Hello , I installed an electric baseboard heater 3 years ago , worked well , today it caught on fire . Put fire out remove heater from wall . I immediately noticed that one of the black wires came out from the wire nut, I’m assuming this caused the fire. I’m confused on the wiring . Wires coming out of the wall are 2 blacks and 2 whites. Wires on the baseboard heater are only 2 , black and red. I had the black wire from heater to the 2 black wires on wall. And had the red wire from heater to the 2 white wires in the wall. Is that correct ? How come my heater does not have a white wire ? Why is it red ? I don’t have red coming out the wall . Like stated above coming out of the wall is 2 blacks and 2 whites . Can someone steer me in the right direction ? Thanks
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Electric baseboard heater caught on fire
- Thread starter 65 Falcon
- Start date
tncatadjuster
Well-known member
It woked for thee years, sounds like the connecion failed not the way it was wired. Or 220 wired wrong as 110?
Wires coming out of the wall are 2 blacks and 2 whites. Wires on the baseboard heater are only 2 , black and red. I had the black wire from heater to the 2 black wires on wall. And had the red wire from heater to the 2 white wires in the wall. Is that correct ? How come my heater does not have a white wire ? Why is it red ? I don’t have red coming out the wall . Like stated above coming out of the wall is 2 blacks and 2 whites . Can someone steer me in the right direction ? Thanks
Simple explanation, but do you have a multimeter?
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Voltage doesn't care about color. 240 volt circuits require two hot conductors and a ground. While the white wires should have been marked with any color other than white, gray, or green using tape, marker, or paint pen it didn't affect performance and two conductor romex is used for 240 volt all the time. I think every baseboard heater I've ever installed had two black wires, I didn't see red until the thermostat was wired in and that's probably what you were looking at and having two blacks and two whites coming from the wall means there is more than one thing on that circuit. A bad connection caused the melt down.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
If the NM in the wall is 2-cond, it will only have 1 black, 1 white and bare ground.
as said above, the white shouldve been taped or painted (with say a sharpie) black.
the heater has 2 blacks because it is most likely 240v, which doesnt need a white neutral
none of this affects the ability for it to run, or prevent a fire
to me it sounds like the splice developed a bad hi-resistant connection which resulted in fire.
I am curious why there are 4 conductors coming out of the wall instead of 2.... are there multiple heaters daisy chained on the same circuit?
as said above, the white shouldve been taped or painted (with say a sharpie) black.
the heater has 2 blacks because it is most likely 240v, which doesnt need a white neutral
none of this affects the ability for it to run, or prevent a fire
to me it sounds like the splice developed a bad hi-resistant connection which resulted in fire.
I am curious why there are 4 conductors coming out of the wall instead of 2.... are there multiple heaters daisy chained on the same circuit?
rooster59
Well-known member
What gauge are the wires? Maybe the classic “doubled 14 is the same as one 12”
Chuckster in NJ
Well-known member
Bad connection.
is there a wall thermostat , or another heater on that circuit?Wires coming out of the wall are 2 blacks and 2 whites
Yes there was another heater in the same living room that was removed years ago , I capped everything off , taped it , and stuffed it back into the wall . And yes I have a wall mounted t-stat . That now makes sense as to why there is 2 blacks and 2 whites coming out of the box (I forgot about the other heater I removed years ago). Also my baseboard heater that caught on fire has only 1 black and 1 red wire . I took the 1 black from the heater and spliced it to the 2 black wires coming out of wall and I took the red wire from heater and spliced it to the 2 white wires in the wall , and hooked up ground. Something tells me I did this wrong lol . I’m amazed it worked like a champ for 3 years . Thanks once againis there a wall thermostat , or another heater on that circuit?
I’m thinking the connection failed , when I opened up the heater I noticed 1 of the black wires fell out of the wire nut. I’m sure that’s what caused the fire . Also I’m amazed it worked like a champ for 3 years as I think the wiring was wrong . Out of the wall outlet there’s 2 blacks and 2 whites (there use to be another heater in the save room). And the new baseboard heater that caught fire only has 1 red and 1 black . I connected the 1 black (heater) to the 2 blacks in the wall outlet , and took the red (heater) and connected it to the 2 white wires in wall outlet. Sounds wrong but worked for 3 years. It seemed weird at the time taking a hot red wire and splicing to a neutral white . Is that normal ? lol . ThanksIt woked for thee years, sounds like the connecion failed not the way it was wired. Or 220 wired wrong as 110?
It seemed weird at the time taking a hot red wire and splicing to a neutral white . Is that normal ? lol . Thanks
I asked if you had a meter, you never answered.
As several others have pointed out, that white wire isn't necessarily a neutral.
Now put the tools down and call a pro.
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Yes I have a multimeter , how to proceed? I’m not sure how it worked for 3 years as I think I wired it wrong originally. Wall outlet has 2 blacks and 2 whites (there use to be another heater in the room). The new heater only had 1 black and 1 red. I connected the 1 black(heater) to the 2 blacks in the wall, and connected the 1 red (heater) to the 2 whites in the wall. I was surprised it worked at the time as spicing a hot red into a white neutral I thought was wrong , and still think it’s wrong lol . ThanksSimple explanation, but do you have a multimeter?
Thanks sparky . This baseboard heater had 1 red and 1 black . The wall outlet has 2 black and 2 white (there use to be another heater in the room ). I took the black wire (heater) connected it to the 2 blacks in the wall outlet, and took the red wire (heater) and connected it to the 2 whites in the wall. Does not sound right at all but it worked like a champ for 3 years). My T -stat is wall mounted also in the same room. ThanksVoltage doesn't care about color. 240 volt circuits require two hot conductors and a ground. While the white wires should have been marked with any color other than white, gray, or green using tape, marker, or paint pen it didn't affect performance and two conductor romex is used for 240 volt all the time. I think every baseboard heater I've ever installed had two black wires, I didn't see red until the thermostat was wired in and that's probably what you were looking at and having two blacks and two whites coming from the wall means there is more than one thing on that circuit. A bad connection caused the melt down.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Yes. The power will go to the stat and from there, one cable with a black and white goes to the first heater, the other cable with black and white will go to the other. The white wire is taking the place of a red. White to ground is 120, black to ground is 120, and white to black is 240. You should probably figure out which cable goes to the abandoned heater and leave it disconnected, unless it's in a junction box and both wires are capped off.Thanks sparky . This baseboard heater had 1 red and 1 black . The wall outlet has 2 black and 2 white (there use to be another heater in the room ). I took the black wire (heater) connected it to the 2 blacks in the wall outlet, and took the red wire (heater) and connected it to the 2 whites in the wall. Does not sound right at all but it worked like a champ for 3 years). My T -stat is wall mounted also in the same room. Thanks
Yes I have a multimeter , how to proceed?
I assume you can tell each "set" of black and white wires apart?
Do you have 240v between black 1 and white 1, or 120v?
What do you measure on black 2/white 2?
Metal-Marc
Well-known member
That's usually the correct answer.Now put the tools down and call a pro.
Hey thanks , I’m a novice at electrical work other than wiring basic light fixtures around the house. Yes 2 blacks and 2 whites coming out of wall , using a Klein voltage tester 1 white wire lights up as hot/live , the other white nothing , and nothing from the 2 blacks. I think something deeper is going on and that little fire damaged the wires . I’m thinking that 2 wires should light up , not just the 1 . I’m gunna have to call an electrician I think. Thanks for your time
Hey thanks , I’m a novice at electrical work other than wiring basic light fixtures around the house. Yes 2 blacks and 2 whites coming out of wall , using a Klein voltage tester 1 white wire lights up as hot/live , the other white nothing , and nothing from the 2 blacks.
That's not a multimeter and isn't a reliable test method here.
I think something deeper is going on and that little fire damaged the wires . I’m thinking that 2 wires should light up , not just the 1 . I’m gunna have to call an electrician I think. Thanks for your time
Sounds like a good idea.
sparky 1971
Well-known member
Get a voltage meter, even a cheapie from Harbor Freight, a box store, or ScAmazon will do.Hey thanks , I’m a novice at electrical work other than wiring basic light fixtures around the house. Yes 2 blacks and 2 whites coming out of wall , using a Klein voltage tester 1 white wire lights up as hot/live
Separate the wires before you test anything. Now, with the thermostat off, check the voltage with a meter. You shouldn't have anything, but it's possible that you have voltage (120) to ground on one wire. (the white wire you mentioned was thing only thing hot in the above post). Now, turn the stat on until you hear it click. You should have 120 to ground on one black and one white and 240 between those two wires. The other two wires go to the heater that was taken out, you don't need them so tape them off and shove them back in the wall. If I'm right and you have voltage to one wire with the stat off and two wires with it on, you have a single pole thermostat or it's a two pole and is junk. The heater will work fine with a single pole T-stat, but there is potential to get knocked on you **** when messing around with the heater thinking that it's off because the stat says so, which means make sure the breaker is off. You should probably put in a two pole thermostat.the other white nothing , and nothing from the 2 blacks. I think something deeper is going on and that little fire damaged the wires . I’m thinking that 2 wires should light up , not just the 1 . I’m gunna have to call an electrician I think. Thanks for your time
All those pen lights are for is checking to see if there is potential for a shock present. I use one, even sometimes for things I shouldn't, but always have a real meter within a few feet of me.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
a NCV tester is the wrong tool to use here. inductive current will give false readings. go grab a volt meter (multimeter) and give us the reading between each set of black/white wires, black to black, and white to white.... if there is a ground wire, also measure between each black and ground and each white and ground. theres no telling what someone may have done hereusing a Klein voltage tester 1 white wire lights up as hot/live , the other white nothing , and nothing from the 2 blacks.