Electric heat

[Catadj78]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112175630314


Anyone have any dealings with these?

I have an area about 30x30 I'm trying to heat with 10' wall heaight and open trusses in a pole barn. All I have in this area for insulation is double bubble.

Will one of these heat up to a comfortable level? Should I get 2? Are am I wasting my time with these

 

[Jackfre]

5 kw (5000 watts)X 3414 (btu/kw) will deliver about 17000 btu. I would suggest that you check your electric rates before going in this direction. The question is, Cheap heat or cheap heater?

 

[Catadj78]

http://www.alabamapower.com/residen...-and-rates/standard-family-dwelling-rate.html


I don't understand how to calculate. The link is the rates. Based on these rates what would it cost me for 12 hours on max. I have 200 amps in the shop

 

[James-W]

With 10 foot walls and open trusses the heat will end up high over you head and you will have very little heat toward the floor where you are working. Unless you have a way of getting the heat back down to where it is needed, heating the building by ANY means will be extremely difficult.

 

[Catadj78]

I am willing to put a couple ceiling fans up to help circulate the heat.

If I'm figuring right one heater for 12 hrs would cost 4.80. Sound right?

 

[gdrum]

I've had one of these in a 400sq ft office for 3 years. I think it uses a lot more juice then you'd expect and becomes very expensive. I switched to propane.

 

[DC73]

http://www.alabamapower.com/residen...-and-rates/standard-family-dwelling-rate.html


I don't understand how to calculate. The link is the rates. Based on these rates what would it cost me for 12 hours on max. I have 200 amps in the shop

Based on that rate structure, best case is that you are already using at least 750 kWh (kilowatt-hours) per month which puts any additional usage at 7.8467 cents per kWh (the 2nd tier in the rate structure). Probable worst case is that this heater and all other use is kept within the 1st rate tier which means the first 750 kWh would cost $81.85 or 10.98 cents per kWh.

Being that it is a 5,000 watt heater which means 5 kW (kilowatts), it will use 5 kWh for each hour of operation. So, for 12 hours of operation you are looking at 60 kWh. From best case to worse case that puts your cost for 12 hours in the range of $4.71 to $6.59.

That adds up to quite a bit if you do it every day. I generally recommend natural gas heat if you have it available. It's generally more efficient. Electric heat is typically the most expensive form of heat in terms of monthly bill. A mini-split heat pump would be more efficient and give you AC as well. Also, you need better insulation. Double bubble is not worth the trouble.

DC

 

[Randy in Maine]

You will be reading your electric meter with a timing light.

 

[James-W]

You will be reading your electric meter with a timing light.

Now that was funny.

 

[Brandon314159]

Double bubble is not worth the trouble.

DC

HAHAHA!

 

[Catadj78]

The shop is 40x40. There is a 12x18 and a 10x14 rooms that are insulated fully. Double bubble is all I have up on the other walls at this time. I do plan on insulating more but that will be a later on.

All I know is I need heat in the work area because I don't like the cold.

I may buy just one of the 5000 watt heaters and use sparingly but I now realize that running 2 all the time is not really an option.

Thoughts on wood burning stove or double barrel wood heaters? I am not running gas or propane lines so my choices appear limited

 

[Firebrick43]

Maybe electric clothing until you get things insulated?

https://www.milwaukeetool.com/heated-gear

Many insurance companies frown on wood burners in shops and barrel stove a typically totally forbidden, that is for you to decide. However I do and many others as well love the heat and operating economy of a wood stove. Buy a good stove and proper chimneys is not cheap either however

 

[R_einan]

Have you considered a pellet stove? I used in in my last shop, of 28x42 w/ 12' eves a and a 22' peak. Could hold 65 when it was below freezing.

 

[gregtwojeeps]

With 10 foot walls and open trusses the heat will end up high over you head and you will have very little heat toward the floor where you are working. Unless you have a way of getting the heat back down to where it is needed, heating the building by ANY means will be extremely difficult.

x2.

Anyone think a heater like this would work just for "working in the shop" time only ? OP could use a 20# tank of propane. I would highly recommend adding a carbon monoxide detector in the shop though if one is used. Just as a back up sensor to the units safety shutoff. Increased humidity from the propane being burned a issue or will that be a problem with such high ceilings ? I dunno..


https://www.amazon.com/Dyna-RA18LPDG-Propane-Cabinet-Heater/dp/B0041OEB7E/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1479731415&sr=8-13&keywords=propane+heater

Any source of heat for a mostly uninsulated high ceiling building will not be cheap. Unless the OP can put in a wood stove and can cut the wood from his own property, he does not have many " lower cost" heating options in my opinion. All JMO

 

[Catadj78]

x2.

Anyone think a heater like this would work just for "working in the shop" time only ? OP could use a 20# tank of propane. I would highly recommend adding a carbon monoxide detector in the shop though if one is used. Just as a back up sensor to the units safety shutoff. Increased humidity from the propane being burned a issue or will that be a problem with such high ceilings ? I dunno..


https://www.amazon.com/Dyna-RA18LPDG-Propane-Cabinet-Heater/dp/B0041OEB7E/ref=sr_1_13?ie=UTF8&qid=1479731415&sr=8-13&keywords=propane+heater



Any source of heat for a mostly uninsulated high ceiling building will not be cheap. Unless the OP can put in a wood stove and can cut the wood from his own property, he does not have many " lower cost" heating options in my opinion. All JMO

I have a convection type propane heater out there now. I do a lot of wood working. Dust and open flames bother me a little.

I do however have a rather limitless free or close to free wood supply. I've about decided against the double barrel wood stove for insurance reasons as noted above.

An older wood stove with a blower is what I'm looking for now. I may supple,met the other end of the shop with an electric heater till the shop warms up though.

 

[jekquist]

I am dealing with the similar situation. Nat gas run wasn't in the budget this year. I found these https://www.amazon.com/Infrared-Heater-DR-988-Garage-5600W/dp/B003XOZN7A/ref=sr_1_2?m=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&s=warehouse-deals&ie=UTF8&qid=1479738727&sr=8-2&keywords=dr+infrared+heater

I will be putting foam board up on the bottom side of the trusses, using one of those heaters, and a 100k btu kerosene torpedo heater to get it up to temp quicker. Combined with a ceiling fan it should do okay.

Hanging final electrical lines, ground was cold except right in front of the heater. Up near the trusses I was sweating. Its not ideal but its the best option for me right now.

 

[lakeroadster]

OP... that heater is a poor choice for your application.

I used 2 "Fahrenheat" http://www.homedepot.com/p/Fahrenhe...gclid=CPecp7aOutACFRCRaQod7sUNew&gclsrc=aw.ds heaters in my previous shop, basically the same as the one the OP listed.

The shop had 14 ft ceilings and was 15' x 30', fully insulated. I installed a ceiling fan.

The biggest issue with part time heat is heating the mass of "stuff" in the shop... not the air space.

The heaters worked well as long as the outside temp's were above freezing. I'd go out and turn them on at about 6:00 am and by 9:00 am it was at a good "guy working in his shop" temperature.

Now, if I left my '65 Chevy truck in the shop it took a long time for the temp. to come up.

Based on your comments I'm thinking a large wood stove would be a good choice... and one or two ceiling fans.

 

[Jackfre]

The old rule of thumb is put your first dollar into the envelope, in this case, more insulation. Jumping at an acceptable, but not optimal, solution may be throwing good money after bad. Try to insulate first. You can do that yourself. Of course, my local insulators do the whole job for what I can buy the material for. If that is not in the cards perhaps you can put up some temporary petitions to reduce the area you heat. I'd suggest you give your local Blossman's Propane folks a call and see what they recommend. You are under no obligation in doing so and they can give you some options. More info is always good.

 

[Catadj78]

Where I live our lowest consist temps are in the 30s. It goes below that here but not often and not for long. So if I got a 30 degree raise in temp I'd be happy.

The shop isn't completely done. Starting on cabinets and such soon so I can organize a lil better.

The deal I had with my wife was I built the shop and she got the rest of the house remodeled. She is getting anxious and I have to have the temps bearable so I can build the kitchen and bathroom cabinets for the house. So the remaining insulation and upstairs apartment in the shop will have to wait till she gets her kitchen and bathrooms. I do everything myself and usually off work from oct to feb every year to get it done

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

Insulate, insulate, insulate.

As many of the posters have stated, trying to heat that without insulation is a waste of money. Most of your heat loss will be through the ceiling. I'd start there. Do you have much air infiltration? Possibly through the walls. You should be able to close those with foam.

You'd be very surprised how warm a well insulated building with a few south facing windows can get on a sunny day when its 30*F outside.

Softly tell your wife that if you're going to finish the cabinets in the winter months, you need to insulate and heat the shop so you can work and do good work. Which is why you're going to focus on insulating and sealing up the shop area. Once well insulated, then heating with one or two of those electric heaters becomes more feasible.

Once of the posters talked about heating the mass inside the shop. He was 100% right. If you let the temps drop during the nighttime, you have to heat up all the tools, benches, wood, finished and unfinished projects, etc. It takes BTUs to do that which means lots of electricity.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Where I live our lowest consist temps are in the 30s. It goes below that here but not often and not for long. So if I got a 30 degree raise in temp I'd be happy.

In a 30x30 shop you might need 2 units in opposite corner, plus fans, if you want even heat through out.

 

[tdkkart]

You're in Alabama, with lows in the 30s, which means it gets warmer most days.

Stay in the house on the cool days, or put a coat on.

 

[Catadj78]

You're in Alabama, with lows in the 30s, which means it gets warmer most days.

Stay in the house on the cool days, or put a coat on.

Yeah, that's not an option as I'm not much of in the house person. And if working in the shop during the day was the issue I'd man up and deal with it but I watch our newborn during the day most days while the wife is at work and work out in the shop at night when it's much colder. Its much too cold to bring him outside with me until I get the heat thing going. If health insurance was somewhat affordable I wouldn't have this issue as I'd let the wife quit her job but it's not so this is what I have to deal with.

 

[Catadj78]

Insulate, insulate, insulate.

As many of the posters have stated, trying to heat that without insulation is a waste of money. Most of your heat loss will be through the ceiling. I'd start there. Do you have much air infiltration? Possibly through the walls. You should be able to close those with foam.

You'd be very surprised how warm a well insulated building with a few south facing windows can get on a sunny day when its 30*F outside.

Softly tell your wife that if you're going to finish the cabinets in the winter months, you need to insulate and heat the shop so you can work and do good work. Which is why you're going to focus on insulating and sealing up the shop area. Once well insulated, then heating with one or two of those electric heaters becomes more feasible.

Once of the posters talked about heating the mass inside the shop. He was 100% right. If you let the temps drop during the nighttime, you have to heat up all the tools, benches, wood, finished and unfinished projects, etc. It takes BTUs to do that which means lots of electricity.

Good luck! Keep us posted.

Softly tell the wife? That wouldn't be an issue if I let her to stay home like we had planned when we had our first kid but I already had to tell her tail to get back to work which doesn't make her happy at all. Lol

 

[Falcon67]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/112175630314


Anyone have any dealings with these?

I have an area about 30x30 I'm trying to heat with 10' wall heaight and open trusses in a pole barn. All I have in this area for insulation is double bubble.

Will one of these heat up to a comfortable level? Should I get 2? Are am I wasting my time with these

I have one (Dayton G73) and it works well in an insulated 24x28 space with an 8' ceiling. In a 30x30x10, I'd think you'd need two to get decent heat with that open attic space. They do work surprisingly well for their output.

If you have propane or better NG, one of the 45K BTU ceiling mount vented units would be better in the long run.

 

[tdkkart]

Yeah, that's not an option as I'm not much of in the house person. And if working in the shop during the day was the issue I'd man up and deal with it but I watch our newborn during the day most days while the wife is at work and work out in the shop at night when it's much colder. Its much too cold to bring him outside with me until I get the heat thing going. If health insurance was somewhat affordable I wouldn't have this issue as I'd let the wife quit her job but it's not so this is what I have to deal with.

Been there, done that. Raised our daughter while wife and I worked opposite shifts, she grew up in the garage with me, or I had a baby monitor in the garage while she took her afternoon nap. Did a lot of sitting in the house though when it was too cold to work in an unheated garage and it was below 0*F outside.

It's the sacrifices you make, which seems to be a foreign concept these days......

A buddy used to used a pair of 1200W hanging heaters in a 1-1/2 stall garage where he kept his stock car worked when it was REALLY cold out, but the room was insulated.
If you put up your listed heater and even put up some heavy plastic to keep the heat down below the ceiling you'll be able to get the chill off, but it's not gonna be cheap.

 

[Tfue]

Is a torpedo heater out of the question? I have had one of these for a couple of years. I've had zero problems. It's got a thermostat built in and puts out a ton of heat. And at $200 with free shipping, it's not all that expensive.

http://www.factorybuysdirect.com/pr...-125-00-175-000-btu-multifuel-model-pck175vt/

 

[bandaidmd]

i use a double burner radient heater on top of a 5 gallon lp tank to heat where im working not my entire pole barn.

 

[Showkey]

Is a torpedo heater out of the question? I have had one of these for a couple of years. I've had zero problems. It's got a thermostat built in and puts out a ton of heat. And at $200 with free shipping, it's not all that expensive.

http://www.factorybuysdirect.com/pr...-125-00-175-000-btu-multifuel-model-pck175vt/

Noise, CO and excessive water vapor ...........Kero model add stink and high cost of fuel.

 

[Catadj78]

Been there, done that. Raised our daughter while wife and I worked opposite shifts, she grew up in the garage with me, or I had a baby monitor in the garage while she took her afternoon nap. Did a lot of sitting in the house though when it was too cold to work in an unheated garage and it was below 0*F outside.

It's the sacrifices you make, which seems to be a foreign concept these days......

A buddy used to used a pair of 1200W hanging heaters in a 1-1/2 stall garage where he kept his stock car worked when it was REALLY cold out, but the room was insulated.
If you put up your listed heater and even put up some heavy plastic to keep the heat down below the ceiling you'll be able to get the chill off, but it's not gonna be cheap.

The wife and I thought we prepared properly prior to my boy getting here so she could quit work. Paid off everything but the house, etc. I make decent money but I'm considered contract labor so I pay my own expenses and no health benefits. Insurance rates went up way too much last month where she had to stay at her job where they pay most of our health insurance even though our deductible went up x10. I don't qualify for any subsidies. My work is seasonal (the easiest explanation) so my income varies sometimes drastically.

We chose for her to stay at work for now and me stay home with the boy while I'm off which is great especially when he gets older. I'm hoping to start some kind of part time business out of the shop to offset the insurance costs so she can stay home but I have to finish it and heat it as most of my off time is in the winter time. I work the summer months. Gone sometimes 4-5 months at a time depending on work.

Oh well, it'll be worth it.

 

[Catadj78]

Is a torpedo heater out of the question? I have had one of these for a couple of years. I've had zero problems. It's got a thermostat built in and puts out a ton of heat. And at $200 with free shipping, it's not all that expensive.

http://www.factorybuysdirect.com/pr...-125-00-175-000-btu-multifuel-model-pck175vt/

I got convection style propane heater out here now. It's in the high 20s outside now and it's 55 in my mezzanine area that has r30 on the ceiling now. I need more insulation for sure. Lol

 

[tdkkart]

The wife and I thought we prepared properly prior to my boy getting here so she could quit work. Paid off everything but the house, etc. I make decent money but I'm considered contract labor so I pay my own expenses and no health benefits. Insurance rates went up way too much last month where she had to stay at her job where they pay most of our health insurance even though our deductible went up x10. I don't qualify for any subsidies. My work is seasonal (the easiest explanation) so my income varies sometimes drastically.

Just hang in there for a few months longer, your health care savior is about to arrive..........

 

[Catadj78]

Just hang in there for a few months longer, your health care savior is about to arrive..........

Not sure how to take that.

 

[tdkkart]

Not sure how to take that.

About as far as I can go without running afoul of the "no politics" policy here.

 

[Catadj78]

About as far as I can go without running afoul of the "no politics" policy here.

 

[rburke65]

You should, at least, staple Visqueen across the ceiling members. This will help a lot in keeping your heat in the building. I have even pulled plastic sheeting out of construction dumpsters and used it. Good luck.

 

[Dick in Wisconsin]

You should, at least, staple Visqueen across the ceiling members. This will help a lot in keeping your heat in the building. I have even pulled plastic sheeting out of construction dumpsters and used it. Good luck.

Good idea. Good suggestion. Good place to start. The thicker the better.

 

[jekquist]

So here's a pic of my usage during the day when I was in the shop working. This is 3 almost 4 times my normal usage. Based on the kwh used and the going rate it cost me 11 or so dollars to run for 8 hrs. This is with using a 100kbtu kero torpedo too. Only using the kero when it cooled down to much. Only 1" foam board on the ceiling.

 

[Falcon67]

You're warming a lot of volume for a 17.5K BTU heater. And you need more insulation, and probably caulk to seal up the seams between the ceiling panels and the top of the walls. If air can move up past the panels, it really ***** the heat out of the building. When I caulked my OSB it made a noticeable improvement.

Is a torpedo heater out of the question? I have had one of these for a couple of years. I've had zero problems./QUOTE]

I bought a nice 30/60K propane fired unit a couple of years ago. Used it once, hate it. Would have sold it at the spring swap meet but forgot about it. They have their place, maybe outside somewhere. A dual burner Mr. Heater on a 30 lb tank with a floor fan makes as much heat without the stink and racket.

 

[Catadj78]

So I decided to try and heat the main shop area with a wood stove although I haven't gotten one yet. I did however purchase two of the electric heaters. I have only one hooked up at this time heating a 10x24 area that opens into the main shop area. It is 35 outside and 50 inside.

I have a 12x18 office area that I have 90% of the insulation completed and only a dual halogen light stand for light but puts off heat but it's 60 in there.


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