Electric Buffers

[Moose-LandTran]

We recently had much of our family wagon repainted to repair small scuff and stone chips. Now i can see in the sunlight swirls and marks in the paint that need a decent once-over with an electric buffer. I've bought myself some 3M Finesse-it and Perfect-it to do this, and also some 3M ploishing pads.

Only issue left is the buffer itself. I don't want something cheap, i want something that'll last me and something i can make my money back from.

This is what i have in mind, a Makita 9227CB 180mm 1200watt variable-speed buffer.

http://www.tooled-up.com/Product.as...cb-1200w-180mm-Sander-Polisher-Var-Speed-240v

Any ideas? I've never bought a polisher/buffer before, so don't know so much of what to look for.

Thanks guys,
Moose.

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

The Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher is the standard in the car detailing world.

 

[billymade]

Dewalt DW849
http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=174
http://www.google.com/products?q=DW849&btnG=Search+Products&show=dd

 

[ZRX61]

If you've never done it before get a scrap panel from a salvage yard & practice on that before attacking your own vehicle. Make damn sure you tie the panel down, my Dewalt buffer can throw a fender at least 20 feet....

Varible speed is your friend, I use em between 1200 & 1800rpm. The Makita is popular, the front handle is nicer than the Dewalt.

Most people just make it worse than it was & leave swirls all over. If you have the patience the PorterCable DA thingie will produce a good finish.


& the pads/bonnets etc they come with are usualy cheap ****..

I have this:
https://www.autobodytoolmart.com/p-11964-14689.aspx

& a PC 7424

 

[dps]

You want electronic speed control, which the Makita has. But as a former pro at this, I would strongly recommend a D/A such as the Porter Cable mentioned above over a rotary. The rotary has speed, which is great for sanding and rough (paint) cutting. But for rubbing, and especially polishing, the D/A will give better results for any non-experienced operator.

 

[T56 Impala]

PC 7336 or 7224 (same unit, one is a "polisher" the other a "sander"). Its a RO unit and works great. Ditch the 3M pads and get some Lake County waffle pads. Much better IMO. Last longer, clean better, work better and less cast off. Unless you are VERY good, stay away from the rotary buffers. You will kill that new paint unless you know what you are doing.

I like the finesse-it. Its a great product. You should look into the Klass line too. They make some great stuff. My details go like this:

Quality car wash. 2 buckets, one for the top and one for the lower section.

Clay. I prefer Meguiars but there are a lot of good ones on the market.

Finesse-it. Small sections at a time.

Klass AIO. Great cleaner and comes off easily.

Klass Sealer, 3 coats 24 hrs apart. Do not let this dry. It has a cure time not a dry time. Put it on with one had while wiping it off with the other hand. IF it does dry, you will need a 50/50 solution of water and alcohol to get it off. Don't worry, that mixture will not hurt the paint or remove the sealer.

Wax..... PS21 or S100. S100 is the exact same as the PS 21 only you can buy it at your local Harley dealer. Again, no dry time only cure time with this. 3 coats a few hours apart. If it dries, it does wipe off like other waxes.

Many people prefer the Zaino products. They too do a great job. They tend to give a car a "plastic" look to me. In other words, its a top shine not a deep shine like non-synthetic systems.

This is a huge can of worms if you really want to get deep into it.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

If you've never done it before get a scrap panel from a salvage yard & practice on that before attacking your own vehicle.

Ok, luckily i work in a workshop full of wrecked Golfs, so there'll be something to practice on before i attack my own.

Make damn sure you tie the panel down, my Dewalt buffer can throw a fender at least 20 feet....

Yikes, i think i'll leave the panel stuck on the car i practice on!

Varible speed is your friend, I use em between 1200 & 1800rpm. The Makita is popular, the front handle is nicer than the Dewalt.

I did wonder about the side handle. I like the idea of the top handle because it's right above the spindle, seems it'd make control easier as it's always flat to the surface, where with a grinder a side handle is easy because you're using it at all kinds of angles.

Most people just make it worse than it was & leave swirls all over. If you have the patience the PorterCable DA thingie will produce a good finish.

We don't get PorterCable over here, so i'm stuck with a rotary.

& the pads/bonnets etc they come with are usualy cheap ****..

I'm buying some 3M ones for this, i want to do the job properly and the stuff will get used on my mum's Jaguar (her pride & joy) and probably a few of the neighbour's and friend's cars too!

Thanks for all the help guys, it's really appreciated

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

The rotary is extremely hard to use correctly and will damage paint in a hurry in the wrong hands. Not to discourage you but I would really try and find a DA (dual-action) polisher.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

The rotary is extremely hard to use correctly and will damage paint in a hurry in the wrong hands. Not to discourage you but I would really try and find a DA (dual-action) polisher.

I see, well i don't want to damage it. we've just spent a few hundred having the bodywork cleaned up and the paint resprayed. To be honest i'm a little pissed that the bodyshop didn't polish it right themselves and now it's up to me to do it properly.

http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/polis...uiars-g220-dual-action-polisher/prod_409.html

What do you think about this? It's a dual action, it's cheaper than the Makita and it's Meguirars, so i figure that Meguiars should know what they're doing when it comes to this.

Thanks again guys.

 

[heelsroll]

Ok, luckily i work in a workshop full of wrecked Golfs, so there'll be something to practice on before i attack my own.
Thanks for all the help guys, it's really appreciated

If you want to see this ad nauseum, I mean, really ad nauseum, the Ferrari fora are full of thousand-post discussions. For a cleaner treatment:

Machine Polishing by Dual Action Polisher - Full Guide

I have both the Porter Cable and Dewalt, but I do not have enough experience with the DeWalt to comment. The PC helped me take a _very_ oxidized single-stage paint and do this:

(See the roof for what the paint looked like before treatment.)

I did this one by hand, it was heavily oxidized clearcoat:

Once you get started, it's hard to look at an old car again without thinking how nice it would look with a little buffing out.

Good luck with it!
Joel

 

[OctaneMotorsports]

I believe the G220 is a re-labeled Porter Cable 7424 DA...one of Meguiar's DA's is, anyway. G100 or 110 comes to mind...I'm not sure which one it is.

 

[T56 Impala]

The G220 is a PC 7424/7336 rebadged with the handle on top and not on the side. It looks like what were are suggesting.

 

[Theo]

Do yourself a huge favor and don't use a rotary buffer. The Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher is available online and will make short work of your project, and save you from ruining your paint.

 

[48548]

I have a crazy idea, because I am looking at buffers also and wonder what you think of this one? They used to sell the porter cable, but not sell this one of there own brand, not sure who makes it. Also I think they use special pads or something to reduce heat and make sure that even with all of your weight on it and in the same spot, it will never burn a hole in the paint, now do I belive this? Here is the link.

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product...ishing+tools/griot's+garage+random+orbital.do

 

[Stanger]

Be smart and a rotary is fine. RO's take forever to correct. I bought an Ultimate Detailing Machine(UDM) RO and it is more powerful than a PC but still has very little corrective ability. Buy the Makita. Practice a little and you'll be fine. Too many people are scared of the rotary. I only use German Menzerna polishes, but I'm sure the 3M will be fine. LC 6.5" CCS pads are what you want. Check out Autopia.org. ALL of your questions will be answered by searching on their forum. The Makita 9227 is the preferred rotary polisher by almost all professionals. I love mine.
Check out both of these sites:

Autopia
Autogeek

 

[eschoendorff]

The Porter Cable 7424 Dual Action Polisher is the standard in the car detailing world.

/thread.

 

[JayL]

I always wanted Porter Cable & Milwaukee electric products. However I have an issue with voltage since here where I live the standard is 220 Volts.

We have the Makita Polisher which is the model that Moose posted and in 220 volts. We are very very happy with it.

 

[Moose-LandTran]

Be smart and a rotary is fine. RO's take forever to correct. I bought an Ultimate Detailing Machine(UDM) RO and it is more powerful than a PC but still has very little corrective ability. Buy the Makita. Practice a little and you'll be fine. Too many people are scared of the rotary. I only use German Menzerna polishes, but I'm sure the 3M will be fine. LC 6.5" CCS pads are what you want. Check out Autopia.org. ALL of your questions will be answered by searching on their forum. The Makita 9227 is the preferred rotary polisher by almost all professionals. I love mine.

Well, that makes sense. I want to do some practice first whatever machine i buy. And i've been told that this Makita is the machine to get.

This is what i'll be using to practice on, i don't think anyone'll get upset if it goes wrong.

What do think, guys? will it polish out?

 

[T56 Impala]

I don't find that "it takes forever to correct" with the PC. Sure, I could do it quicker with a rotary, but why risk it. So I have do the are 2 or 3 times. No big deal for me. I also need to make sure I'm using the correct compound for the defect. Again, not a big deal.

I have done many high end exotics for private clients I have. All but one insisted that I never touch their paint with a rotary buffer. The other one just wanted a nice looking car. She didn't know thing about proper detailing. It *was* the worst looking Aston I ever saw in person. Now, its not the worst! Not the best either as it was never really properly cared for.

It take years to master a rotary. For the first timer or novice, a DA is the only way to go. Remember, you had a shop, who should know what they are doing, hit the paint with a rotary. It is obviously damaged. Even someone in the know can massacre paint with a rotary.

 

[Stanger]

What do think, guys? will it polish out?

Yea, you might want to spend some extra time on the quarter panel though.

On a more serious note, I like to vary my speeds on the Makita depending on which polish/pad I'm using. I start out with a heavier cutting polish, Menzerna SIP, at 600 rpms on an orange foam pad. Then I move to a lighter polish, Menzerna Micro Polish, on a white foam pad at 1500 rpms. Finally, I move back down to 600 rpms with a foam finishing pad and Menz Micro Polish again. Works well for me and I don't get many holograms. If I do, I just do the final step on that area again. Don't forget, ALWAYS work under halogen work lamps and ALWAYS check your work in the sun. Scratches and defects show up well under halogens but holograms can remain hidden. Only the sun will reveal polishing holograms. Use an alcohol/water wipedown to remove any oils from the polishes. They can hid defects. Good luck and have fun! Rotaries are not that scary. I started using one when I was 16 and have never burned paint(knock on wood). Granted that is only 3 years polishing, but it was my first three years, the time when I would be more likely to screw up.

EDIT: Just saw your post T56. How do you make any money detailing with a PC? ALL of the best detailers I know use rotaries. Paul Dalton? Makita rotary. He details the most expensive vehicles in the world and gets insane amounts of money for them. I have a PC but it just wasn't efficient or feasible for me to make money with it. There are many defects that a PC simply will not remove, especially in hard clears like Mercedes and GM.

 

[T56 Impala]

I don't make money!!!!

Actually I do but I'm not in it for the money. I detail about 1 car a month. Most of the people I do this for are either friends, car club buddies or friends of friends. I do it for the fun. I'm retired so I need something to keep me busy.

FWIW, I like your choice of product. Menzerna is very good stuff. It takes me about 4 days to do a complete job. That includes Letherique on the interior. Most of the cars I work on are garage queens anyway. Most are Ferrari with a few Alpina, AMG and Astons mixed in. I have only ever done 1 Porsche. (959) Next time I have one over, I pop a few shots of it before and after.

Its not like there is much correction that needs to be done on these cars. Maybe a few small scratches from a dirty cover or maybe someone sat something on the hood or trunk. Mine on the other hand.... well..... it is a daily driver! When I fist got my 328 GTB, it needed a LOT of work. There were deep scratches and lots of halo's and swirls. I spent many hours getting it right. I hated to sell it, but I just didn't have time for it. Now that the kid are a bit more independent I wish I had it back.

Doing other's cars keeps me in touch with the car world. Again, I don't charge but I always get paid.

 

[eschoendorff]

I don't make money!!!!

Actually I do but I'm not in it for the money. I detail about 1 car a month. Most of the people I do this for are either friends, car club buddies or friends of friends. I do it for the fun. I'm retired so I need something to keep me busy.

FWIW, I like your choice of product. Menzerna is very good stuff. It takes me about 4 days to do a complete job. That includes Letherique on the interior. Most of the cars I work on are garage queens anyway. Most are Ferrari with a few Alpina, AMG and Astons mixed in. I have only ever done 1 Porsche. (959) Next time I have one over, I pop a few shots of it before and after.

Its not like there is much correction that needs to be done on these cars. Maybe a few small scratches from a dirty cover or maybe someone sat something on the hood or trunk. Mine on the other hand.... well..... it is a daily driver! When I fist got my 328 GTB, it needed a LOT of work. There were deep scratches and lots of halo's and swirls. I spent many hours getting it right. I hated to sell it, but I just didn't have time for it. Now that the kid are a bit more independent I wish I had it back.

Doing other's cars keeps me in touch with the car world. Again, I don't charge but I always get paid.

Damn, if you were any closer, I'd beg you to take a look at my tired old Vette... I'm pretty sure the finish was never taken care of properly, and I'm too much of a wuss to fck it up by polishing it. The only way I'd ever try is with the afore-mentioned PC, but I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing (read: plenty of experience) make it look pretty again...

 

[Jokeman]

Damn, if you were any closer, I'd beg you to take a look at my tired old Vette... I'm pretty sure the finish was never taken care of properly, and I'm too much of a wuss to fck it up by polishing it. The only way I'd ever try is with the afore-mentioned PC, but I'd rather have someone who knows what they're doing (read: plenty of experience) make it look pretty again...

Esc...is your Vette a single stage paint? If it is I'd suggest purchasing some Meguiars #80. The oils in it will bring the paint right back to life. If you have a PC, grab some 80 and you will be all set.

 

[eschoendorff]

Esc...is your Vette a single stage paint? If it is I'd suggest purchasing some Meguiars #80. The oils in it will bring the paint right back to life. If you have a PC, grab some 80 and you will be all set.

I dunno... it is a 1993 with the ruby red pain/clear. That's really all I know about the finish....

 

[Stanger]

Eschoendroff, I know a pretty good detailer in Michigan. What part are you in? He is a PC user though so he probably wouldn't be able to get ALL the defects out. Most people would never see those few that are left behind though. He is pretty reasonable too IIRC. Just PM me if you would like to be in contact with him. I'd do your car but your just too far.

T56, I see, just a hobby. I was OK with the PC/UDM when I was doing it for a hobby too. Then I started detailing for money and people want their car fast. Also, when you start detailing for money, you get more abused cars that need more correction. So, a lot of correction done fast requires a rotary. I easily get by with my UDM on my dad's '68 Mustang since shes a garage queen. But a Chevy truck driven daily? The tough GM clear just laughs at me.

 

[48548]

Okay so back to the buffer, I am going to order one this weekend and really want to know what people think of this one as I posted it earlier and never heard much... Under the specs it says this

"The Griot's Garage Random Orbital has a powerful 750W motor, spins at higher orbits per minute, has a smaller polishing pattern, a rheostat speed dial for polishing and waxing speeds between 4,000 and 7,000 orbits per minute, an internal fan to cool off the backing plate (thus, no heat build-up in our pad, or on your paint), a higher torque motor to eliminate stalling, an ergonomic top handle, and an easy-to-reach side on/off switch, plus your hands will enjoy much less vibration from the orbital! Enjoy the best!"

So they question is would I do good getting it and not having an experience using one, would it work well? Also they show them being used on expensive cars and rare vehicles. Thanks for all of your advice, I really appreciate this site!!!!

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product...ishing+tools/griot's+garage+random+orbital.do

 

[billymade]

If you don't know what you are doing; many times its worth it to just take it to a pro detailer; have them cut/buff the paint. Then when the paint is at a good level, you can just maintain the finish and do the interior yourself!

 

[T56 Impala]

The Griots used to be a re badged PC unit. I'm not sure about this one however. It looks like a decent unit though I have never used one or even seen one in real life. The price is comparable to the PC.

Before you buy, take a look at autogeek.net. They sell PC packages and it might just save you some money in the long run. http://www.autogeek.net/po.html will show you the packages. When you start adding things up like pads and polishes along with the cost of the unit its self, you can run up a bill quickly.

 

[48548]

Exactly that is why I was actually thinking of buying this kit and the dvd they sell to help teach me a little, or a lot, hahaha. I will look at the site, thanks, and do you think the fan thing to keep that pad cool is a gimic or something worth having? Here is the link of the kit I was looking at. I have used there stuff in the past and it all works fine and works great, I am not saying there isn't better out there, but I don't have to worry if there stuff works or not because everything I have gotten has worked great. Also is the handle better on this unit than the pc?

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product/car+care/car+care+kits/6"+orbital+bag+kit.do

 

[ZRX61]

The Griots used to be a re badged PC unit. I'm not sure about this one however. It looks like a decent unit though I have never used one or even seen one in real life. The price is comparable to the PC.

Looks like a Metabo piece?

 

[ZRX61]

Just looked here:
http://www.autogeek.net/metabo-complete-kit.html

& discovered Metabo have changed their design, maybe Griot got all the old ones..

 

[Stanger]

do you think the fan thing to keep that pad cool is a gimic or something worth having?

Gimmick. The polishes are supposed to be heated up to break down and cut properly. That is already one of the problems with the RO, it takes too long to break the polishes down due to the lack of heat. If you want something between a RO and a rotary, check out the Flex 3401.
Flex XC 3401
It is the most powerful correcting tool you can buy that is still foolproof in terms of safety. Its still no rotary but it is much more powerful than the PC/UDM/Griots.

 

[eschoendorff]

Gimmick. The polishes are supposed to be heated up to break down and cut properly. That is already one of the problems with the RO, it takes too long to break the polishes down due to the lack of heat. If you want something between a RO and a rotary, check out the Flex 3401.
Flex XC 3401
It is the most powerful correcting tool you can buy that is still foolproof in terms of safety. Its still no rotary but it is much more powerful than the PC/UDM/Griots.

Wow... that thing is expensive, but made in Germany...

If I had money, I'd try one.

 

[48548]

and a 1 year warranty.... I can't afford that, I am either going with the PC 7424 or the griots unit as the griots does come with with a lifetime warranty and if I can save money, I can spend the savings on a snap on fcf936, sddd101, ssdmrt1r and last but not least an adcf8!!!!!

 

[wythors]

Okay so back to the buffer, I am going to order one this weekend and really want to know what people think of this one as I posted it earlier and never heard much... Under the specs it says this

"The Griot's Garage Random Orbital has a powerful 750W motor, spins at higher orbits per minute, has a smaller polishing pattern, a rheostat speed dial for polishing and waxing speeds between 4,000 and 7,000 orbits per minute, an internal fan to cool off the backing plate (thus, no heat build-up in our pad, or on your paint), a higher torque motor to eliminate stalling, an ergonomic top handle, and an easy-to-reach side on/off switch, plus your hands will enjoy much less vibration from the orbital! Enjoy the best!"

So they question is would I do good getting it and not having an experience using one, would it work well? Also they show them being used on expensive cars and rare vehicles. Thanks for all of your advice, I really appreciate this site!!!!

http://www.griotsgarage.com/product...ishing+tools/griot's+garage+random+orbital.do

I am a huge Griot's fan and own the Porter Cable they used to sell. It is a fine product and I've acheived excellent results with it. That said, their new unit is made in China, has a plastic case and weighs about half of the PC. It doesn't feel very well-made at all. I'm lucky in that Griot's home office is within driving distance and I can touch the stuff before I buy it. They also offer free detailing clinics that have been very informative.

 

[48548]

I ordered the Griots garage model, it was a 6 amp motor and 7000 opm at the highest speed... I have 6 months and if I don't like it I get my money back, and the lifetime warranty.... I bought a kit from them, but I looked up a lot of reviews and I asked them why they stopped selling the portercable, he said when someone else starting making them they couldn't provide the changes they wanted with the quantity... It might be cheap but with the lifetime warranty and 6 month return, I am going to give it a beating and go from there... I will let you know what I think when I get it. Thanks for all of your help, also thanks t56 you really helped me to decide.

 

[Tim G]

Check out autobodystore.com,in the classroom section {I think} is a pretty good how to movie on buffing

 

[Stanger]

The Griots should serve you well. If you get really serious about detailing you may get frustrated with it but if you don't detail *that* often, you'll love it.

 

[48548]

exactly this is something to try and learn and down the road I am might look at a non ro buffer if I feel it is something I want to do more.... As for this and the porter cable, I don't feel it was a loss either way about the same, except I get the warranty and I can send it back by dec if I don't like it. I will look at the site, thanks for everyone's help. Unfortunatly snapon didn't make one or the choice would have been easier!!!!!

 

[hotrod66paul]

Before buying a rotary or a orbital buffer , do yourself a favor and visit some of the many detailing forums online. This topic is discussed often and there isn't a question that you have that couldn't be answered. Just a few of the ones to try are www.autopia.org , autogeek.net and meguiarsonline.com