Electric Heat

[Kaikman]

Hi all! It's been a while since I've posted here but I now have a new build with an attached 3 - car garage I'm central Ohio. It's three years old, but progress to finish the insulation, drywall, and heat has been slow. I've finally completed the insulation and drywall is hung. I'm having a 100amp sub panel installed later this month to service my heat source, which will be forced air electric.

I want to place the heaters before sub panel installation and am thinking of hanging two 5000w units on the left back corner (third bay) and right back corner (first bay) of the garage for good coverage.

The garage is 32x23 or approximately 740 interior square ft. Two bays are 9'8" and the third bay has a vaulted ceiling to 18'. I will have a fan in the vaulted ceiling to move air.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this strategy and what heater manufacturers I should consider. Farenheat seems expensive - any specifics as to why? I've looked at King electric from Menards and Dyna glo from Lowe's, as alternatives. Also. Can I wire these to a thermostat?

Thanks!



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[mobetta]

I'm using a dynaglo pro 7500 for my secondary heat (24k mini split for 670sf 9' walls 12' vault,ceiling fan)

I just built the garage so I have no experience to share other than most units can be wired with a Line Voltage thermostats (theres already a relay in the unit) but it is not difficult to wire up a secondary relay and a 24v transformer & thermostat.

my parts for this are showing up today.

As this is my secondary heat source for in case the heat pump cant keep up during Polar Vortices we seem to get more often in these parts, I will use the "garage" thermostat that menards sells for $15- sets as low as 35F

another option for you would be a smart thermostat you can bump the heat from an APP.

have this option on my Mini split.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

My thought is you have chosen the most expensive way to heat anything and are setting yourself up for a disappointing future where you spend your days working in your garage in Carhardts, insulated gloves, and one of those funny hats the Russians wear, as you won't be able to afford to adequately heat your building without cubic yards of cold hard cash.

If you are looking for a full time heating solution, consider a heat pump or mini split as they will use 1/4 the electricity.

If you are looking at part time, a fuel burning solution will cost 1/2 to 1/4 the cost of electricity per hour of heated time in the garage.

Not your question I know....but maybe helpful???

Phil

 

[TuxThePenguin]

you won't be able to afford to adequately heat your building without cubic yards of cold hard cash.

depends how often he uses it

if he uses it a couple hours a week, a heat pump would likely never pay off (though having AC in the summer would be an added benefit)

if he uses it more often than his actual house, then I think you're correct

 

[BD1]

What is your location ? Is electric your only option ? Are you All electric in house ?
Some areas did have a reduced rate for all electric.


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[mobetta]

I do think in your climate you could use a mini split year round without a backup heater- provided you purchase the correct unit.

though the initial equipment cost would be a bit more, you would save some $$ immediately by not needing a 100amp sub panel and wiring for the 2 40 amp loads. you only need a 15 or 20 amp 220v circuit. Now if you still need a sub panel for other needs that changes the math, but a 60amp sub usually cuts it for most.

you would save money every time you used it- and with an attached garage keeping the space heate dyear round should help keep your dwelling more comfrotable as well.

 

[Hotsauce]

I'm using a dynaglo pro 7500 .

I just purchased online the same 7500W Dyna-Glo Pro - my garage is a pretty much fully insulated 20-20 with 9.5 foot ceilings. I priced out NG a reznor or Modine & with friends installing it, $2k-$3K CAD$ while the DG was $230

I don't spend a lot of time in the garage now but felt the tradeoff on initial investment vs incremental electrical heat costs was worth it. Based on our rates, every hour electric heat is blowing = $1.10

Just gotta figure out how to wire up a 240v source in the panel

 

[Kaikman]

My thought is you have chosen the most expensive way to heat anything and are setting yourself up for a disappointing future where you spend your days working in your garage in Carhardts, insulated gloves, and one of those funny hats the Russians wear, as you won't be able to afford to adequately heat your building without cubic yards of cold hard cash.

I do understand the cost involved with running electric heat, however I have a fairly well insulated, attached garage, with finished living space above two bays. Also, my intent is to keep it above 40 degrees at all times and crank it up to 55-60 when working, which will be a couple hours a night, 2 or 3 nights a week.

I had a quote from a local HVAC installer for a mini split and about had a heart attack. I need the sub panel anyway, so I might as well get the 100 amp to service the electric heaters plus a welder and lift in the future. I'm still looking at thousands less in install costs, and where I live I'm looking at probably never any more than 5 months of sub freezing cold weather, 3-4 months in most years.

Worst case, I dont like the electric heat, so I sell the heaters, open up room in my sub panel, and source a different heating option.

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[Kaikman]

What is your location ? Is electric your only option ? Are you All electric in house ?
Some areas did have a reduced rate for all electric.


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Central Ohio. Was quoted $5k for a mini split and I can care less about the AC, so <$1,500 for panel and electric heaters is much better since I plan to get the panel regardless of heat source.

 

[Kaikman]

The comment above wont let me complete my statement. I'm getting the panel anyway so might as well up it to a 100 amp, throw on a couple electric heaters and save a couple thousand up front. If they dont work out, I'll still need the panel, then I can explore other more expensive up front options.

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[Kaikman]

depends how often he uses it

if he uses it a couple hours a week, a heat pump would likely never pay off (though having AC in the summer would be an added benefit)

if he uses it more often than his actual house, then I think you're correct

Exactly. I'll be using it on a limited basis and being in central Ohio, we don't get many terribly cold months. Mini split quite was astronomical and I'm installing a sub panel anyway.

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[Randy in Maine]

You would need a timing light to read the electric meter.

 

[Kaikman]

You would need a timing light to read the electric meter.

Maybe in Maine.....

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[hector]

My long term plan is geothermal for both the house + garage.

My short term plan is a 50amp breaker to NEMA 14-50P installed in good proximity to one of the parking spaces. I'm going to use a 10kw portable salamander heater over the winter (2-3hrs a night a few times a week) while working on the garage.

Once I go geo the 14-50 is "future proof" for an EV down the road.

I find the expense of electric heat is often grossly overstated in these kind of discussions: 10kw heat 24X7 for 30 days = $0.072/kwh (average in my area which is apparently in top 5th most expensive in the USA per kwh) * 10kw * 720hrs = $518/mo. For a four month heating season that is $2072. To put it in perspective a 10kw heater run for 4 hrs a day would be $86 for the entire winter.

 

[yeldogt]

I had to heat my very well insulated studio last year with electric because of construction (no propane tank) -- 1700sf. The one cold month I figured it was around $150 -- we have .20 kw power. I did keep it a bit lower temp -- lower 60's.

The cost to do temp propane would have been more.

In all of my work spaces w/o radiant over the years .... hobby wood/metal/cars .. I have used a 220v electric in the mix. They work great for a faster heat up when you have a properly sized heater for maintaining .. Also - having an electric sending hot air to a work bench or desk area ...or any place where you don't work strenuously is a nice way to heat a larger space -- you zone where you are. The 220v 4000k farenheat are my go to units -- they have two temp settings and thermostat. I place them low so they send warm air along the floor

 

[WordMan]

I don't know how it is in Ohio, but in Tennessee, thanks to the TVA, electricity is downright cheap.

 

[yeldogt]

I don't know how it is in Ohio, but in Tennessee, thanks to the TVA, electricity is downright cheap.

That's the big factor ... electric is cheap to install, fast and hot. It all about the cost to run.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I get it...It's just a pay me now, pay me later thing.

2 X 5000W = 10,000W = 10KW.

When you go out there and increase your t-stat 'cause you are planning to work out there the units will kick on full and run some number of hours. The average rate in Ohio for power is just over 12 cents per KWH....so it'll run $1.20 per hour. Shoot, you can't buy a coke at McDonalds for $1.20....no big deal.

Course if your heaters run 20 percent of the time one month...that's $178.

If they run half the time in a really cold month, that's $432.

The minisplit idea doesn't work well for part time heat either....so I'd just say if it was me I'd be looking at either propane or natural gas. I'm fortunate that my home has NG so that's what I was able to do.

Phil

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't know why you don't think A/C is important, it gets hot here in Kansas in summer and I'm pretty sure it does there too!

To that end I bought a big window A/C with a heat strip (18,000 BTU heat, 25,000 A/C) for $600 off amazon and put it in my 600 sq ft shop/garage. I also have insulation and living quarters above, which does mitigate the temp changes somewhat. Coldest I've ever seen my shop is about 39* when it was in the 0-10*F range outside......of course when it's been that cold for a while all your tools and cars and stuff are also cold!

Point being it takes a while to warm up not just the environment but also everything in it.

The key to warming up the shop is air flow - those small 5000W heaters have fans in them but they really don't move any air - if you put them in the corners, only the corners will get warm. The A/C unit has variable fan speed and can take my cold garage from 39 to 60 in about 2 hours, tops.

The A/C works even better!

So, I would encourage you to look around a little more for a heat source...unless I run the heater every day it makes very little change in my electric bill, the A/C actually draws more power but I don't have to use it a lot in summer, just those really hot humid days, as the house A/C keeps it fairly temperate.

To me this was a simple, cost effective solution.

 

[hector]

I get it...It's just a pay me now, pay me later thing.

2 X 5000W = 10,000W = 10KW.

When you go out there and increase your t-stat 'cause you are planning to work out there the units will kick on full and run some number of hours. The average rate in Ohio for power is just over 12 cents per KWH....so it'll run $1.20 per hour. Shoot, you can't buy a coke at McDonalds for $1.20....no big deal.

Yeah, its like 2-3K per heating season to run 10KW of heat 100% 24x7. In Ohio probably 30% are degree days so that's an absolute worst case reality is probably 1-1.5K for the season. Or at least 10-12k for a quality split system with propane and 1-2K add'l for a buried tank. Probably 10 yrs+ before breaking even.

If someone is willing to spend 15K on a split they should carefully consider spending 25K on geothermal and get the 26% tax credit.

 

[u2slow]

Free/used baseboard heaters are just as efficient as any other electric resistive air heating. Often you can hook them up affordably with leftover wire and 2-pole breakers.

Watch your electric billing though... my first chunk is 8 cents/kWh, but then it kicks up to 14 cents. Any extra loads I add (hot tub, garage heat, etc) will be at the higher rate. No piped gas available here.

My cheapest heat option is wood.

 

[TuxThePenguin]

Course if your heaters run 20 percent of the time one month...that's $178.

If they run half the time in a really cold month, that's $432.

Nobody does this though (not even the 2 people who are going to directly reply to me and claim that they do this)

Most people are not in the garage for more than a few hours a week. Nobody is in the garage for an average of 12 hours a day. Or perhaps you were suggesting that some people leave their heat on even if they aren't in the garage? If so, they deserve that $432 bill. Hell, triple that, please.

It will take years for most people to pay off the cost difference of a heat pump and resistive. Maybe a year for some of you guys that do hang out in the garage more than average. Definitely worth a heat pump for some people (not arguing that at all). But the resistive heat is a good choice for plenty of people who only spend "some" time in the garage but not a ton of time.

But literally nobody should be paying $432 a month for it.

 

[Jagmandave]

The most my heat has cost in the winter is $20 additional to my bill, and because our electric bill really drops off in the winter it's just not enough to worry about. I am in my shop for up to 8 hours a day when I'm in the middle of a project, but I can't run the heat non stop as it gets too warm when I'm working hard.

Bottom line, I use it to get the chill off then shut it off for the bulk of the time and maybe pop it back on for a bit after lunch again.

BUT, I repeat, those little 220V heaters don't do **** in a shop that big.....my buddy put one over his workbench and all it does is warm the top of his head. You need to move the air and those just don't do it.

 

[Steve in UT]

I have one of these. Very nice, cheap, free shipping, well built, quiet and good reviews.

https://www.landmsupply.com/comfort...ic-utility-heater-with-remote-control-cz230er

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, The cost and practicality of electric heat will be determined by the amount of heat desired and the cost of energy.

My workshop is on a property with many Photovoltaic Panels and the heat requirements are minimal, so yes I have a 5KW heater in my workshop.

 

[RoadBeater]

I’m in central Ohio also, 24’x32’ attached garage with a 7500KW electric heater. R32 in ceiling. It’s really not that much add on the electric bill. Almost like running an extra load of laundry in the dryer. No stink, no fumes to worry about. Works for me for heating when I’m out there.

 

[shudog]

Howdy - I am in Cleveland suburbs, my house was built in early 90's with minimal to no insulation in the garage. 3 car attached garage. I am a garage snob and always working on something out there. I added some blown cellulose in the wall cavities and 14" of blown in the space above and put on nice insulated 2" garage doors. I also put in an electric heater that runs off a 30A circuit. King Electric Eco2S 500W

On all but the coldest/most windy days, the garage can stay a very comfortable 65* which is plenty to work on my projects or wash cars. I keep it set in winter at 55* and it cycles on & off a bit. If the garage floor slab was insulated/isolated from the perimeter and wall cavities were sealed better, I think it would be great.

I looked at doing a gas heater but considered the costs of running a gas line, plus the electric and an exhaust flue and it just wasn't something I wanted. I like the electric. It's a little bit noisy when it runs but not bad. I like that it's a dry heat also and helps circulate the air when the cars come in with snow on them.

Hope this helps!

 

[Bigbird]

I have one of these. Very nice, cheap, free shipping, well built, quiet and good reviews.

I have the 10,000 Watt version of this one on a 50 amp dedicated circuit. My garage is a 2-car with 10’ ceilings, conditioned space above and well insulated. Since I’m a weekend warrior with the occasional weeknight in my garage after my day job, this does the trick nicely and I dont get to use the space enough to make it cost prohibitive.

 

[Kaikman]

Thanks for all of the input! Again, I know other energy sources are available and I've entertained my options. I'm not asking for thoughts on electric heat vs. other sources. I'm doing electric because the installation costs plus my need/desire for a sub panel to power other things makes sense. And my usage as a work space will be limited to 10-15 hours per week.

My main issue is whether I should place my heaters as I've described in my original post, and what brands people are using and why.

Looks like a few of you have King, which is at the top of my list, especially since they have a version that's ready to be wired to a Nest thermostat.

Additionally, I've started to contemplate just going with a single 10K w unit at the back of the shop between the 2nd and 3rd bays, as it'll allow for just a 50a breaker instead of two 30a to power two 5k w units. I'll have a ceiling fan to move air in the vaulted ceiling and may mount a wall fan in one of the corners to assist with moving air horizontally.

My garage is insulated with r19 in the 2x6 walls and r38 in the ceiling. Doors are r9 but I plan to add some insulation to the back of them. This morning it was 29 outside and 49 in the garage-with the vaulted ceiling insulation still not finished.

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[Shop Specialties]

Thanks for all of the input! Again, I know other energy sources are available and I've entertained my options. I'm not asking for thoughts on electric heat vs. other sources. I'm doing electric because the installation costs plus my need/desire for a sub panel to power other things makes sense. And my usage as a work space will be limited to 10-15 hours per week.

My main issue is whether I should place my heaters as I've described in my original post, and what brands people are using and why.

Looks like a few of you have King, which is at the top of my list, especially since they have a version that's ready to be wired to a Nest thermostat.

Additionally, I've started to contemplate just going with a single 10K w unit at the back of the shop between the 2nd and 3rd bays, as it'll allow for just a 50a breaker instead of two 30a to power two 5k w units. I'll have a ceiling fan to move air in the vaulted ceiling and may mount a wall fan in one of the corners to assist with moving air horizontally.

My garage is insulated with r19 in the 2x6 walls and r38 in the ceiling. Doors are r9 but I plan to add some insulation to the back of them. This morning it was 29 outside and 49 in the garage-with the vaulted ceiling insulation still not finished.

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I have been using a Fahrenheat FUH54 for 6 years now in about the same size building. It is mounted on the back wall in the center blowing towards the doors. I keep it 45*-50* all Winter and the highest electric bill ever was $195. I have 2 poor windows and walk in door with less insulation so you should be fine with 1 heater.

 

[RoadBeater]

You should be fine with you be heater. I’ve got a 7.5 kw Berko heater bought it used about 15 years ago, no issues with it.

 

[annarad]

Hi all! It's been a while since I've posted here but I now have a new build with an attached 3 - car garage I'm central Ohio. It's three years old, but progress to finish the insulation, drywall, and heat has been slow. I've finally completed the insulation and drywall is hung. I'm having a 100amp sub panel installed later this month to service my heat source, which will be forced air electric.

I want to place the heaters before sub panel installation and am thinking of hanging two 5000w units on the left back corner (third bay) and right back corner (first bay) of the garage for good coverage.

The garage is 32x23 or approximately 740 interior square ft. Two bays are 9'8" and the third bay has a vaulted ceiling to 18'. I will have a fan in the vaulted ceiling to move air.

I'm interested in hearing thoughts on this strategy and what heater manufacturers I should consider. Farenheat seems expensive - any specifics as to why? I've looked at King electric from Menards and Dyna glo from Lowe's, as alternatives. Also. Can I wire these to a thermostat?

Thanks!



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I know this was a long time ago, but I am curious what you ended going with? I have heard of electric infrared heaters being used in garages, but not 100% sure how well they would fully heat the space. I have been going back and forth between a few companies and wanted to do some further research into the best option. I saw one on https://www.kalglo.com/, but you mentioned 5000W and wanted to see if you happened to go down that route or if less would've worked too. Sorry again, I know this post is 4 years later!

 

[Stuart in MN]

By design an infrared heater like the Kalglo is more for spot heating than fully heating the space, they point that out in their FAQ section. As long as you use them as designed they can still be a good choice - say you put one over your workbench, it will heat up the bench and you instead of wasting energy trying to heat the rest of the space where you're not standing.

 

[pcmeiners]

Annard, notice they do not mention electric efficiency of IR, because there is no difference between IR and resistance heating, both operating cost are ridiculous. If you can do a DIY minisplit install (easy), presently the average electric cost is 3.5x less than IR/resistance, high efficiency minisplits are slightly more than 4x less.
On the other hand if you have you have own your nuclear reactor, free maintenance, and a free fuel source, I would go IR or resistance heating.

 

[mike93lx]

I know this was a long time ago, but I am curious what you ended going with? I have heard of electric infrared heaters being used in garages, but not 100% sure how well they would fully heat the space. I have been going back and forth between a few companies and wanted to do some further research into the best option. I saw one on https://www.kalglo.com/, but you mentioned 5000W and wanted to see if you happened to go down that route or if less would've worked too. Sorry again, I know this post is 4 years later!

IR is for heating things, not spaces. They are great when you want to get heat to you without having to warm up the whole room. This is why they are used at places like the registers in a home depot. They can keep the cashiers and customers warm (relatively) despite having huge open doors

 

[chinboys]

Ceiling mounted electric radiant (infrared) in those areas where you plan on working wired to line voltage thermostats will quickly heat you and the "things" that are being targeted by the heaters.
You feel the warmth almost immediately... e.g. your face on a bright outdoor sunny day in the cold of winter.

 

[dcg9381]

Nobody does this though (not even the 2 people who are going to directly reply to me and claim that they do this)

Texas. Our "builder grade" heat pumps all **** for cold weather performance. Below about 25 degrees and they're on resistance heat. My highest electric bills all year are in months where we have more than 2 days below 27 degrees. And this is in a foam insulated house built with Zip-R sheeting.

I mean I get it (what the OP is doing) - he can do electrical easily and doesn't have to drop $5k on an commercially installed mini-split. That $5k will pay a LOT of power bills if he's just heating to 60 a few hours every week....

infrared does heat the "thing" - might be something to consider.