Electric heat only-Ideas??

[wildman]

Ok I am getting down to the wire here again this winter and still don't have the garage wired or insulated. But I hope to have it done so I can work this winter. Before I wire everything I need to decide what type of heaters I am going to run. I read the thread on the radiant heaters and that really has my curiosity.

I have a 24X30' garage, 8' ceiling. Going to use R19 in the walls and R22 or 30 in the ceiling. I want to keep the garage heated at all times for the refigerator and freezer that I will have. I have ruled out a wood stove or pellet stove because of this. There isn't natural gas available in my area and propane would be too costly to get installed.

My goal is to keep it around 35-40 degrees when not used and 50-55 degrees when I am out there working. Winter here in the mountains of Washington can get to 0degrees but that is about as low as it gets. So post up the ideas.

Thanks

 

[timgr]

I use a couple of the Dayton hanging heaters. http://www.greenhousemegastore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=HT-UTIL

If you want to go electric, google "electric unit heaters."

 

[Kevin54]

My wife has a building that is 20'x20' with 8' ceilings, R19 walls, R32 ceiling. She uses two of the oil filled radiators that you get for around $30-50 at Lowes, HD, etc. She can keep her building at 70* when it is around -10 to 0 outside. Most of the time she runs both at the same time, medium setting, and it will stay a comfortable 65 degrees. But there is also a ceiling fan to help circulate the air. And mind you....this building has a 6' door area and 8 windows in it, so there is quite a bit of glass.

 

[timgr]

Electric baseboard heat is another possibility. You can buy these at the big box stores (at least you can her in MA). Same resistive electric principle as the unit heater, except it uses convection to distribute the air instead of a fan.

 

[wildman]

The oil filled heaters would get in the way of things and my garage/shop is cramped on space now.

I read this thread on radiant heaters http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22839 and would really like to hear more about the pro's and con's of radiant heat. Also which is more efficent? A heating coil and fan or radiant heat?

 

[timgr]

By definition, electricity is always 100% efficient. All the power that goes into the heater gets turned into heat from resistance in the coils. There's no wasted heat in exhaust gas to reduce the efficiency.

A unit heater also runs a fan, which turns some of the electricity into moving air, so you could argue that the fan power is a loss of efficiency. I expect this usage is so small compared to the power used to make heat as to be negligible. Baseboard also turns some power into moving air by inducing convection in the room, but that's a process that would be very hard to analyze quantitatively.

The radiant heaters don't really heat the air so much as they heat the surfaces in the room. I don't think there's any difference in the efficiency per se, but the radiant heat has a different feel. Consider how a sunny day can feel warm even though the air is cold - that's because the radiant energy of the sunlight is heating your skin. Step into a shadow, and you'll feel colder. Same with a radiant heater - if you can stand in front of it, it will make you feel warmer than you might given the air temperature. Eventually the radiant heater will heat the air indirectly, by warming surfaces so they pass some of that heat to the air.

The unit heater or baseboard will be just the opposite - the air in the room will warm quickly, and then pass that heat on to the surfaces. I expect this will be more comfortable, once the room gets up to temperature. I'd guess the radiant heater would be better if you want to work in a cold space that never really gets up to a comfortable temperature.

 

[JebNY]

A friend just installed a Toshiba heat pump. It was relatively inexpensive for a heat pump and heats and cools. Easy installation and is suppose to be 200% efficient down to around 20 degrees and then drop off to 100% at 0. To early to see what it really does but you may want to look into it. Straight electric can be expensive.

Jeb

 

[tfi racing]

A few baseboard heaters may be the way to go.You should be able to grab them used fairly cheaply in your area,I paid $20 for a new one at the Habitat for Humanity Re- store and use a programmable T-stat.I put a 240V eight footer in my 21x21 attached garage and so far it seems to do the job,I can't comment on how much it costs,as the whole house is on baseboard heat.A bigger detached garage will need a bit more I know.I'm on Vancouver Island,so our climate is pretty much the same,just less snow.

 

[rsanter]

what do we have to work with?
you have electricity but what else? propane? natural gas?

electricity may be 100% efficient but that does not mean it is the cheapest to use for heating

I would think natural gas would be the cheapest

bob

 

[VHF]

A friend installed these radiant heat panels which mount on the wall near the ceiling in his 25x40 shop. He put in 12 of them for a total of 15,000 watts, more than the recommended amount, but it heats his space quickly. He has four 20A 240V breakers for the heaters.

http://www.radiantsystemsinc.com/

He is very comfortable with the thermostat set at 60F, comparing being near the radiant panels with standing in the sun.

 

[SnyperBob]

what do we have to work with?
you have electricity but what else? propane? natural gas?

electricity may be 100% efficient but that does not mean it is the cheapest to use for heating

I would think natural gas would be the cheapest

bob

He said electricity is the only option

 

[danski0224]

Ok I am getting down to the wire here again this winter and still don't have the garage wired or insulated. But I hope to have it done so I can work this winter. Before I wire everything I need to decide what type of heaters I am going to run. I read the thread on the radiant heaters and that really has my curiosity.

I have a 24X30' garage, 8' ceiling. Going to use R19 in the walls and R22 or 30 in the ceiling. I want to keep the garage heated at all times for the refigerator and freezer that I will have. I have ruled out a wood stove or pellet stove because of this. There isn't natural gas available in my area and propane would be too costly to get installed.

My goal is to keep it around 35-40 degrees when not used and 50-55 degrees when I am out there working. Winter here in the mountains of Washington can get to 0degrees but that is about as low as it gets. So post up the ideas.

Thanks

How much power do you have available?

Using a rough guess of 30 btu's per square foot, you need about 22,000 btu's to warm the space... windows and doors will effect this.

At roughly 3.4 btu's per watt, that puts you at roughly 6500 watts.

6500W / 220 V = 29.5 amps (single phase assumption here). You can double that if you are going to use 110 V power.

Typical residential 110V space heaters (any type) are limited to 1500 watts each, so you would need 5 of those. The brand Fahrenheat offers an oil filled baseboard design with a two stage (750W/1500W) automatic thermostat. The thermostat becomes automatic once the space reaches the desired temp and you make the final adjustment.

You may be able to source a two stage commercial type electric unit heater... say two stages at 4kW each... or 3 at 2500 W each (but only on 220V).

The big box stores here stock a 5kW "garage unit heater" for about $350 that operates on 220V.

You will not know your exact btu need until you perform a heating load calculation on your space.

You will not have a rapid temperature recovery like you can get with gas or oil fired forced air unit heater. It could take a couple of hours to make the 10* rise.

I would check utility costs to figure out the damage.

 

[wildman]

There is no natural gas in my area and when I had the house built it was built all electric so there is no propane. When the garage was wire I had 200 Amp service put to the garage because I knew I was going to be working in it. I wanted to be able to run a welder/plasma cutter/air compressor all at the same time if needed. I have a empty panel right now with 3 breakers in it so far. So yes I have 220V in the garage.

Thanks for everyones input and I hope to get this done before winter!! I have a feeling I'll be doing some of it in the cold.

 

[bookman51]

Wildman, I have a similar challenge. No natural gas or propane, but want a warm enough hope to work in. I am interested in the answers you get to your question. Bookman

 

[rburke65]

How about an electric heat pump?

 

[danski0224]

How about an electric heat pump?

The only one that might work is the Acadia.

 

[mdoolittle]

I would also recommend the comfort cove radiant heat. Easy to install, no noise, no moving parts, awesome company to deal with.

 

[rburke65]

What is 'the Acadia'? I thought it was a GMC SUV.

 

[colt340]

Wildman,

I would go with the Dayton electric heater that hangs from the ceiling.
I used one of these in my last garage to heat it and it worked great. I
would also put in a ceiling fan to circulate the air and to warm it faster.
My last garage was 22 x 28 and when I saw how small this unit was I had my doubts. But it surprised me and it kept the garage at 70 degrees when it was
15- 20 degrees out. I had to put it on a 220 circuit by itself, so make sure you have 220 for it to operate.

al

 

[Matt M PA]

colt340...was that the DaytonG73? I have one of those in my 18x20, but was not sure about what to use in my new 26x32.

I was thinking of using two of the G73s. (and really need some input on that)

 

[colt340]

colt340...was that the DaytonG73? I have one of those in my 18x20, but was not sure about what to use in my new 26x32.

I was thinking of using two of the G73s. (and really need some input on that)

Matt M, PA

I'm not a expert on heating, all I can do is tell you how my garage was setup.
It was 650 sq. ft. and had a 8ft ceiling and was well insulated. I also had a couple of ceiling fans to help move that warm air around. So if you are insulated and have low ceilings it could possibly be enough to heat. Just remember the floor always stays cold.

I'm currently trying to decide what kind of heat to put in the garage that we had rebuilt this summer. But I think I'm going with gas because there is already a gas line already plumbed into the garage. Now its just a question of
what kind of heater Radiant tube or forced air.

Hope this helps.
al

 

[Matt M PA]

colt3430...thanks. My walls are to be 9' with an attic and one area with a vaulted ceiling....so I'm thinking (as others suggested in another post) that two of these will not be up to the task.

I am really leaning (despite a friend's total objection) to a propane Big Max.

 

[Speed Shop]

I just looked at the specs on the Dayton G37 and I can't find where its made. I am considering a Fahrenheat unit that is similar in spec, UL approved and made in the USA. Anyone have any experience with this unit? My garage is 20 x 20 and partially insulated.

 

[itb76]

I just ordered the Dayton, I'll let you know when it arrives.

 

[itb76]

My Dayton heater came today. Unfortunately, it's made in China. If I knew for sure the Fahrenheat is US made, I probably would have spent the extra $30 or whatever and got that. But the Dayton was less and looked better in the photos.

Incidentally, I ordered it from the greenhouse place in Danville, IL mentioned in the second post, and it shipped from Grainger in Niles. So I went to Grainger's website, and the same unit is like $120 more. Probably no free shipping either. Go figure.

 

[buening]

As far as I know, Dayton just rebadges the Fahrenheat units......so they are both made in China. My Dayton should arrive in the next day or two as well. Mine will be heating an insulated 20x22 garage.

 

[vc-onthepc]

with the dayton unit how noisy are they ? i have a champion 175000 btu kersosene fired torpedo style and its noisy to say the least and wnat a semi quiet heating system

and can you leave them on to keep a temp say 50 degrees all the time ? with no worries of burning the place down

....

garage is a 14 x 36 amish a frame workshop insulated with r13 walls and roof and soon to be ceiling.

 

[bobbie45617]

I recently moved into an existing house with attached garage. Of course two of the garage walls and the ceiling are finished but not insulated. I live in North Texas where cooling and heating are a must during the extreme temperatures encountered during the summer and winter (to some extent). For the most part I've got the HVAC unit figured out but need to decide on the best course of action for insulating.

Walls:

 

[bobbie45617]

I recently moved into an existing house with attached garage. Of course two of the garage walls and the ceiling are finished but not insulated. I live in North Texas where cooling and heating are a must during the extreme temperatures encountered during the summer and winter (to some extent). For the most part I've got the HVAC unit figured out but need to decide on the best course of action for insulating.

Walls:

* I've done the roll fiber glass and can attest to it's effectiveness but it is a nasty job to install and the existing sheet-rock has to come down off the walls and new rock installed. Adding additional cost and work to the project.

* Blow in cellulose insulation for the walls I'm told settles over time leaving a large portion uninsulated. Besides won't it wick moisture if it finds it's way in?

* I'm just starting to read-up on Spray-in foam insulation. It comes in open cell and closed cell materials (still learning the difference between the two). "Supposedly" it no longer releases harmful chemicals like formaldehyde and others that previously made it toxic. So if we assume for the moment (can you all tell I'm skeptical) it is ok from a safety/health risk stand point then it sounds like a pretty good way to go if your garage has already been finished out. I've looked at several manufactures that make DIY kits available in a low rise formula that won't cause the sheet-rock to be pushed off the studs due to rapid expansion. Besides potential health risks due to off gassing you better make sure that you pull all the wires, cable or water lines through the walls ahead of time or you'll be in trouble later.


Attic:
I think there may only two practical ways to insulate the ceiling.

* Blow in cellious insulation works great for an attic but not if you plan on decking it later on.

* Roll fiberglass insulation if you plan on decking the attic for light storage later. Done at night after the sun goes down.


Any other ideas I am not thinking of would be greatly appreciated?

 

[wmonroe]

itb76- Do you have any updates on how the Dayton unit is doing?
Will

 

[buening]

I have my Dayton installed. I think it is more of a leave-it-on-low all the time type heaters, then crank it up when you get out to the garage to bring it up 10° or so. It blows hot air, but will take a few hours to warm my insulated 19x21 garage from the bitter cold. I can't really expect it to heat quickly since its only 17k BTU. Those that are spoiled with the quick heat-ups of a kerosene salamander heater may be disappointed, unless you have patience.

It is definitely not very noisy. May not be an extremely accurate example, but it's probably close to the same noise level as a window air conditioning unit.

 

[vc-onthepc]

thanks I know what im buying to replace that noisemaker I have now

FOR SALE ONE SLIGHTLY USED SLAMANDER LOL KIDDING KIDDING

 

[rinker1]

It wont be this winter but by next year my salamander is going out the door, to noisy.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

$229.99 Right now, Said to be the same inside and out as the Dayton.
http://www.farmandfleet.com/catalog/product.aspx?i=194376&h=050406001#.TozanXLAXRQ

 

[thornstein]

Question before I commit to the Dayton G73 please. Is it possible to set the LO to HIGH knob on the Dayton in order to maintain the desired temperature when you aren't in the shop? OR, am I going to have to constantly adjust the knob in order to maintain a specific temperature?

 

[Kriilin]

I got this one from Lowes: http://www.king-electric.com/prodtemp.asp?prodID=KBP
About $250, works great, and I think it's actually made in the USA (shocker!). The other nice thing about it is you can vary the wattage, so you can kick it back if you're running out of juice. I live in the middle of the Great White North (eh!), and it kept my garage nice all winter.

 

[Desmond61]

I have a 24X30' garage, 8' ceiling. Going to use R19 in the walls and R22 or 30 in the ceiling.

 

[dave67fd]

Question before I commit to the Dayton G73 please. Is it possible to set the LO to HIGH knob on the Dayton in order to maintain the desired temperature when you aren't in the shop? OR, am I going to have to constantly adjust the knob in order to maintain a specific temperature?

Probably have to constantly have to adjust. There are threads on here on installing a high current wall thermostat for that heater.

I have a 24X30' garage, 8' ceiling. Going to use R19 in the walls and R22 or 30 in the ceiling.

AND??

 

[BadgerBoilerMN]

Radiant floor with an electric boiler of course!