Electric heat cost

[jawnd393]

I'm crunching numbers to analyze the cost of heat from Electric, kerosene, Propane, & natural gas.
I always thought that electric heat is most costly but what I'm finding is,

Cost calculated for for 100000 btu:

Elect is $0.11/kwh and works out to $3.22 for 100000 btu

Kerosene bought at the gas station in a 5 gal can it comes to about $3.11
Can't seem to find it much below $4 a gal

Propane bought in 20 lbs tanks is is like $4.65 for 100000 btu
When you get up to 100 gal tanks it might be slightly less than elect. It was hard to figure because there's extra fees tacked on for delivery.

Natural gas is only $1 for 100000 btu. Cheapest by far but It would be a real pain to Pipe the gas a convoluted path through the house and than through 95 feet trench to the garage. or expensive for a plumber.

I'm currently wiring the garage and I'm thinking about adding some extra circuits for several cheap 1500 watt heaters. 4 of them would give the same btu as 1 expensive 6kw heater.
JohnD

 

[Boyd Who]

How big is the space you're trying to heat? I have a 5KW electric heater (approx. 16,000btu) that is more than adequate for my 20x22. 100,000btu might be overkill unless it's a large space.

 

[jawnd393]

100000 was just the unit I used to compare cost. I started with the gas utility bill which bills by number of therms used. As I understand it therm is equal to 100000 btu. So the natural gas bill was already in 100000 units.
I just worked out the quantity needed of each fuel for 100000btu and cost for that quantity. I did not adjust for efficiency.

The space is 24'x28'x10-1/2'H. The garage is not totally finished. The soffits are open. The wiring's not finished and the siding's still in boxes. I've got a 60 amp service in with (1) 15 amp temporary outlet. When finished and insulated maybe 20000 btu or so will do.

 

[bobadame]

Just out of curiosity a couple of days ago I took a 1.5 KW electric heater out to the shop, turned it up full blast. Temp came up a degree almost 2 degrees from 49F to 51F. The digital electric meter recorded 13 KW used. That's about $1.40. I looked at the temp in there this morning, once again 49F. I suspect that tonight when I check it again it will read 51F again but this time with no heat added, just the natural temp rise from the sun during the day. for what it's worth

Next day: same 2 degree temperature rise with no heat added. It's a pretty big shop but I expected more from the little 1.5KW.

 

[jawnd393]

one 1.5kw heater is 5118 btu

 

[Charles (in GA)]

I'm currently wiring the garage and I'm thinking about adding some extra circuits for several cheap 1500 watt heaters. 4 of them would give the same btu as 1 expensive 6kw heater. JohnD

Small electric heaters are not very effective as they do not have large fans to move the air any distance. You need something that will move the heat more than a couple of feet.

Charles

 

[vtx531]

You might find this post helpful: http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=86537

I just put a 5600w electric heater in my garage and it works pretty good. It was $125 so not much more than buying a bunch of small little heaters.

 

[Dragster Racer]

I have run the numbers, and on paper electric makes sense every time. And in the real world propane is cheaper every time. I don't know what the disconnect is, but it seems to work that way.

 

[Vicegrip]

There is more than one kind of electric heat. Resistance and heat pump are two. Heat pump is way less $ per BTU than resistance electric heat.

 

[jawnd393]

I think it's too cold for heat pumps here unless maybe a ground source system. That would be too expensive for my garage.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I think it's too cold for heat pumps here unless maybe a ground source system. That would be too expensive for my garage.

I don't get it. Natural Gas is LESS THAN 1/3 what the cost of electric is, but the path is "too convoluted". Are you fricken kidding me?

AND, you're wrong about heat pumps too. They would work "OK" in valpariso and save you more than half vs. the solution you are considering.

Electrical resistance heat is a joke. I hope no one is offended...but it just is nothing more than a way to spin your electric meter at the highest rate possible. The only saving grace is it's cheap to install. Penny wise but pound foolish. You'll never get ahead that way.

Phil

 

[KENLUDE97]

I kind of agree with HoosierBuddy. I started thinking about using a G73 Electric heater in my 16x24 garage. I figured out the cost of use (with the additional cost) compared to a 45kbtu Mrheater.

8hr use per/week
4weeks per/month
192hrs/yr
6 months use
4.16 yrs to pay off.

Now that is ONLY using it wile you are out there.

I keep coming back to a Vent free http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200332735_200332735

LOW inital cost, low fuel cost, no venting cost (like Electric). Yes it will be "harder" to install( with the fuel lines) but i think that it is worth the effort, at least to me i'm only going ~15' from the house to the garage. It will not move the air like a full Mr. heater, but everything is a trade off.

Good luck.

 

[jawnd393]

There's a garage heater version of that heater. I think the flame is somewhat more shielded. These were on sale at Menards for $149 around thanksgiving.

http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200442160_200442160

 

[KENLUDE97]

Thanks for the heads up! And hey its cheaper!

 

[Falcon67]

Next day: same 2 degree temperature rise with no heat added. It's a pretty big shop but I expected more from the little 1.5KW.

Just means your place loses at least that much heat over that time. You just have to put in more than is going out to get a temp rise.

 

[Weedwaka]

Electrical resistance heat is a joke. I hope no one is offended...but it just is nothing more than a way to spin your electric meter at the highest rate possible. The only saving grace is it's cheap to install. Penny wise but pound foolish. You'll never get ahead that way.

Phil

Before we had our gas radiant system up and running, we ran a 1500 watt - plug in style radiating electric heater. It heated our 1600 sq foot ICF garage and suite up top ( spray foam ). This was the fall, and when the temps got to about 5c to -4 at night, it ran full on non stop. Our electric bill was INSANE . We averaged 46 kwh per day. Now that our radiant system is up we are averaging 17 kwh per day and for half a month of the billing cycle, it was OFF. To properly heat our space with electric through the winter , we would have needed two more units as we get really cold. I cant imagine the bill. We almost went with electric resistance heaters due to ease of install and price. Yikes !!

Electrical Prices - We have a two tier system, about 6.27 c for the first 1350 kw and 8.x afterwards.

 

[MikeLawrence]

I don't get it. Natural Gas is LESS THAN 1/3 what the cost of electric is, but the path is "too convoluted". Are you fricken kidding me?

AND, you're wrong about heat pumps too. They would work "OK" in valpariso and save you more than half vs. the solution you are considering.

Electrical resistance heat is a joke. I hope no one is offended...but it just is nothing more than a way to spin your electric meter at the highest rate possible. The only saving grace is it's cheap to install. Penny wise but pound foolish. You'll never get ahead that way.

Phil

^ this basically.

I like electric about as much as anyone can but resistance is almost always a "last resort" heating option.

Now if you don't already have a cooling solution in place for the summer you might want to at least think about something like a www.thruwalls.com/units/ptac/az61h15dab as a competitor to a dual setup (like say a window unit + natural gas heater).

Depending on your price per kW versus NG prices in your area, a good heat pump will usually be pretty close on operating cost to NG (say within ~20% of the $/BTU). If you figure the price of a NG set-up with some installation labor and then have to tack on $500 for a decent A/C then the price of a thru-the-wall can start to look pretty nice depending on the situation. (There's a reason every motel on earth uses them... and that reason is $$$.)

On the other hand if you already have a cooling solution, (or just don't care about one) I'd have to imagine that NG is going to be the way to go.

Offered only as an opinion,
Michael Lawrence, Lissco

 

[jawnd393]

I have a 18000 BTU window air conditioner that I gave a neighbor $50 for. I'll make a hole in the back wall for it.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I have a 18000 BTU window air conditioner that I gave a neighbor $50 for. I'll make a hole in the back wall for it.

I'm scratching my head about why asked about Electric cost. It seems like you really aren't that concerned about the cost.

4 heaters X 1.5KW X .09/KWH X 24H/D X 30D/Month = $260/month



Heat Pump would be $100 to $120 per month for the same thing.

Natual would be $75 or $80 for the same thing.

Phil

 

[Weedwaka]

I just worked out the quantity needed of each fuel for 100000btu and cost for that quantity. I did not adjust for efficiency.

Some of those NG garage heaters like the Mr Heater Big Maxx are really inefficient. 80% sticks in my mind. That would help your case for electrical a bit.

Why dont you do a quick heat loss calc on your garage and see exactly how many btu's you actually need. If gas is THAT much of a pita, you could insulate reallr really well and run a smaller electric unit ? Then adjust the gas for efficiency too based on the heater you would want.

 

[ishiboo]

Some of you guys here have cheap electricity... 6 cents?! Wow.

Paying .11something in the city and .12something outside the city. Boo.

 

[Falcon67]

11.5 / kWh here. Our house eats 35~54 kW a day. There is no gas in the subdivision, so that's not an option for us. The house has a fireplace, there are several dead trees here and I have a chain saw. Good to go.

 

[jawnd393]

It all started because it looks like using 20lb propane cans with my portable space heater cost more than electric heat. I just paid $19 for a 20lb tank, including tax.

I don't see these as the end solution but I have a 50k kerosene torpedo heater, a 30k propane torpedo heater and a 4kw portable electric heater.

I once rented a 4kw heater when the house heat failed. Now I like to keep one on hand. It makes it a lot less of an emergency and may give me time to fix the problem without calling a pro. I actually just bought a new one because the old one died while stored in shed. A slight advantage of 4kw over larger is it just needs a 20 amp 240 circuit. Here's what I got.

http://www.menards.com/main/applian...40-volt-utility-heater/p-1354160.htm?cid=1307

John

 

[keweenawbee]

Weedwaka, your radiant system runs half a day and only burns 17KW per day? The smallest electric radiant boiler I have found is a 7.5KW unit, which would burn that in a little over two hours at full on. Are you factoring in a full year and counting the summer too (when it is off), or do you have solar panels, ..............or what? Please explain what type of 1600 sq. ft. radiant system you have, it sounds like you have found the long sought after fusion boiler.

 

[Weedwaka]

I dont have electric radiant

 

[keweenawbee]

OK I think I understand, you are paying for 17kw a day just to run your radiant pumps and lights, ect. My rate up in upper Michigan is right about .18/KWH and they have applied to raise it another huge chunk right now. I just want to use my 7.5kw boiler as a remote controlled pre-heater until I arrive there and switch to the LP boiler. The electric full time would put me in the foreclosure roles.