electric micro boilers?

[skidoo]

Hey guys,
Post# 2, took almost a year but I am finally ready to install my heat source.
A bit of info,
30x30 shop, slab on grade, 2" SM under slab, and all around perimeter of slab,
R22 spray foamed walls and 16" of blown in the attic. I ended up having more money in insulation then I do in concrete!!
I have 4 loops of 1/2 pex, all around 230-240ft, I have my expansion tank, taco air separator and a grundfos alpha pump, I also bought a line voltage thermostat with floor sensor.
Originally was going to go with a propane water heater but now am looking at one of the following:
Hydroshark 10kw, Seisco 11kw or does anyone know anything about Dettson electrical boilers?
http://dettson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Installation-manual-Hydra-Revolution-eng.pdf
They seem to have some nice features like pump control and exterior temp sensors but I really don't know much about heating systems.
Any thoughts? Anyone from Ontario Canada using an electric for a similar setup? If so, what kind of increase in your monthly electrical costs?
Great information on here. Thanks!!

 

[Highbeam]

Don't skip thermolec.

http://www.thermolec.com/en/products.aspx

My cost per btu is the same with propane as it is with electric resistance so I don't plan to mess with propane in the shop.

 

[skidoo]

Don't skip thermolec.

http://www.thermolec.com/en/products.aspx

My cost per btu is the same with propane as it is with electric resistance so I don't plan to mess with propane in the shop.

Thanks for the reply, what size is your shop and are you running a closed loop system? How cold is it where you're at?
cheers

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks for the reply, what size is your shop and are you running a closed loop system? How cold is it where you're at?
cheers

My shop is 1800 SF with 14 foot high walls. I have the walls finished with R19, the slab R10 with 1800 LF of pex, and the ceiling is only plastic VB until I can get the metal up. Plan to blow in R-30 or more cellulose.

Our temps get into the single digits for a few days at a time once or twice per winter but generally expect lows in the teens to 35 for the winter. The radiant in my shop will be for freeze protection with a secondary source, currently woodstove, to bump it up for comfort as needed.

You can get as many btus as you want from an electric boiler but you'll need heavy wiring for high output. No moving parts, 100% efficient, no flames, no chimney, no poison exhaust, less cost. There are some real benefits to electric boilers if the cost of electricity is decent in your area.

 

[bzinsky]

Hey guys,
Post# 2, took almost a year but I am finally ready to install my heat source.
A bit of info,
30x30 shop, slab on grade, 2" SM under slab, and all around perimeter of slab,
R22 spray foamed walls and 16" of blown in the attic. I ended up having more money in insulation then I do in concrete!!
I have 4 loops of 1/2 pex, all around 230-240ft, I have my expansion tank, taco air separator and a grundfos alpha pump, I also bought a line voltage thermostat with floor sensor.
Originally was going to go with a propane water heater but now am looking at one of the following:
Hydroshark 10kw, Seisco 11kw or does anyone know anything about Dettson electrical boilers?
http://dettson.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/Installation-manual-Hydra-Revolution-eng.pdf
They seem to have some nice features like pump control and exterior temp sensors but I really don't know much about heating systems.
Any thoughts? Anyone from Ontario Canada using an electric for a similar setup? If so, what kind of increase in your monthly electrical costs?
Great information on here. Thanks!!

if your using electric to heat the water, why wouldn't you just install resistance coils in the floors and get rid of all the plumbing. I mean it's already done now, but radiant floor heat with an electric water heater sounds like a bad idea, no cost savings at all and overly complicated. Might as well just bought a resistance space heater.

Just a thought, you could use the plumbing to feed a basic geothermal system. Would be cheap to just maintain the garage above freezing temps all winter long and reduce cost of resistance heat when you plan on working in it.

Would certainly be nice for things you store in the garage.

Should make geothermal relatively easy as you are only heating a garage. I think it gets a lot more complicated when you need 1000's of feet of tubing in the ground and if you're using a heat exhanger.

You could have a real basic system of just one closed loop system, no heat exchanger, nothing. The only electric would be the circulating pump, which you could just leave on the entire winter.

I have not figured out yet how to easily get a piece of tube 30+ feet into the earth.

Maybe a just use like 6 foot sections of pipe, bang it in, connect the next piece, bang it in, not sure if that would work lol.

Maybe do the same with some sort of drill bit and diy extensions.

 

[skidoo]

if your using electric to heat the water, why wouldn't you just install resistance coils in the floors and get rid of all the plumbing. I mean it's already done now, but radiant floor heat with an electric water heater sounds like a bad idea, no cost savings at all and overly complicated. Might as well just bought a resistance space heater.

Just a thought, you could use the plumbing to feed a basic geothermal system. Would be cheap to just maintain the garage above freezing temps all winter long and reduce cost of resistance heat when you plan on working in it.

Would certainly be nice for things you store in the garage.

Should make geothermal relatively easy as you are only heating a garage. I think it gets a lot more complicated when you need 1000's of feet of tubing in the ground and if you're using a heat exhanger.

You could have a real basic system of just one closed loop system, no heat exchanger, nothing. The only electric would be the circulating pump, which you could just leave on the entire winter.

I have not figured out yet how to easily get a piece of tube 30+ feet into the earth.

Maybe a just use like 6 foot sections of pipe, bang it in, connect the next piece, bang it in, not sure if that would work lol.

Maybe do the same with some sort of drill bit and diy extensions.

No natural gas around me and was originally going to do a propane water heater or boiler but last winter the prices for propane in Ontario almost doubled. Found a heating cost calculator online and the price difference ended up being a few hundred bucks a year more for electric. I actually thought it would be simpler than propane too. 3 wires to connect, no venting, condesate drains etc.

 

[bzinsky]

No natural gas around me and was originally going to do a propane water heater or boiler but last winter the prices for propane in Ontario almost doubled. Found a heating cost calculator online and the price difference ended up being a few hundred bucks a year more for electric. I actually thought it would be simpler than propane too. 3 wires to connect, no venting, condesate drains etc.

few hundred bucks is a lot! Especially for a reoccurring cost.
in my opinion it would be well worth looking at other options. I know you ran the lines but personally I'd ditch the radiant floor heat.

Not that you're looking for financial advice, but something I personally do to help me make decisions like this, it makes it easier to go the extra mile to save money, figure out what I saved, and purchase a luxury item such as a new sofa or a new TV with money I saved.

You could also use the electric radiant floor heat to just maintain 40 degrees and some cheapo electric heaters to kick on when your working in there. That way you don't have to keep the slab at 80 degrees all winter long.

 

[Highbeam]

I disagree, many folks use electric for heating water in radiant floors. Several reasons, cheaper up front cost and often cheaper fuel costs. Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient and so are electric boilers. The difference is that the hot air from a heater will rise away and you feel cold, heated slab stays put. You will waste more btu with an electric forced air heater.

 

[jlckmj]

but personally I'd ditch the radiant floor heat.

The above quote sounds like it comes from a man that has never felt the advantages of radiant heat!

Jim

 

[skidoo]

The above quote sounds like it comes from a man that has never felt the advantages of radiant heat!

Jim

Ya, I figure if I'm lying on the floor under a car, it'll be like going to the spa... nice heated floor for my broken old bones.

 

[tdkkart]

Ya, I figure if I'm lying on the floor under a car, it'll be like going to the spa... nice heated floor for my broken old bones.

Well, it won't be THAT warm, more like 5* above your ambient temp, but a 60* beats the hell out of a 20* floor any day.

 

[tdkkart]

I disagree, many folks use electric for heating water in radiant floors. Several reasons, cheaper up front cost and often cheaper fuel costs. Electric resistance heaters are 100% efficient and so are electric boilers. The difference is that the hot air from a heater will rise away and you feel cold, heated slab stays put. You will waste more btu with an electric forced air heater.

Electric resistance heat in a shop is a LOT safer than open flame. I don't have to worry about a leaky gas tank or fuel line taking out my entire shop.

 

[Slingshot Engage]

did you ever decide on a boiler?

 

[skidoo]

did you ever decide on a boiler?

hey hulkster, I ended up buying a dettson 15kw modulating boiler.
http://www.dettson.ca/en/products/hydra-revolution/
Was considering propane but with last years fluctuating prices and the issues of gas line permits, install, condensate drains, open flame, venting etc. I just went the easy way.
Pretty neat features like built in pump control, 20 second post flow feature, outdoor reset sensor.
Most of the time when I've looked at it, duty cycle is either off or 30-50%.
Has been costing me about 3-4$ a day with slab at 21c and outside temps -5 to -15c.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Nice looking installation ! Have you thought about adding additional fiberglass insulation ? -15C is pretty darn cold !

The P/T valve (top left) should have a pipe down to less than 15cm off the floor so that if it does open, it is not spraying all over.

What is the green hose for ?

 

[Rickcnc]

nice setup.. do you really need 15KW for your 900 sq ft ..
How large is the breaker?
Care to share the cost of the boiler?

 

[skidoo]

Nice looking installation ! Have you thought about adding additional fiberglass insulation ? -15C is pretty darn cold !

The P/T valve (top left) should have a pipe down to less than 15cm off the floor so that if it does open, it is not spraying all over.

What is the green hose for ?

Hi, the pressure overflow extension is on my to do list, along with building a better bracket to support some of the weight.
Green hoses are fill/bleed hoses.
Just kept filling from the right valve until no more air bubbles came out of left hose.

 

[skidoo]

nice setup.. do you really need 15KW for your 900 sq ft ..
How large is the breaker?
Care to share the cost of the boiler?

Breaker is 60amp, wired with 6-3 copper
Maybe overkill at 15kw, but this boiler had some features I liked, and it's a modulating boiler, so it only fires up what it needs. Cost me about 1000$ cdn.
If they ever bring natural gas to my street I would probably change.