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Educate me on welders

l_bilyk

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So I've decided to purchase MIG welder and don't really know where to start.

My needs include welding mild steel tube for roll bars, some body work, and the odd time a piece of aluminum.

These are the welders I can chose from since they are available through my work:

Lincoln Welders

The one I am thinking of getting is a Weld-Pak 3200 HD.

What do you suggest?
 
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BoostAddiction

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None of the weld-pak series I saw there produces AC which is necessary to weld aluminum.

I used to be a certified weldor many years ago and used Miller, Lincoln and Hobart stuff mostly. Welded aluminum, stainless and some carbon steel. All were decent, some had features others didn't etc. That said, I now have a Lincoln TIGmate 185, which does pretty much everything I need it to do, including aluminum. My tasks sound much like yours.

Which leads me to the next topic- are you sure you want a MIG welder? IMO, it is easier to stick things together with a MIG, but actually harder to produce consistent, quality welds with one without lots of practice, and really good fitting. If you are really building roll cages, and this is not a production situation, I'd consider a TIG welder. They are slower (much slower, actually) but TIG is the preferred method for high-quality welds where speed is not important.

Best of all, your welds can be displayed proudly!

Just food for thought!

-Will
 
OP
L

l_bilyk

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Ideally. But I justify shelling out the cash for a professional welder since we have a whole array at the shop and it's rare that anything around the home needs welding.

So I was just looking for a cheap, general purpose consumer-oriented welder

But i really have no idea where to start. :(
 

Roadster

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What thickness are you planning to weld? And how important is it that you have aluminum capability?

If you need to weld 1/4" steel or thicker, then you should go with a welder that uses a 230V power source to get the necessary amps to have a decent duty cycle. (Duty cycle determines the number of minutes you can weld continuously in a 10-minute period.) 115V won't work very well on thicker material.

And if you're going to be MIG welding aluminum, which requires a really soft wire, you really need a spool gun to avoid bird-nests at the wire feeder.

Miller has a very helpful MIG buyer's guide on their website. Check it out...

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/MMMBG.pdf
 

Roadster

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BoostAddiction said:
None of the weld-pak series I saw there produces AC which is necessary to weld aluminum.

The 3200 HD can weld aluminum with the optional K664-2 Aluminum Welding Kit, but I wouldn't recommend it.
 

krooser

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The Pro-Mig 135 should work well for you..it's a 110v machine.

There are differences in opinion on mig vs. flux BUT I'd use mig...easy to produce nice welds.

My old Weld-pak did a nice job on lighter jobs...no reason the 135 shouldn't.
 

REFLEXX

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save yourself some trouble:

1. get a MIG and use flux-cored wire. No issues with gas, refilling, renting a bottle, etc...

2. 220v, Don't even think about using a 110v. The one at Home Depot is decent.

3. you will have functional welds, but not the prettiest.

4. use "anti-splatter" spray to keep the splatter from sticking too much.

5. forget welding aluminum, that's an art. take a class in that case.

6. prep your metal with wire wheel and remove oils/dirt.

7. enjoy your new "metal glue gun"

8. get really good at mig, then buy a Tig and learn all over again.
 

W-Cummins

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BoostAddiction said:
None of the weld-pak series I saw there produces AC which is necessary to weld aluminum.
-Will

Mig Welders don't need AC to weld AL
 

YJTypeR

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If you're set on 110, any of the 135/140 amp machines will be alright (Miller,Hobart, Lincoln). The 220V step is a very large one though. Even though the home depot lincoln states it can weld up to something like 5/16", you really have to bevel and double pass to get that. Don't you think it odd that the 110v 135amp machine can weld thicker than my Miller 175 (1/4"). You are limited more practically to 3/16" with a 135amp machine in single pass. I wouldn't trust it much beyond that. People will swear up and down they can weld 4" thick steel with a 80amp wirefeeder, but if you want it quality, go by these recommendations. And if you are building roll cages, i'd definitely make the jump to 220V. A 175 amp machine would fit your needs perfectly.

For aluminum welding, you are talking a large increase in price. Spool gun setups are quite pricey. But you definitely can weld Al with Mig.

Another thing to consider with the home depot lincolns, is they only have 4 or 5 voltage settings. Many people don't have a problem with this, but once you get more experience the infinitely variable voltage controls of the lincoln *** plus and the millers is a nice asset. You do pay more for this though, and I don't think they sell the lincoln plus series at Home Depot etc.
 

MXtras

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YJTypeR said:
..... But you definitely can weld Al with Mig.....

True. But guys - I am here with almost three years of trying and spending money to tell you - if you want to weld AL thinner than about 3/8", go for TIG. Period. Yes - the spool guns are made for AL, but the MIG process doesn't like lower amperage AL welding.

For most of your steel projects - go for a 220V MIG machine. I doubt you would be unhappy with any of the brand name machines.

My personal and professional choice is Miller, but that's primarily because that's what I grew up with and Miller has been the choice of every company I have worked in for the past 20+ years. Millers ar good machines, Hobarts are about the same (I have heard they are the same, but unconfirmed). I don't care for Lincolns but many will swear by them. As far as the HF or HD models - all I can say is be careful. I have no direct experience with the inexpensive machines so I really can not say.

Scott
 

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REFLEXX

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MX,

you like the Millers so much you decided on blue for everything!!! I still LOVE those cabinets!

But who am I to speak. My stuff is all going to be Crafstman red & black. I happen to have a Lincoln (red & black, imagine that).
 

mikeatrpi

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REFLEXX said:
save yourself some trouble:

1. get a MIG and use flux-cored wire. No issues with gas, refilling, renting a bottle, etc...

I disagree. You will definitely want gas, and its a must if you're welding aluminum. Flux core is useful if you're welding outdoors, or if you want to eek a little more penetration out of your machine at the high end. Otherwise, its messy and ugly... and nearly impossible to weld sheet metal with.
 

krooser

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We've been over this before but my Lincoln was set-up for flux and I couldn't convert it to gas fast enough...if you're going to weld something take a little pride in your work and make it look nice...a mig welder will do that for you.
 
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Darren M.

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I've just recently been in the position our thread author is finding himself in. From my own personal experience I MUCH prefer the MIG gas vs. Mig flux core. I taught myself how to put two pieces of metal together (I am NOT a weldor and won't claim to be one.) with an antiquated stick welder. Once I determined I was semi-proficient with that I opted for a small 110v Miller which came w/ flux core. I used up 3 reals of it and was pretty happy w/ the outcome. Then I came across a tank for next to nothing and had to buy it. Got it filled the next day, attached it and I can honestly say that unless it's an emergency the flux core will never find it's way back in my welder. Now I just need a MUCH bigger tank and a LOT more practice.

That being said..... it looks like you have access to heavy duty stuff if you need it. If that's true and you're
l_bilyk said:
just looking for a cheap, general purpose consumer-oriented welder

then I'd opt for the 110v gas MIG from Miller/Hobart. If you're not going to use it more than once a year the Northern Tool/Harbor Freight stuff will probably suffice just fine.
Just my 2¢.
 

BarrelRoll

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I really like my miller matic 175 mig for what i do with it (4 wheel drive fab work). Welding 1/4" in a single pass is a breeze and it welds just about anything great. I usually run 75/25 gas and .035 solid core wire for fab work, if i was doing body work i'd probably use .025. After watching my buddy build a truck with a lincoln 110v mig i'd never want one. He had to double pass everything and it took him for ever becuase the duty cycle sucked, the 175 220v welder would have taken hours off of the project.
 

W-Cummins

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MXtras said:
True. But guys - I am here with almost three years of trying and spending money to tell you - if you want to weld AL thinner than about 3/8", go for TIG. Period. Yes - the spool guns are made for AL, but the MIG process doesn't like lower amperage AL welding.
Scott

Must be that Blue machine you have that's the source of the problems. The boat/ship building yards run THOUSANDS of miles of mig AL beads per year and 3/8" plate would be really large stuff for hull plate :) Ya better scrap that hard starting, spitting 251 and get over to the RED store and run a real AL mig rig :)
 

mikeyr

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I started out with a MIG because everyone one said its a steel glue machine and great for gluing steel together. It worked for many things but when I started needing some prettier welds on the frame or aluminium, I ended up buying a TIG. If you think you may need a tig someday, start there, don't waste your money on the mig and then get a tig like I did.

Now having said that, I do know people who are perfectly happy with their migs and will never need tig, think very seriously about what you need and what you might need in the future (as best as you can without a crystal ball anyway, if you have the crystal ball could you share the lottery numbers with me please). MIG may be fine for you forever, but think hard about what you might weld in the future, no need to spend your money twice.

I still have the mig, its great for welding up a BBQ or fire pit for the back yard, doing some steel fencing work around the house. But for the car, I tig only now.
 

BoostAddiction

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It's interesting to me to see that people are welding aluminum with MIG. We never did that, though perhaps that was because the shops where I worked tended to be (with one exception) places where weld quality and appearance was paramount. Spatter on anything was a Bad Thing and grinding welds was usually prohibited. I'm guessing you'd have both of those when using MIG on aluminum.

I guess I just assumed it wasn't done at all, and never bothered to look it up.

Having heard that it is possible (though apparently problematic), I still believe TIG is the process of choice when the highest quality welds are required, and where production speed is unimportant.

-Will
 

MXtras

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It's possible to weld a pretty AL weld without hardly any spatter using MIG but doing it for hours on end, or changing positions during a weld make it very, very difficult to maintain the conditions required. It's just entirely too picky. One of the biggest drawbacks for structural work using MIG is cold start. It does not matter if the material is pre-heated or not, the first portion of each weld is cold with poor penetration. The same is true with MIG on steel but it is just never discussed. It is an inherant problem with the MIG process.

I have successfully welded AL with MIG - it can be done under certain sircumstances and there are situations where it is definately the way to go - I do not disagree.

I, like many others, weld mostly structural - 6061 and 6063. Welding 5053 is a different animal and the 5000 series stuff welds a bit better, but the cold start, soot, spatter and inconsistency issues associated with MIG simply offer too much hassle to consider MIG for most situations where the type of welding varies - like in a home shop or a job shop.

Let's put it this way - I can guarantee a weld with TIG - first time, every time. I can join 1/2" to 1/8" without blowing out the 1/8" in a lap, **** or fillet configuration - first time, every time. You just can not do stuff like that with MIG without a few test runs to tweek your arc position, wire speed, amperage, voltage and speed. Then when switching between a lap and a **** joint with MIG - all of your settings are different. Too much of a PITA. Additionally - to those who say it is slow - BS. TIG is only as slow as the operator. It is easy to run a TIG bead nearly as quickly as a MIG. TIG is faster than MIG when you factor in spatter and soot removal for most conditions. A boat hull?? No. A dump body?? No. These are jobs that are suited for the properly set-up MIG process.

Now - MIG for higher amp situations is great, but for lower amperage work - as stated previously - 3/8" or less - do yourself and your wallet a favor and consider TIG. Yes - you can MIG 1/4" and even 1/8" but the consitency and appearance are not going to even be in the same zip code as a TIG weld. And you can forget a **** joint for the thinner stuff. A fillet weld on 1/4" is fine - but you still have spatter and a cold start which will eventually begin to fail.

If you want a pretty weld TIG is absolutely the way to go. When you are done with a TIG weld - you are done - no clean up, no cold start, no soot, no spatter and a LOT more control.

Sorry for the babble.


Scott
 

MXtras

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W-Cummins said:
...... The boat/ship building yards run THOUSANDS of miles of mig AL beads per year and 3/8" plate would be really large stuff for hull plate.

Not exactly accurate, but I get your point.

Scott
 

Rory Bellows

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I own a Hobart Handler 180. I have had it for about a year and half and am pleased with it's performance. I bought it basically because I got a great deal. $593.00 for it w/ auto dark helmet, cart, 20cf cylinder, gloves etc. It was a smoking deal I could not pass up. Now if I was to buy a similiar class machine today I would get the Lincoln 175 plus for the better arc control. Although at this point I am holding out for a TA 185 (tig). Don't buy a welder wearing blinders believing you will never want a bigger unit, YOU WILL! My advise would be for you to hold on to your money you have for the weld pak 3200 and purchase a 220 machine in a few months. You may even want a 200 amp welder like a MM 210. Or just go straight to the Thermal Arc 185 ($1700 to your door) and you can have access to different alloys easily plus the TA 185 is the sh*t!
 

W-Cummins

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MXtras said:
Not exactly accurate, but I get your point.

Scott
just so you don't think that I'm picken on your blue machine here is a picture of mine:)

I made the cabnet so I could store it in my carport and protect it and make it more secure
 

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ThreeBay

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I have a miller 115V and love it. Bought it online from Cyberweld and they were GREAT to deal with. I ordered online at midnight and it was at my house (via UPS) the morning after.
 
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