelopes. It's all about the internal packaging and reinforcing the envelope seams with some clear tape. The new bubble wrap mailers are way better than the cardboard mailers. Once again I package the internals on a backer board and the envelope is nothing more than a protective sleeve.

Now if usps would just make that small box as big as the bubble mailer.......

That sounds like a very secure way to to use the envelopes. But I'm guessing that the seller in this case simply threw the pliers in there and hoped for the best.

Package was un insured as the op says. So the seller should not be liable.

It should be the carrier.

It would take a bomb to open up the stuff I send out. But I know how to package stuff so it stays in the boxes.

It may be the carrier's fault, but the burden of proper packing still falls to the seller. The buyer shouldn't be responsible for any loss or the time-consuming task of tracking down a missing item.

 

[route246]

As a percentage of net profit it is insanely expensive. If you sell something for $10, your profit might be $5 at best. ebay and shipping materials takes 20% or more of that. If you add insurance to $4, what percentage of that $4 is the insurance? It's huge.

And, it is part of the overall cost. You might try to claim that the buyer pays but the buyer's propensity to consume is adversely affected because it adds to his out-of-pocket cost. If you don't pay that $1 to the USPS the buyer ends up paying less and/or you end up with 20%+ more profit, whichever way you want to look at it.

Any way you look at it, the USPS takes $1 more for providing nothing.

how is insurance really expensive? i pay endicia $1 per $100 insurance or something like that. I insure most things i ship

 

[route246]

Yes, unfortunately, everyone loses in the situation except for ebay and the USPS. ebay and the USPS loses in the long run because it eventually burns out buyers and sellers and they end up not generating transactions but both ebay and the USPS don't care about this. Amazon and other online retailing operations do care and that's why they are winning and ebay is losing. I don't know what Amazon pays when they ship using USPS but I'm willing to be it is very highly discounted.

It may be the carrier's fault, but the burden of proper packing still falls to the seller. The buyer shouldn't be responsible for any loss or the time-consuming task of tracking down a missing item.

 

[moboman]

As a percentage of net profit it is insanely expensive. If you sell something for $10, your profit might be $5 at best. ebay and shipping materials takes 20% or more of that. If you add insurance to $4, what percentage of that $4 is the insurance? It's huge.

And, it is part of the overall cost. You might try to claim that the buyer pays but the buyer's propensity to consume is adversely affected because it adds to his out-of-pocket cost. If you don't pay that $1 to the USPS the buyer ends up paying less and/or you end up with 20%+ more profit, whichever way you want to look at it.

Any way you look at it, the USPS takes $1 more for providing nothing.

Not to mention if you add that dollar or two to the shipping cost on ebay the buyer leaves you 2 or 3 stars for the DST and claims you are ripping him off. So the dollar comes out of your pocket as the seller after ebay/paypal take 15%, and USPS takes a minimum of $5.

 

[route246]

I just spent the better part of an hour trying to navigate the ebay site to enter three cases for this single shipment. As expected the seller responded and said I should contact the USPS and she did not volunteer a refund. She's played this game before. I've already invested too much time already. The navigation of the site just to open a case is a royal PITA.

I put this in each of 3 cases:

I received a ripped-open, empty Priority Mail envelope for the following three auctions:
170634xxxxxxx
180660xxxxxxx
180660xxxxxxx
The order number is: 86834xxxxxxx
The USPS resealed the envelope and mentioned that it arrived in San Jose empty. I've spent a great deal of time navigating the ebay site sending messages and attempting to resolve this. Please take care of it and get back to me when you have resolved it. Thank you.

Hopefully, this will be the end of my grief. I filled in all of the options correctly and stated that "Either is OK" with respect to full refund or receive the item for resolution. This is the third time I've had delivery issues. The last time I learned my lesson and the seller stalled me out of filing a claim by saying she was out on break from school and would resolve it as soon as she got back. Once the statue of limitations lapsed she was long gone. Never got to hang the negative feedback on her, either. I'm not making that mistake again.

 

[route246]

I have no defense with the feedback? My paper trail is all through the ebay system and ebay won't go back and remove malicious feedback, assuming I did everything by the book? She already left positive feedback but I'm not sure if she can change that or not. If and when I get a refund I plan to leave her positive feedback as a courtesy, even though she didn't immediately offer it to me.

Not to mention if you add that dollar or two to the shipping cost on ebay the buyer leaves you 2 or 3 stars for the DST and claims you are ripping him off. So the dollar comes out of your pocket as the seller after ebay/paypal take 15%, and USPS takes a minimum of $5.

 

[treasureseeker]

For EBay, insurance is for the seller and the seller is responsible for the item getting to the buyer in condition won. Give the seller a chance to make it right then open a dispute if needed. Usually the lost items are from a package not packed well enough for the weight or sharp objects inside. USPS doesn’t take responsibly for items without insurance.