Ecofoil for pole barn “insulation”

[wingrider02]

Hello all,

My wife and I are still planning out the finishing of our 40x56 pole barn, and one thing I keep thinking about is insulation. Spray foam is expensive, and cellulose is certainly an option.

My wife seems to look at a lot of stuff on Pinterest, and located this company called Ecofoil down in IA. https://www.ecofoil.com/pole-barn-insulation

I must admit, I am sceptical about using this as a stand along product, being in MN, and having in floor heat.

So, I contacted this company via email regarding my questions, and got a response quickly.

Here is what was written: “This material is a stand alone application, you don't need anything else in conjunction with the radiant barrier to increase the insulation. People have used other insulators with the radiant barrier in the past and it does not affect it negatively, you just don't get much added value.
Being in Minnesota, you would need the double bubble radiant barrier. This material will keep 96% of the heat in the building during the cooler months as well as 96% of the heat out during the summer months. The double bubble material will give a large enough air chamber so you never have to worry about any sort of condensation issues as well.”

I can’t find many reviews on this product, and don’t wish to toss money into the air, but if it would work, that would save us a bit of money.

They also make a product that would go under the slab, there again, not sure about it.

What are your thoughts about all this?

Thanks for any help!

 

[climb.on]

It's mostly BS. It's just bubble wrap. There are many different brands of the same stuff. There is some added value to the foil/radiant component, but ONLY when the foil side is exposed. The minute you put plywood, other insulation, sheetrock or anything else in contact with the foil side, there is no appreciable value/effectiveness to the reflective nature of those products. Yes it would be a vapor barrier when taped, but so is poly.

You may notice there is no mention of the R-Value of the product. It's probably like R-4 or something.

I'm sure there are some appropriate applications for this type of product, but insulating a Pole Barn in MN, isn't one of them.

 

[readhead]

It's bubble wrap and it will fail. Install real insulation. We have used a product that is 1/2" FG with white on one side and silver on the other. It is effective for keeping heat out but it does not keep heat in very well.

 

[ltusler]

I am just down the road from you in Greenfield. My Morton building had the posts 6' OC so i used a 6" thick 6' wide product with a reinforced vapor barrier and staple tabs. Then horizontal 2x4 2' OC up the walls and then the garden variety white tin. So I guess I'd figure out you interior framing and go from there. The shop space is 30x30 with a 11' side wall to 14' peak and a suspended ceiling. I keep it at 45 in the winter, then it will ramp up to 55 in about a half hour. The materials are available at Menards. Your welcome to come and check it out.

 

[wingrider02]

Thanks all for confirming my suspicions. I didn’t really consider it as a good option, but wanted to check to be sure it wasn’t something I should look into more.

 

[Marctrees]

In Hot climates it has SOME value, but ONLY if specifically properly installed.

In cold climates, basically worthless.

Overall ,in almost all cases not worth it.

The ONLY possible value is controlling condensation, again, need to study.

Don't listen to someone that sells it, read what scientists say.

Marc

http://www.directenergy.com/blog/radiant-energy-barriers-right-for-your-home/

https://structuretech1.com/wp-conte...barriers-aka-foil-insulation/_index.html_gzip

https://www.google.com/search?q=orn...j69i60l3j0.10568j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

 

[dv8customs]

I have a similar insulation in my shop. It does nothing in winter to keep heat in but in the Texas summer it does help. I have two roll up doors that have no insulation on them and you can feel the heat radiating off of them from three feet away, the bubble wrap keeps that from happening on the rest of the building.

That type of insulation is better than having nothing but that is about all I can say for it.

 

[Marctrees]

After ALOT of recent study,... I agree w what dv8 says, but in
TX... NOT in MN.

We are starting a new pole build shop 1300 ft sq next weekin TX.... plan on insulating the walls and bottom chords of trusses 9'6" ceiling w 6" Perforated ( allowing vapor passing due to being in "Hot /Humid climate") vinyl faced 5' wide batts.. and am still toying w radiant foil stapled on underside of my roof purlins to hopefully reduce the solar gain into the "attic".

We will have a ridge vent and gable end intake louvers and the Scotch-brite air permeable "Closure strips" at bottom ends of roofing sheets.

dv8 - What do you think ? Do I include the bubble foil in the mix?

DV8 - I just saw you are in E TX - Where? I'm on Toledo Bend just 5 mile W of LA border 25 miles S of Hemphill.

Marc

 

[dv8customs]

After ALOT of recent study,... I agree w what dv8 says, but in
TX... NOT in MN.

We are starting a new pole build shop 1300 ft sq next weekin TX.... plan on insulating the walls and bottom chords of trusses 9'6" ceiling w 6" Perforated ( allowing vapor passing due to being in "Hot /Humid climate") vinyl faced 5' wide batts.. and am still toying w radiant foil stapled on underside of my roof purlins to hopefully reduce the solar gain into the "attic".

We will have a ridge vent and gable end intake louvers and the Scotch-brite air permeable "Closure strips" at bottom ends of roofing sheets.

dv8 - What do you think ? Do I include the bubble foil in the mix?

DV8 - I just saw you are in E TX - Where? I'm on Toledo Bend just 5 mile W of LA border 25 miles S of Hemphill.

Marc

If you aren't going to use the "attic" space for anything I wouldn't worry about it. I have a storage loft on one end of my shop so I get up there regularly for stuff and having that barrier keeps it bearable in there.

I am about 100 miles north of you in Carthage

 

[ard]

Radiant barrier, as a COMPONENT of an insulation system is fantastic.

Unfortunately, these guys sound like scammers. as a 'stand alone' it will not be adequate. It may keep "96%" or radiant heat in, but not thermally conducted heat.

Use a sheet radiant barrier- NOT 'bubbles'. In addition to standard cellulose, spray or fiberglass insulation. Pay attention to vapor and air barriers as well.

 

[Blazinzuk]

Pretty much what Ard said above. As a component in a well planned insulation install not a bad idea. But planning a multi stage insulation install is beyond my knowledge.

But as someone who did a ton of research in insulation and actual r values instead of calculated r values it does not meet their specs in the real world. In a lab absolutely, but not in real life

 

[mgbbob]

I have a new metal building and had the double bubble insulation installed mainly to control condensation. I found that there was benefit in the cold weather. The metal frame still radiated considerable cold I would guess from the metal fasteners. I had some left over from the door openings and covered an area with an inside layer and it made a considerable difference. The install in the building process was $1 per square foot. I would recommend it at that price. I may and an inside layer on the rest of the building as a stop gap measure. I think one advantage is the ease of install and removal in case of a roof leak. If I add a second layer on the inside walls it is an easy process to slide to rigid foam in later when funding is available.

 

[Marctrees]

Ok.. So I will NOT be ever using my 3/12 attic for storage..But I was still thinking of putting the radiant barrier on the underside of my roof purlins to aid the bottom chord 6" fiberglass to keep the below area cooler...hopefully reducing AC cooling cost.

We WILL be AC'ing the shop 6 months/ yr.

So, if I did that, I would buy the foil film w/o bubble core, and just staple to underside of purlins, sagging a few inches as recommended.

Approx 17 cents/ sq ft ( about $250 for my 1500 ft sq roof) PLUS labor time hammer stapling on Baker Scaffold with a helper wheeling it.

So figure 33 cents / ft sq total cost.... $500 total matl and labor for 1500 ft sq.

Thoughts? Install the RB or skip it ??

After all my study I am still not sure.

Marc

 

[ard]

Ok.. So I will NOT be ever using my 3/12 attic for storage..But I was still thinking of putting the radiant barrier on the underside of my roof purlins to aid the bottom chord 6" fiberglass to keep the below area cooler...hopefully reducing AC cooling cost.

We WILL be AC'ing the shop 6 months/ yr.

So, if I did that, I would buy the foil film w/o bubble core, and just staple to underside of purlins, sagging a few inches as recommended.

Approx 17 cents/ sq ft ( about $250 for my 1500 ft sq roof) PLUS labor time hammer stapling on Baker Scaffold with a helper wheeling it.

So figure 33 cents / ft sq total cost.... $500 total matl and labor for 1500 ft sq.

Thoughts? Install the RB or skip it ??

After all my study I am still not sure.

Marc

Yes, do it.

I laid the RB over the roof rafters, let it sag down. Then sheathed the roof.

Stapling to the bottom is a PITA- eventually the staples pull through and it falls down.

When I ran out CA mandated energy calcs it saved me one ton of AC on the second floor, so a 25% savings.

 

[Marctrees]

Looks like I'll go with these guys.

Honest website. Marc

https://atticfoil.com/


https://warehousefoil.com/index.php/diy-guide/metal-buildings-with-wood-framing-installation/

 

[skippydoo]

I installed attic foil in my home. I had a indoor/outdoor thermometer already installed and the foil lowered my temps in my attic atleast 20 degrees. Now to be honest, I can't tell I did this when it comes to my electric bill for my central air.

 

[climb.on]

Ok.. So I will NOT be ever using my 3/12 attic for storage..But I was still thinking of putting the radiant barrier on the underside of my roof purlins to aid the bottom chord 6" fiberglass to keep the below area cooler...hopefully reducing AC cooling cost.

We WILL be AC'ing the shop 6 months/ yr.

So, if I did that, I would buy the foil film w/o bubble core, and just staple to underside of purlins, sagging a few inches as recommended.

Approx 17 cents/ sq ft ( about $250 for my 1500 ft sq roof) PLUS labor time hammer stapling on Baker Scaffold with a helper wheeling it.

So figure 33 cents / ft sq total cost.... $500 total matl and labor for 1500 ft sq.

Thoughts? Install the RB or skip it ??

After all my study I am still not sure.

Marc

Skip it. Radiant need to be exposed on one side. One side must be exposed to an airspace...but even then I wouldn't use it. As soon as you sandwich it between two things it becomes worthless. You will better off spending that money on more insulation or better air sealing or better windows.

READ THIS ARTICLE "Stay away from Foil Faced Bubble Wrap.

AND THIS ONE "Radiant Barriers - A solution in search of a problem."
This one does talk about some value in radiant barriers in uninsulated barns.

.

 

[Marctrees]

climb.on - Good articles you linked to.

You are correct - It cannot be installed sandwiched - so I'm not doing that

- "Ok.. So I will NOT be ever using my 3/12 attic for storage..But I was still thinking of putting the radiant barrier on the underside of my roof purlins to aid the bottom chord 6" fiberglass to keep the below area cooler...hopefully reducing AC cooling cost."

So there will be a 1 1/2" minimum airspace above it, and a few feet airspace below it.

Marc