Electric Heating Recommendation

[schalliol]

Hi Everyone! First post here, and I look forward to getting into the community!

We're going to be building a detached garage that does not have natural gas access, and it can get into the negative single digits here in Indiana. The garage will serve also as a project space. Mostly we'll set the garage to heat to something like 50°, but we'd like to heat it up to be a comfy room-temperature space with a few hours of warning. We have plumbing in place to add a bathroom, which we may or may not do in the future.

I have attached an image of the plans, and the designer put a couple ceiling mounted heaters in a couple corners. This will be a pretty nice finished-looking space, and I'm wondering if you have recommendations for what to consider for what heaters to use (they can be in other locations). It would be great if they didn't stick out like a sore thumb. I would like to have them on an Internet-controlled thermostat, and I'd like to integrate it into our RTI automation system (currently use Aprilaire thermostats).

Can anyone offer suggestions? Thanks so much!!

 

[PoorUB]

30,000 BTU will heat it. Do you have attic space above? If you want something hidden a residential air handler and ducts up in the attic would be my first choice. Other wise the other choices are not as pleasing to look at. The typical square box electric heaters. Also if you go with electric heaters not many of them use a conventional thermostat so be aware of that when you buy heaters.

 

[Jagmandave]

I don't understand why they put electric heaters at the ceiling......heat rises and stays near the ceiling, why start it there? Why not start it lower?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Electric heat is usually cheap/easy to install, but it is the MOSEY EXPENSIVE form of heat to use.

 

[PoorUB]

I don't understand why they put electric heaters at the ceiling......heat rises and stays near the ceiling, why start it there? Why not start it lower?

Well, you are correct, but I sure don't want my heaters mounted near the floor taking up work space. That is the biggest reason I can think of.

My gas furnace and AC are mounted on the ceiling, out of the way. It opened up the floor space and made it a bit more flexible for benches and other storage.

 

[Firebrick43]

I don't understand why they put electric heaters at the ceiling......heat rises and stays near the ceiling, why start it there? Why not start it lower?

because for the most part people will do cheap and easy first. They don't think or care about long term cost/comfort

 

[paulsomlo]

I use electric radiant heating panels: https://www.sshcinc.com/

But this is a small workshop, about 10x20 - I've got 2kw worth, which is two 2' by 8' panels. The space has three uninsulated walls and costs me about $3/day to heat. If you go electric, insulate very well or be prepared for huge electric bills.

 

[Jagmandave]

Years ago in my shop at the lake we used a mobile home furnace, it was very small in foot print, and since the air flow is directed down and all the ducts run under a mobile home we raised it up on a simple frame of angle iron and ducted the air flow out across the floor, it worked extremely well and only took up a small area in the shop. Warm feet are nice!!!

It ran on propane too, fairly cost effective compared to electricity only.

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Electric resistance heat is the most expensive heat you can have. Modern inverter heat pumps can produce good useable heat down to below zero and only use a fraction of the electricity of conventional heat. If uses for the space will be clean a mini or multi split unit should do what you need. Alternatively you could use such a heat pump with a split system air handler that requires ductwork, but uses conventional furnace filters for easy maintenance.

 

[schalliol]

I've clearly come to the right place!!

30,000 BTU will heat it. Do you have attic space above? If you want something hidden a residential air handler and ducts up in the attic would be my first choice. Other wise the other choices are not as pleasing to look at. The typical square box electric heaters. Also if you go with electric heaters not many of them use a conventional thermostat so be aware of that when you buy heaters.

Yes, I have attic space above we plan to just have plywood put down on for storage or whatever. I like the idea of having it hidden. I guess I need to understand the trade-offs. I totally agree the typical square box heaters don't sound exciting.

Good points, Jagmandave and PoorUB. It's hard to know where the teat would come from, but too bad heat rises!

Electric heat is usually cheap/easy to install, but it is the MOSEY EXPENSIVE form of heat to use.

Yeah. That's why I don't intend to use it too much. Gas is on the other side of the property, and I know it would be super expensive to get it to the right location.

because for the most part people will do cheap and easy first. They don't think or care about long term cost/comfort

I'd like to have long-term cost to be reasonable and comfort. I think we can do a more expensive up-front installation if we can get a better long-term situation, although gas isn't an option. I'm concerned that I might get a system that wouldn't be able to heat up quickly enough to make it usable.

I use electric radiant heating panels: https://www.sshcinc.com/

But this is a small workshop, about 10x20 - I've got 2kw worth, which is two 2' by 8' panels. The space has three uninsulated walls and costs me about $3/day to heat. If you go electric, insulate very well or be prepared for huge electric bills.

I'll check these out. We'll definitely insulate

Years ago in my shop at the lake we used a mobile home furnace, it was very small in foot print, and since the air flow is directed down and all the ducts run under a mobile home we raised it up on a simple frame of angle iron and ducted the air flow out across the floor, it worked extremely well and only took up a small area in the shop. Warm feet are nice!!!

It ran on propane too, fairly cost effective compared to electricity only.

That sounds pretty cool.

 

[schalliol]

Electric resistance heat is the most expensive heat you can have. Modern inverter heat pumps can produce good useable heat down to below zero and only use a fraction of the electricity of conventional heat. If uses for the space will be clean a mini or multi split unit should do what you need. Alternatively you could use such a heat pump with a split system air handler that requires ductwork, but uses conventional furnace filters for easy maintenance.

Would be great to avoid the most expensive heat! I'm only experienced with gas furnaces. I'm not opposed to some ductwork and putting some kind of unit in the attic. Is that what you're suggesting? I would like to avoid having any outdoor systems beyond vents. Thanks!

 

[Yankeefarmer]

Well, an Air-to-air heat pump will require an outside unit, so if you’re opposed to one of them, it won’t work for you. Most people locate them on the backside out of site, and they look no different than what any house with central AC has.

 

[schalliol]

Well, an Air-to-air heat pump will require an outside unit, so if you’re opposed to one of them, it won’t work for you. Most people locate them on the backside out of site, and they look no different than what any house with central AC has.

Thanks! In this case, there's really not a good space for that. Bummer!

 

[schalliol]

Hmm, so the more I'm looking at this, the radiant heating panels paulsomlo mentioned sound really cool, but I'm not sure it would cut it to heat up quickly.

Since I have attic space, it seems like maybe the best call would be to get small residential electric furnace with ducts for this application? …unless infra-red makes sense. Hmm

 

[PoorUB]

You have attic space and want something hidden, or not intrusive at least so in my mind a residential electric air handler and some duct work would be the most eye pleasing way to go. You don't need to go crazy with ducts either, put the return(s) on one side of the room and 5-6 larger supply registers on the other side. I would consider a heat pump, or at least air conditioning too!

If you have natural gas on the property I would get a quote to run a line over. In the long run gas will less money to heat with. If you are at all able the contractor might work with you if you dig the trench and he installs the line you might save some money. Where I worked we had to rent or borrow a trencher so even a short run with the screwing around was half a day.

I just did a quick check on a fuel cost comparator I have. I pay 10 cents per KWH after adding in all the taxes and other charges, my natural gas is 75 cents a therm. Figuring a 95% gas furnace and an electric AHU at 100% efficiency the price per million BTU is $7.90 per million for gas, and $29.30 for electric so almost 4 times the price for electric. Bump up the electric rate to 12 cents and it is 4-1/2 times more than gas.

 

[schalliol]

If you have natural gas on the property I would get a quote to run a line over. In the long run gas will less money to heat with. If you are at all able the contractor might work with you if you dig the trench and he installs the line you might save some money. Where I worked we had to rent or borrow a trencher so even a short run with the screwing around was half a day.

Good thoughts!! Gas is completely on the other side of the house, so I think it's probably a non-starter without a lot of money and destruction. I hope we don't really need to heat it all that much because we're just in Indiana where we pretend to have winters relative to Fargo!

You have attic space and want something hidden, or not intrusive at least so in my mind a residential electric air handler and some duct work would be the most eye pleasing way to go. You don't need to go crazy with ducts either, put the return(s) on one side of the room and 5-6 larger supply registers on the other side. I would consider a heat pump, or at least air conditioning too!

We will have walk-up stairs with no doors to the attic, so I'm wondering if we'd even need a return. Hmm. Good stuff to think of. I don't think the garage will be getting all that hot, so we'll probably avoid doing AC. I guess I need to identify what a heat-only furnace would look like for this.

 

[PoorUB]

Good thoughts!! Gas is completely on the other side of the house, so I think it's probably a non-starter without a lot of money and destruction. I hope we don't really need to heat it all that much because we're just in Indiana where we pretend to have winters relative to Fargo!

Can you trench it in through the yard? Going through the house wold be bad with a finished basement, or no basement.

 

[paulsomlo]

Hmm, so the more I'm looking at this, the radiant heating panels paulsomlo mentioned sound really cool, but I'm not sure it would cut it to heat up quickly.

Since I have attic space, it seems like maybe the best call would be to get small residential electric furnace with ducts for this application? …unless infra-red makes sense. Hmm

I tend to leave mine on all the time, except when I'm away for more than a day. From a cold start, it takes a day to get back up to temp. But that's with three uninsulated brick walls and a bare concrete slab that present a large amount of thermal mass.

 

[Relax]

I don't understand why they put electric heaters at the ceiling......heat rises and stays near the ceiling, why start it there? Why not start it lower?

That's exactly the reason. By mounting them up high, they blow that warm air back down to reduce stratification. Saves from needing a ceiling fan in addition to a floor-mounted furnace. They also probably get some efficiency from heating warmer air.

 

[PoorUB]

That's exactly the reason. By mounting them up high, they blow that warm air back down to reduce stratification. Saves from needing a ceiling fan in addition to a floor-mounted furnace. They also probably get some efficiency from heating warmer air.

I don't agree other than moving the hot air off the ceiling. But the fan in the heater only runs while it is heating, so the air still rises and stratifies when the unit is off.
Also you will pull more BTU trying to heat cooler air that warmer air. As the indoor air temp get closer to the temperature of the heat exchanger the BTU's don't transfer and well.

 

[schalliol]

Can you trench it in through the yard? Going through the house wold be bad with a finished basement, or no basement.

We just won’t do gas. It would be too destructive and expensive to go all the way around the house, but we can do electric.

I tend to leave mine on all the time, except when I'm away for more than a day. From a cold start, it takes a day to get back up to temp. But that's with three uninsulated brick walls and a bare concrete slab that present a large amount of thermal mass.

Nice. I’m thinking I’d just set it to 50 degrees and have it heat when that’s needed. Then when we’d like to use it a bunch, crank it up with a little notice.