Well.... Torque Test Channel (TTC) does infact cover fit, and wear, and torque.
Maybe just give it a watch, they put out excellent reviews without a lot of fluff.
Eklind Is Closing Its IL Plant
- Thread starter CHI_Tool&Die
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Well.... Torque Test Channel (TTC) does infact cover fit, and wear, and torque.
Maybe just give it a watch, they put out excellent reviews without a lot of fluff.
four.cycle
Well-known member
I'll take your word for it - I don't need to watch the video.
My point being: feedback from members here (many of whom are real life, honest-to-God, 9-to-5 wrench turners) has a value which far exceeds that of a couple guys in a studio making a YouTube video.
Granted, there is an overwhelming amount of confirmation bias in the opinions of members here - which is to be expected. We are all human. It is our nature. We defend to the death our own choices. I'm okay with that.
But if we put the numbers up, it might paint a clearer picture.
Seriously: I do not know how to set up a "poll" on any of these "blog/discussion" websites. I've tried, and miserably failed.
So I am hoping that one of you will take it upon yourself to do it: Start a new thread, set up a poll, and let's tally the votes.
Put one up for hex keys.
Put one up for screwdrivers.
Let's see what the numbers are among the members here. Allow only ONE vote per person, if that's possible, so we don't have any "ballot stuffing" stuff.
I am genuinely interested to see what the outcome of such a "poll" would be.
Just those two: hex keys, screwdrivers.
Thanks.
My point being: feedback from members here (many of whom are real life, honest-to-God, 9-to-5 wrench turners) has a value which far exceeds that of a couple guys in a studio making a YouTube video.
Granted, there is an overwhelming amount of confirmation bias in the opinions of members here - which is to be expected. We are all human. It is our nature. We defend to the death our own choices. I'm okay with that.
But if we put the numbers up, it might paint a clearer picture.
Seriously: I do not know how to set up a "poll" on any of these "blog/discussion" websites. I've tried, and miserably failed.
So I am hoping that one of you will take it upon yourself to do it: Start a new thread, set up a poll, and let's tally the votes.
Put one up for hex keys.
Put one up for screwdrivers.
Let's see what the numbers are among the members here. Allow only ONE vote per person, if that's possible, so we don't have any "ballot stuffing" stuff.
I am genuinely interested to see what the outcome of such a "poll" would be.
Just those two: hex keys, screwdrivers.
Thanks.
Not dudes in a studio, in a shop, with testing equipment, with deep knowledge and research into most the tools they review.
You're doing yourself a injustice by not watching, these guys are, from what ive heard pro tool industry guys helping do R&D and design?
Just need to click that link, easier then setting up a poll
You never said what the specific poll subject should be??
Open your eyes and your mind.
The people doing those videos aren't "a couple guys in a studio making a YouTube video." They're engineers/designers for a major tool manufacturing company using repeatable scientific methods to test tools.
I'll take their empirical data over the opinion of some internet rando any day.
four.cycle
Well-known member
Point taken.
That said, having worked in the parts business for decades, and dealing directly with the men who turn wrenches for a paycheck, I tend to give a great deal of credence to those who are down there where the rubber meets the road - the guys who are getting their fingers greasy fighting with some stuck widget.
I've been on this site long enough now to know who the individuals are whose opinions are backed up with their experience, and those who just make noise.
Empirical data is all fine and well, but it doesn't always look at all the variables one might encounter when performing a task. A man who's been working with tools for two or three decades has worked on stuff your expert engineers in the lab may never encounter.
neophyte
Well-known member
You cab buy bulk packs of individually sized Bondhus keys.
RTM
Well-known member
So the same type of people who brought us the RoboGrip pliers that are so loved and hated?
NoahG
Well-known member
I was at Menards on Sunday and noticed the hex key section once previously dominated by Eklind is being restocked with Bondhus.
Ultradog MN
Well-known member
I rarely watch those uTube videos - and didn't watch this one. All the introductions, weather conditions in Orlando, gabbing away about some **** - maybe your sore frenulum, showing the cute shop cat,
the dog licking his ****, etc, etc makes a simple video 5 times longer than neccessary.
Introduce yourself, tell me what you are testing, or fixing, show me the torque wrench or pressure guage in action and let me watch the failure happen. But do it in 3 minutes instead of 15.
Not picking in TTC, Those type of comparison test (by anyone) always seem kind of worthless, due to their scope of testing.
They are almost always basically testing samples of a product, whether purchased, (or given by a vendor, in some cases). Some of these samples may perform better or worse, but does that seem indicative of 100% a Company's production, which due to reality might vary some? Maybe if they ran the test on dozens or hundreds of samples might come up with more concise results.
Buying something to test from Menard's might be a ****-shoot (no pun intended) and in tests where Vendors supply samples, It's not hard to imagine they cherry-pick through their inventory, for the best stuff.
msharley
Well-known member
Oh....you gotta Ford, too?
four.cycle
Well-known member
no... totally unrelated...
don't worry about it... not that big a deal and I perhaps shouldn't even have reacted to it and just allowed it to pass.
I had to go look at that post... Monday 11:40 am.... I didn't sleep all weekend, and I was getting a bit goofy. (just a bit.)
Things haven't been going as well as I would like lately... I'll endeavor to keep my lunacy in check.
Thanks.
don't worry about it... not that big a deal and I perhaps shouldn't even have reacted to it and just allowed it to pass.
I had to go look at that post... Monday 11:40 am.... I didn't sleep all weekend, and I was getting a bit goofy. (just a bit.)
Things haven't been going as well as I would like lately... I'll endeavor to keep my lunacy in check.
Thanks.
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Not to single you out, as I’ve seen this sentiment countless times, but I think this a false dichotomy - it doesn’t have to be either/or. The findings of TTC/Project Farm AND the reports of users are all useful data to be considered.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ precisely.
It's not a binary choice. They both have value.
Again, it's guys like YOU - gettin' your hands dirty every day - that I tend to pay closer attention to.
It's not a binary choice. They both have value.
Again, it's guys like YOU - gettin' your hands dirty every day - that I tend to pay closer attention to.
There is merit to both, I'll agree.
However, I'd imagine over 90% of the tool buying public has never heard of Eight Tool or PB Swiss tools, amongst others. Let's face it--we're outliers here.
If Joe at the corner garage has only ever used dollar store and Home Depot hex keys, he may have just accepted "all hex keys ****" not knowing what he's missing out on.
My decades of tool usage, including six years professionally, have demonstrated Bondhus hex keys work best for me. TTC's results paralleled my experience--great quality at a very reasonable price. While not the end-all-be-all, it's hard to discount TTC's testing methods.
four.cycle
Well-known member
^ exactly. and you're certainly not getting any argument from me on that point.
but again: the "anecdotal" stuff from guys like Hakeem, who's working with greasy nuts and bolts all day, should not be considered any less valid than your "lab rat" guys.
at that point we go back to the aforementioned "Robo-Grip".
the most salient point of your above post is the "90%", which is tragically all too true: it's scary what we don't know what we don't know.
And 90% of the buying public - not just "mechanics" - not just "backyarders" - but consumers overall - tend to have a somewhat myopic perspective about the options that are available. not just hex keys, but everything - from wrenches to pliers to kitchen knives to corkscrews.
but again: the "anecdotal" stuff from guys like Hakeem, who's working with greasy nuts and bolts all day, should not be considered any less valid than your "lab rat" guys.
at that point we go back to the aforementioned "Robo-Grip".
the most salient point of your above post is the "90%", which is tragically all too true: it's scary what we don't know what we don't know.
And 90% of the buying public - not just "mechanics" - not just "backyarders" - but consumers overall - tend to have a somewhat myopic perspective about the options that are available. not just hex keys, but everything - from wrenches to pliers to kitchen knives to corkscrews.
OP
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
One of the best things to come out of social media is the exposure a lot of lesser known brands get to the general public. If you can filter out the Amazon guys and the “rah rah ‘Murica” dudes you will find a ton of people talking about their experiences with various brands. It’s pretty neat.
Ultradog MN
Well-known member
You wrote the word America as if you had spit it out.
Reminds me of the colt that nurses from his mother then kicks her when she's dry.
Not picking in TTC, Those type of comparison test (by anyone) always seem kind of worthless, due to their scope of testing.
They are almost always basically testing samples of a product, whether purchased, (or given by a vendor, in some cases). Some of these samples may perform better or worse, but does that seem indicative of 100% a Company's production, which due to reality might vary some? Maybe if they ran the test on dozens or hundreds of samples might come up with more concise results.
Buying something to test from Menard's might be a ****-shoot (no pun intended) and in tests where Vendors supply samples, It's not hard to imagine they cherry-pick through their inventory, for the best stuff.
Wow... astonished
One click and 5 mins and you would have a actual informed opinion on the channel/reviewers based on the video recommended
Watching a tool video recommended by other tool folks is asking to much I guess?
Back to the original subject, Eklind still ***** and I'm not surprised they are out of business.
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Sorry, I like to do my own thinking.
I’m a huge fan of Harbor Freight stuff, but some of the videos where they “ beat”someone else’s (other than on price( I’m still skeptical not that it matters
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Ultradog MN
Well-known member
The last how-to video I watched on YT was on removing the driver's inside door panel on a 2018 Silverado pickup. There were a few of them to choose from.
A couple of them were 10-14 minutes long.
The one I watched was about 3 minutes long.
The guy said about 3 sentences, showed the tools he uses and just did it.
That's exactly what I wanted.
I have no beef with those who like to watch detailed or lengthly videos learning about stuff but as I said above I have no time for it and ... I am not in the market for any allen wrenches.
RalphInCA
Well-known member
Deleted
Back in the day, factory tool-rooms or auto parts/hardware stores didn't stock 4 different brands of everything, so people just used "whatever" and if it broke or wore out, they just replaced it with probably the same brand and moved on with life.
Seems like it was the Internet that got people obsessed with brands/brand loyalty and comparison testing is like crack, it seems.
if some you tube tester determines "Product "A" performed much better than product "B"", those that are fans of "product A" will cheer and feel good, while those that really like "product B" will think the test is maybe bogus.
We all know it's true.
Seems like it was the Internet that got people obsessed with brands/brand loyalty and comparison testing is like crack, it seems.
if some you tube tester determines "Product "A" performed much better than product "B"", those that are fans of "product A" will cheer and feel good, while those that really like "product B" will think the test is maybe bogus.
We all know it's true.
OP
CHI_Tool&Die
Well-known member
There is an entire subculture that uses ‘Murica to encapsulate the campy nature of unfettered patriotism. Like the dudes in mullets wearing star-spangled parachute pants while shot gunning a beer in the midst of a hurricane making landfall. It’s how they jam and it’s been a thing for years. I find it hilarious as do most people.
I, however, used ‘Murica in the context to describe another group of influencers that have decided that the country of origin is proof enough of superiority. I don’t subscribe to that position and find that it distracts from the merits of the tool.
Ultradog MN
Well-known member
neophyte
Well-known member
Even “back in the day” people had preferences about the tools they used.
Ergonomics can be determined somewhat quickly, but it’s also sort of personal to hand size, etc. so this might vary by person.
Tools wearing out quickly, breaking, slipping on bolts or in screws, etc. is highly noticeable, and if it happened frequently enough, whoever was in charge of sourcing tools would likely get told about the issues, probably repeatedly, and also have to keep replacing the tools.
A 5% increase or decrease in tool life would likely not be overly noticeable, and might even be within the margin of variance as far as the tool durability might go.
Over time though, the tools that lasted longer or worked better would still be hanging around after the failed tools had been tossed in the scrap bin, so it would start to become apparent who might make the better more durable tools.
If the tools are supplied by an employer though, then that usually decides what tools are used.
As for hex keys, I’ve used various brands, including some of the Bondhus fold up sets with the matte black ProGuard finish, for plumbing work, and put those fold up sets away wet, in a humid area, and not gotten rust, and this is one of the reasons I like the Bondhus keys, and tend to go with the brand.
The keys also fit perfectly, even in old work set screws, and I never had cam out issues.
The body of the fold up sets is plastic, but I find the shape way more ergonomic than traditional folded metal body fold up sets, and the cast metal bodied one I have from I forget who, and the overly engineered Wiha set I have.
The only Bondhus key I have broken is a ball tip screwdriver, in a small size, that was made before the ProGuard finish was used, so I have no clue how old the screwdriver was, or whether it even used the current steel alloy Bondhus now uses. (The “Protanium” steel alloy).