Electric heat question

[Woodsrider]

Garage:
-1 yr old.
-Attached 2 car, 11' ceilings, approx. 700sqft.
-Insulated.
-Southern Ontario

Dilema:
I would like to keep the garage warm-ish. I work on my dirt bikes and have set up a 12x12 work out area with horse stall mats on the concrete floor.
We have NG so obviously a radiant tube would be the best bet. Thing is, we may or may not be moving in a few years. Depends on what my employer does. I'd hate to fork out the cash for that install just to find out we move in 2 years.
So I'm thinking of having a sub panel installed and putting in electric heat. Everyone here seems to recommend the g73 heater but I'm wondering about using a wall mounted patio type electric radiant heater. Preferably putting one at the work out area, and one where the bikes are as they are on opposite sides of the garage. Normally the garage stays above freezing but it's still too cold to work out or work on bikes.

Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[kd3pc]

electric heat is notoriously INefficient.

you may see break even with NG before your two year as compared to the electric bill. I would seriously look at the comparison, but would lean to NG

 

[theoldwizard1]

electric heat is notoriously INefficient.

you may see break even with NG before your two year as compared to the electric bill. I would seriously look at the comparison, but would lean to NG

+1 !

Some electric companies give special rate for electric heat.

 

[djjsr]

electric heat is notoriously INefficient.

I always thought that electric heat was 100% efficient. I think you mean it's not the most economical, but I guess that depends on your rates for electricity vs NG or propane.

 

[CNGsaves]

With attached garage, I'd sure brainstorm ways that you could get the NG supply line over to garage for your heater.

Do you have unfinished basement?? I'd recommend black pipe steel that you could easily do yourself. If you have any long runs, there are contractor length sticks of 21 ft each. Get the NG line into garage, then surface mount it the rest of way.

If no basement, then you could go UP through an interior wall (ie from furnace room) and into attic, then over to garage.

Pressure test it overnight, and also soapy water test at all connections.

If NG not possible, do you have electric stove?? If so, 240v electric should be right there behind wall on attached garage that you might be able to backpull another 240v run for your heater (ie sheetrock wall would need torn up, then repaired when done).

Finally, if you think you might stay at house longer, I would do both - - - run a larger NG line to that wall behind electric stove so you could someday upgrade to dual-fuel stove (NG & electric), in addition to fueling NG for garage heater . . . PLUS . . . pull in wire so you could have subpanel in garage. Thus, best of both worlds !!

 

[zmaxmotorsports]

electric heat is notoriously INefficient.

you may see break even with NG before your two year as compared to the electric bill. I would seriously look at the comparison, but would lean to NG

Are you sure about that?Electric heat is actually very efficient,with a gas furnace a good chunk of the heat goes up the chimney unless you run a 90plus furnace.

 

[dandan111]

I think you will be fine with either but I sure like my g73. You will want a fan type I bet.

 

[Highbeam]

electric heat is notoriously INefficient.

Wrong. Totally false and a silly statement. Electric has no chimney, every bit of the power used by a resistance heater ends up as heat in the room. 100% efficient. It's not cheap, but that has nothing to do with efficiency.

 

[kd3pc]

Are you sure about that?Electric heat is actually very efficient,with a gas furnace a good chunk of the heat goes up the chimney unless you run a 90plus furnace.

http://www.energyvanguard.com/blog-...d/20638/When-Is-100-Efficient-Not-Good-Enough

describes what I call in-efficiency...and in VA the cost of electricity to the customer is a lot higher than NG....

I would still look at the over all cost of going NG, even for two years

 

[Stuart in MN]

Electric heat is generally more expensive to operate but is also generally less expensive to buy and install. If you intend on keeping the garage heated 24/7 I'd recommend using gas, but if the intent is to only heat it on occasion electric may be a good choice. First, figure out how much heat you need, there are various heat loss calculators available online. Then, figure out how often you plan on using the heater, and multiply that times whatever your electric rate is from the utility. This will give you a reasonable idea of how much it will cost per month, and then you can decide if it's worth it or not.

 

[rburke65]

So where is the "inefficiency" of electric heat.?

 

[Highbeam]

So where is the "inefficiency" of electric heat.?

There is none. Every watt of energy you put into the heater comes out as heat.

 

[pseudorealityx]

So where is the "inefficiency" of electric heat.?

Only when you compare to a heat pump. Those can be 3 times more efficient than strip heat.

 

[Stuart in MN]

Only when you compare to a heat pump. Those can be 3 times more efficient than strip heat.

So heat pumps are 300% efficient?

 

[pseudorealityx]

So heat pumps are 300% efficient?

Depends on how you want to quantify 'efficiency'.

They have COP's over 3. While an electric heater has a COP of 1. The COP is measured in terms of BTU output/work.

The 'efficiency' comes from being able to use the energy released/absorbed during phase change.

 

[CNGsaves]

^ ^ ^ You know . . . . heat pumps are in . . . Psuedo Reality ??!!#?!

Fairly easy call that OP won't be in heat pump market for short-term stay in garage where he's wondering if he can afford 240v line and G73 heater . . . . say budget in hundreds or $1,000 tops.

How about OP give us budget . . . and likelyhood he will move in 2 years.

 

[pseudorealityx]

^ ^ ^ You know . . . . heat pumps are in . . . Psuedo Reality ??!!#?!

Fairly easy call that OP won't be in heat pump market for short-term stay in garage where he's wondering if he can afford 240v line and G73 heater . . . . say budget in hundreds or $1,000 tops.

How about OP give us budget . . . and likelyhood he will move in 2 years.

I wasn't responding to the OP as much as the folks here who think electricity is the most efficient use of energy.

Heat pumps are obviously a bit more of a niche product, based upon climate, use, cost, etc.

 

[Woodsrider]

Thanks for the replies and the electrical efficiency debate.
I'm an operating engineer at a large power plant so we don't need to discuss the pros and cons of the electric heat. We also have some of the most expensive electricity in North America... thank you government for installing all those wind turbines and paying foreign companies up to 10x the going rate for electricity... but I digress.

To answer some questions:
The gas meter is right at the garage. The 'furnace' room is in the basement right beside the garage. Tough to explain, but the main gas line coming into the house and the electrical panel would be less than 5' from the interior of the garage. No lengthy runs and the stove is wired for electric but we have a gas one. Running a sub panel would be very easy.
Budget: less than a $1000 would be ideal.
I'd also like to avoid poking large vent holes in the roof or wall. All brick exterior. That's why I'm thinking electric heat for when we need it and to keep the garage above freezing.
Perhaps I've worded my question to vaguely. I'm interested in the seeing if anyone used one of those patio radiant type heaters inside a garage as opposed to the g73 style. The radiant would just heat objects in its path while the g73, convection type heats the air which then has to pass its heat onto the objects.
My kids like to open the garage doors during winter to pull out their sleds and shovels which could lead to long recovery times.
Maybe I should price out one of those Big Maxx heaters installed. I can always just take it with me.

 

[ZRX1040]

If your that close to a gas line run a gastite hose from the basement to the garage and install an overhead NG heater. Menards has a Beacon Morris 45K BTU for under $400 on sale this time of year. I have one in my 28' x 28' detached and it's plenty, 3.5" insulation in the walls and 6" in ceiling. I'm 100 mi north of Green Bay. I dont keep it heated all the time, but at 20 below it'll heat up to 70 in 20 min. You should be able to do it yourself for about $500.

If you already have 220v in the garage you can get a 5600watt portable elect heater that will do the job for under $200 if you shop around.

Natural gas heater

elect heater

elect heatrer

You wouldn't need a sub panel. Just use the breaker for the stove and run a wire (or reroute the old wire) to the garage and install an outlet. I did this in a buddy's 1 car garage and it will literally chase you out in 10 min with his low ceiling. A cheap ceiling fan in reverse will help too.

 

[Fifty]

I'm moving my shop out to where there is no natural gas so I made a comparison of the cost of different fuels by BTU. Electric is by far the most expensive, including kerosene and diesel, even gasoline, even if you account for 80% efficiency of a burning appliance. Propane works out to be about half the cost of electricity for me! Gas is of course much cheaper than propane.

I think a heat pump works out to cost about the same as gas would in my climate. They do make window/portable style heat pumps....