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Electric Car Outlets

Apex Structures

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This outlet is marketed as being able to charge 2X faster than the other ones. Does anyone know about electric cars & charging them ? Most experts are saying they will be as popular has hybrid's are today in the next 10 years ?


Outlet: NEMA 14-50 240v

Thank you,

Josh
 
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Tim65GT

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A NEMA 14-50 240v is what I installed for my RV. Thousands of them all over the country in RV parks.

Cooper_Wiring_Devices_Nema_14-50_5754N.jpg


Home Depot carries this for out door use:

18eafc5b-2e0c-4be0-acb4-f83a83187916_400.jpg
 

kd3pc

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The outlet has little to do with what the marketing weanies come up with. Of course a 240v 30, 40, 50 Amp outlet can provide twice the current/voltage as a 110v, 15 amp outlet.

Capable outlets have been around for years.
 
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Apex Structures

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I think my customers are getting this information somewhere online when reading about electric cars. So the car companies must be pushing or "Marketing" this outlet. I know very little about them, but it's good to know they are plugged in like an RV would. I think this is great idea to consider when building a new garage so you are ready if you plan on trading in your hybrid.

The garage is also designed to have a 40 degree slope on the front roof facing south for optimal solar gain, so we are in process of putting together the electrical design.

Good Stuff,

Thank you.
 

ravedave

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I installed a 40a, 220v circuit and an EVSE to charge my Nissan Leaf at 6.6kw. The fastest you can charge the vehicle currently without 400v DC CHAdeMO available. It charges our leaf from close to empty to full in about 4 hours overnight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHAdeMO

I used a DIY kit from http://www.emotorwerks.com.
EVSE is the "Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment" that connects the vehicle to the home electricity. It is commonly and incorrectly called the "charger". All hybrids and EV's, to my knowledge, have the charger built into the vehicle.
The EVSE connects the mains to the vehicle through a J1722 SAE (Tesla is different, but can use an adapter) standard cable.
All the EVSE does is tell the vehicle that it is plugged in, ready to charge at 110v or 220v and what amperage the vehicle can draw for charging. It also has a GFCI and disconnect relay for safety reasons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station

Just installing the NEMA 40a outlet is usually not sufficient as to charge at that voltage, 40A (8kw), you need the EVSE in the circuit. Most vehicles only have a 15-20a 110v portable EVSE "charger" in the trunk for emergencys (24 hour charge time). Usually no one will carry a 220v, 40A EVSE "charger" with them in the vehicle.

The best option is to install the circuit, 40a, 220v, and have it ready for a welder, etc with the option to convert it to an EV station in the future.

The Leaf has been great. I have leased it for 9 months now and have no complaints. I traded in a 97 pathfinder that got 18mpg. It gets about 100 miles a charge and we have never had any issues with the range. It is not our only vehicle though. My wife commutes in it daily and we use it on weekends and evenings.
I went through all our gas receipts for 6 month prior to getting the Leaf. My wife was commuting in our 2004 Honda Element and spending 240-300$ month in gas. The lease payment on the Leaf is less that the monthly fuel bill for the Element.
I'm in Las Vegas and NV Energy has a discounted rate for EV charging after 10pm. (car has a charge timer).
I have actually seen our power bill lower because the whole house receives this rate from 10pm to 8am. Just charging the vehicle is about 15$/month. All the casinos have free charging too! If we use most of the charge, we can top it up pretty quickly at a charger. 0-80% battery charging is about a mile/minute. Usually a quick stop at home with a top up charge after the morning out hiking or rock climbing and driving 60 miles is all we need.

Dave
 
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ravedave

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Also, it's great only going to the gas station about once a month now (I work from home). It used to be every 4-5 days!
 

Want2race

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I also have the juice box by EMW.

I modified mine so it only charges if power is cheap per my utility company.

I like it a lot. It's been a fun toy
 

58Yeoman

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I saw a charging station in someone's garage a couple weeks ago while hitting the garage sales, but I didn't ask the kid how well it worked for him. His elec car was out in front.

There is a McD's on Knoxville Ave in Peoria that has two charging stations in their parking lot, marked elec cars only. How much of a charge could you get if you were to be in there for say, 20 or 30 minutes? Would it be worth it?
 

malibu101

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There is a McD's on Knoxville Ave in Peoria that has two charging stations in their parking lot, marked elec cars only. How much of a charge could you get if you were to be in there for say, 20 or 30 minutes? Would it be worth it?

At a rest stop on a highway last week I saw electric car parking only spaces next to the handicapped spaces and there were outlets there.
I did not look what configuration the outlets were but I too wondered how much charge you would gain in the short amount of time while eating at a rest stop.
Maybe if you're out of charge and it's the only thing available, you gotta wait it out. :dunno:
 

BeachBoy

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You don't get that much charge at those chargers so unless they are free, many EV owners don't use them.

Tesla's supercharger network is a different story.
 

gte718p

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charging_station

Just installing the NEMA 40a outlet is usually not sufficient as to charge at that voltage, 40A (8kw), you need the EVSE in the circuit. Most vehicles only have a 15-20a 110v portable EVSE "charger" in the trunk for emergencys (24 hour charge time). Usually no one will carry a 220v, 40A EVSE "charger" with them in the vehicle.

Actually must of us who do conversions have the 240v charger installed. I mainly use Manzanita chargers. The NEMA 14-50 240v is a favorite.
 

Jawn

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I was seriously considering a Leaf a while back. I found some compatible chargers that used a NEMA 6-50 outlet (same as a welder).

Ended up not doing it, my round trip commute distance is right near the edge of its range, and I figure the battery might degrade a little over the duration of the lease and leave me coming up short on range.
 

KPSquared

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Sometimes I wish I wasn't so far out in the sticks. I'm fascinated by this whole electric car thing. My buddy just bought an electric dirt bike... Maybe that's what I'll do.
 

Jawn

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Do you guys run them just to try them or is it kind of a hobby? I can't find anywhere that shows you save any money in the long run

Is electricity so high near you?

Around here, there's a state tax credit that will pay for almost all of a 2 year lease on a Leaf. So you pay for insurance and electricity to recharge, and it's like a free new car that is stupid cheap to run and allows you to use HOV/express lanes for free, even when you're alone.
 
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volleyball

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Diesels and electrics make more sense where it doesn't get so cold and slippery in passenger vehicles.
With the aging population, an outlet in the driveway could serve a commuter vehicle or a RV
 

gte718p

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Do you guys run them just to try them or is it kind of a hobby? I can't find anywhere that shows you save any money in the long run

I build EV as a hobby. For what I build its a wash, if you count my time it is a huge lose. However, depending on were you live/how much you pay for electricity you can come out way ahead.
 

KPSquared

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I was just surfing looking for places that compare charging costs vs fuel costs vs costs of ownership and it seems like it's more money over, say, 5 years to buy an electric car. There's no credits here... This is oil country. No solar credits either. I guess they see it as an insult to what fuels our entire economy....

I'm still fascinated by the whole industry. Until it made financial sense, I could never pull the trigger. Very cool though!
 

Jawn

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Not sure I'd "buy" one given the cost of replacement batteries, but a lease gets you out of that. About the only time I'd prefer a lease over buying.
 

KPSquared

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I guess if you're a lease type of person, but I'm all about $/mile... If you're swapping out a lease every 2 years that number goes WAY up vs buying a gas job for cash and driving it for 10 years.
 

Want2race

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GA had a great deal which is why I got one.

$7500 in federal rebate
$5000 in state.

Use that on a lease as cap cost reduction and it's almost $50 a month. Hard to beat!!
 

volleyball

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The down side of driving an electric vehicle is that you have to drive an electric vehicle. With all of its limitations and costs.
there are lots of high mileage vehicles out there. Are you willing to drive one? And how much are you really saving? Over the long haul?
I've shown how my V8 truck is cheaper and better for the environment than any electric or hybrid for me. But that is not the case for everyone.
 

LS6 Tommy

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I have nothing against EVs, hybrids or other alternative fuel vehicles. I do have a little bit of an issue with the brainwashed owners that think EVs are the answer to pollution, fossil fuel usage and "carbon footprint" reduction. That being said, I do NOT put all EV owners into that box. Our town is going to put a public charging station in one of the parking lots. A cool thing indeed. I'm just curious to know who is paying for it when someone plugs in. I can just see people fighting over who has used it for how long, who gets it next or even wanting to park there overnight to "fill up".

Tommy
 
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BeachBoy

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Do you guys run them just to try them or is it kind of a hobby? I can't find anywhere that shows you save any money in the long run
I do 60 miles one way.

Next gen Volt is 50 miles range. Rest at 40mpg.

No mathematics will make it more affordable to buy a gas or diesel car. As I will only use gas for 10 miles each way. Free charge at work, cheap charge at home.

I would not buy a full electric car unless its a Tesla. And even then, I would not have an electric only stable. My truck is too useful for that.
 

KPSquared

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So your company pays to charge your car? The only way that would fly here is if they provided the equivalent value in gas to those without electric cars... I feel like a lot of EV owners are planning to just leech power wherever they can. Sure you can save money by letting someone else pay to charge your car.

What's the MSRP on the Volt? How does that stack up against a 40mpg gas job? What's long term maintenance costs? What do you pay to put a 50 mile charge on your electricity bill?

I'd love to see a side by side, per mile cost comparison (including initial costs, depreciation etc) for gas vs electric (assuming no rebates and no one else is charging your car for free)
 

BeachBoy

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Current Volt MSRP is $35k minus the incentives (often $8k+) also next gen supposed to be cheaper and not require premium fuel plus longer range.

Battery charge is about $1 and runs 50 miles on next gen Volt (current is max 40). Depends on your utility rate. Calculate 11-12 KwH at your home night rate (11.3 on current volt)

If you run long distance then its 40mpg after the initial 50 miles. (Current is 37mpg after the battery 40miles)
 

Charles (in GA)

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The deal in Georgia is a $5000 state tax CREDIT. You have to incur at least that much in taxes owed for the credit to offset it. The Federal tax credit is taken directly by the dealer at the time of lease. My Co-workers were paying about $240 a month for a two year lease, that was all taxes and tag included, meaning it is costing them about $760 over two years, plus insurance, and electricity to operate the vehicle. One guy, using the 120v charging cord and an Kill-A-Watt meter determined it was costing between two and three cents per mile in electricity which is, depending on the price of gas, one third to one quarter of the per mile cost to run my Vibe, plus no oil changes or other maintenance save for tires.
 

Charles (in GA)

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There are lots of charging stations on the market. I researched quite a few of them. Generally there are ones designed to operate on 40 amp and 50 amp circuits, and some for 30 amp circuits. You do not want to load the circuit over 80% so a 30 amp can supply 24 amps, a 40 amp supplies 32 amps, and a 50 amp supplies 40 amps. It all depends on what your car can accept. Some Leafs only come with the 1600 watt internal charger and so having anything capable of supplying more than this is of no value. The optional package on the Leaf is the high capacity 240v/6.6Kw charger -plus- a super high rate, DC direct to the batteries unit that some dealers have. Those direct DC chargers can run upwards of $100K or more. The high capacity charger that comes are part of this package can draw (or be supplied) up to 6.6Kw. Thus, having a wall unit capable of supplying the car with more than 28 amps is a waste of money, as the car will not draw over that anyhow. If you want to charge a Leaf at max, get a 40 amp (input circuit, 32 amp output to the car) charging station and be done with it. The car "talks" to the charging station via a handshaking circuit and the car's charger agrees not to draw more than the charging station "says" its capable of providing.

While I am not sure of it for all chargers, I think most only need to be supplied with the two hots and a ground. Clipper Creek makes theirs with various plugs some being three prong such as a NEMA 6-50, while others use a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30, which are both four prong (but I don't think they actually use the neutral for anything), and you can also get it in a hardwired version. Its the same NEMA 4 housing (weatherproof) on all of them, but the plug models lose their outdoor rating due to the plug. The 32A/7.7Kw models with plug are $589 and hardwired, with just a pigtail are $565. Some charge stations have time delays, which is simply a timer that again handshakes with the car to tell the car when to begin charging. However, I think, not sure, that the Leaf can be programmed to delay its charging also, so the time delay in the wall unit is redundant for it.

Siemens, Leviton, Schneider (Square D), EVoCharge, Bosch, and a whole bunch more also make charging stations. Word on the internet is the Bosch units are pretty junky/problematic. I read alot good about the Clipper Creek as being trouble free and simple without a bunch of bells and whistles. Siemens puts either 12 ft or 20 ft cords on theirs, while Bosch and EVo use an 18 ft cord, Some others seem to be rather short, and the some models of all brands have cords as long as 25 ft. Its hit or miss, but research this before buying. Also check and make sure that a very necessary wall mounting bracket is included, most of the time it is not, and without it you don't have the UL/ETL certification. In all cases, download the manuals and read them carefully as to mounting and installation, to make sure you won't have to spend a bundle on "options" to install it.

The Federal tax credit for the installation of the wall charging station is over, but in Georgia, Georgia Power, if you are their customer, will give you a $250 credit if you install a charging station.

Charles
 
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BeachBoy

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^^ great info.

I am planning a clipper with a plug inside and outside the garage and just switch the unit location winter/summer when the car is in different locations.
 

Falcon67

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I was seriously considering a Leaf a while back. I found some compatible chargers that used a NEMA 6-50 outlet (same as a welder).

Ended up not doing it, my round trip commute distance is right near the edge of its range, and I figure the battery might degrade a little over the duration of the lease and leave me coming up short on range.

Why we drive a hybrid. We're averaging 37 MPG city/highway and I don't *****-foot the thing. I really don't give a **** with the payback might be - it's a big car, nice to drive and doen't use much gas. I'd get tired of plugging in a car every day. We have a pure electric for running around out little town - a gold cart. However, Texas made all golf carts illegal to drive on the street. Probably because somebody in the Legislature has ties to an LSV supplier.
 

WanderingSol07

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I too have a Volt, I live in the northern half of Indiana, so decent amount of cold weather. Had my car for 2.5 years now. I average 4.5 cents per mile (cost of electric and gas used). Summertime I am just below 2 cents per mile. Most of my driving is in town, so usually electric only for six weeks, then we take an out of town trip of 200 miles.

I have my 240V EVSE hardwired. Besides the cost of the EVSE it cost me $122 for parts and labor to add a 240V/20A circuit to the panel, run the wire, and install a recessed box in the wall.

It takes about 5 seconds to plug in or unplug, so 10 seconds a day, 1 minute a week, 5 minutes a month... All in my garage. I buy gas about once every three months.

Your service would be based on what the car charger can handle. You buy the appropriate EVSE for the car, appropriate wire and breaker for the EVSE.

Oh yeah, I remote start mine in the garage in winter to preheat the car, gas engine will not run when plugged in.

Tim.
 
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