Electric Oil pump, small

[MBfreak]

Hey guys.
My Profila 1K62 lathe is a real gem, but noisy. The most disturbing noise is from the oil pump, a piston pump activated by an oval cam and lever, 12 strokes a second.
Like the rest of the lathe it is built like the proverbial outhouse. I replaced the pump with a standard submersible electric fuel pump. Worked like a charm , but after around 20 service hours it broke. Could not cope with the higher viscosity of oil cf gas. Splines in pump wheel stripped.

Some pics attached.

Does anybody have an idea what would work?? Preferably a submersible unit and has to be quite small.( max diameter 1 3/8". Very low pressure and 2-3 gallons a minute more than enough.

Best regards

Ola

 

[larry_g]

Just what is the noise from? Is it the pumping action or the mechanical action of the rocker and some clearances clacking? I would assume that some one has set it up so there is clearance in the rocker arm like you would have in an automotive rocker with solid lifters. I would assume that could run with zero clearance to even a bit of preload.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[MBfreak]

The noise comes from the very heavy plunger which on each spring loaded return stroke moves slower than the spring loaded lever. When the two meets at the next fwd stroke of the lever there is a pronounced bang. 12 times a second. Putting in stronger return spring is not a neat design, will probably overload the lever mechanism. Metal fragments in the gearbox is a no no. The fromt spindle bearing is very expensive, easy to replace but very difficult to adjust. And the adjustment is perfect ( 0,003mm runout) and I want to keep it like that.
The beat is as steady as James Jamerson playing Fender P Bass or Bongo Brown on congas for Motown in the Funk Brothers , but not at all as pleasing

It is a well known Profila design shortcoming. The solution in Russia is an externally mounted AC driven oil pump ( gear-type) plumbed into the spindle geaarbox oil circuit.

I may have to resort to that, but would much prefer an internally mounted 12 V pump. Have found several, but they are either too big or rated only for 30 minutes between each long cool down.

A dry sump scavenging pump will not fit, just too big

Ola

 

[larry_g]

One of our machines had a hard stop against a set (grub) screw. We drilled the end of the set screw and put in a piece of round urethane belting and it cut the impact noise a bunch.

http://www.fennerdrives.com/eagle/ This is the belting that was used.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[kbs2244]

sounds like a cam that is out of time.
Is there any kind of adjustment?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

If you just want an oil pump....Ask some of the Ford guys. It seems a while back I was at a now departed buddy's shop and he had some late model Ford POS that had a belt driven oil pump behind the front cover. use that type of pump or take a SB Chevy oil pump, direct drive it with a small motor and send the oil where you want it to go.

 

[kerrynzl]

Shur-Flo They use them in RV's

And for gearbox and diff oil coolers

 

[Steve from Socal]

I don't think you will find a gear/vane type pump in the form factor you seek. I have a Showa gear pump I use on my 13EE as a lube pump. I have used de-ice pumps as lube pumps on motorcycles, they are 12/24V DC but not that small either.

Look on ebay for Bijur or Showa oil pumps, they come in many sizes and voltage. Unless you have some compelling reason use an AC pump, far more options.

Steve

 

[sberry]

I will have to get a pic, it came from some kind of oil burner maybe but is a little 1/4 port deal with electric motor, about 2 or 3 gpm and have moved all kind of fluid inc drain oil. Whoops, had a pic.

 

[MBfreak]

sberry

Your pic is exactly what I would like to have.
Have looked at the oil pumps used by the racing guys for turbos and rear axles. Great, submersible, 12V but costs around $350.

So an external pump would be just great.

As to making the present camlever plunger pump silent, this is a dead end. Even the russian guys who are very clever at making do with just a little have given up.
Some use a fuel oil pump from a oil burner, great, lasts forever but unobtainable in Sweden. Nobody uses oil burner to heat the house here since 15 years and searching for old units gave no result. All shredded.

Here is a pic what happened to a fuel pump after some 20 hours. The drive coupling was pressed on a splined 1/8" drive shaft. Oil overloaded the pump mechanics. The DC motor spun nice, but no pumping whatsoever.

Ola

 

[fergus]

How about a recirculating water pump? Its what a lot of guys use at home on biodiesel processors.

https://www.zoro.com/taco-hot-water...gclid=CNGVofTQhdECFcVcfgod5-0P8g&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

[Pacha]

Maybe you can modify the mechanical pump with a direct drive and no spring by using a sliding block as the old triumph motorcycles did for the dry sump oil system.

 

[gungatim]

I second the old used oil pump from a car. get an old SBC pump from the junk yard, add a pulley or motor of some sort, fab a manifold for the output and put in a softer spring for the pressure relief. maybe not the prettiest setup but it will last forever, submersible, and dirt cheap...

 

[JamieK]

How about something like this? May be more than you would like to spend, but probably would last forever.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Perfo...o-Rear-Bronze-12V-Gear-Oil-Pump-/111742238776

 

[MBfreak]

Jamie K
The pump you show would be a dream, and the cost is OK.
However, in Europe the go for about $300 which is too much AND a rip off.

But thanks for the tip, looks wonderful

Ola

 

[JamieK]

Well, the seller in the above link does ship internationally!

 

[gsloan]

How about an old automotive power steering pump?

 

[TheEquineFencer]

How about an old automotive power steering pump?

 

[sberry]

I use mine for oil and tire brine. I don't remember exactly what it came from, I believe some kind of waste oil burner maybe, It was wired wrong and I added a switch and turned it in to slim profile with handle and it stores on shelf.
Its about the same pump as the one above, after brine I flush with water and shoot a little spray in it.

 

[crerus75]

MBFreak,

I wonder if an older Bosch fuel injection pump will work. I have a Bosch 0580254996 pump which was used on older Volvo 240 and 262 with K-Jetronic fuel injection. I've used it to pump used oil, ATF, old gasoline, mineral spirits-- pretty much everything. It is a tough pump from the days when Bosch over-built their fuel pumps.

In fact, many of the older Bosch fuel pumps would probably work. They are large (about the size of a soda can) and they're not meant to be submerged (although I HAVE submerged them before), but they are bulletproof with low current draw. The Bosch 0580254979 is about 150 Euros. If you can find a used one, you might have a very inexpensive solution.

If you're searching for Bosch part numbers, it helps to split the part number up. For example, search for 0580254996 and also for "0 580 254 996". They are listed both ways and you get more results by searching for both.

 

[MBfreak]

Hi,
after the coupling broke on the fuel pump ( bosch-style, the media passes thru the motor part before exiting on the HPside) I went ahead to reinstall the original good but noisy plungerpump.

The oil had turned black! Befor my test, it was the color of honey.
Full with microscopic black particles, probably carbon particles and burned oil( from the sparks on the commutator). So, a fuel pump unit which cools the motor part is a dead end for recirculating oil in a gearbox.

For those who value the concept of " useless knowledge" read on. An interesting way to produce acetylene is to establish an electric arc in oil.
Sometimes the consequences are really spectacular.Have seen a 320 MVA transformer in generating plant blow up, split and catch on fire. 80 tonnes of oil makes a really big fire and is more or less impossible to put out.

Ola