Electric pulsing?

[Jsf721]

I wish I could attach a video.

The electric in my first floor has a weird issue. Not the whole house just down stairs (slab level)

Flipped the switch on in the bathroom and the one bulb pulses as does the exhaust fan. Light dimmer then brighter and exhaust fan motor same thing. Slower to faster.

Lights flicker in adjacent room. Not all the time but 30% for sure.

Any ideas?

 

[cgrutt]

Are they LED lights? Check for moisture at switch. Just had similar thing happen while I was removing wallpaper. Water on wall didn't play nice with the dimmer all the lights were flashing like a strobe light. Not sure if same would happen to fan or not but if its on a dimmer maybe.

 

[kbuhagiar]

I wish I could attach a video.

The electric in my first floor has a weird issue. Not the whole house just down stairs (slab level)

Flipped the switch on in the bathroom and the one bulb pulses as does the exhaust fan. Light dimmer then brighter and exhaust fan motor same thing. Slower to faster.

Lights flicker in adjacent room. Not all the time but 30% for sure.

Any ideas?

Is it a rythmic pulsing? Does it happen only at certain times of the day?
Is the entire house/dwelling/structure fed out of the same circuit panel, or are there separate feeds for upstairs and downstairs?

 

[Jsf721]

Are they LED lights? Check for moisture at switch. Just had similar thing happen while I was removing wallpaper. Water on wall didn't play nice with the dimmer all the lights were flashing like a strobe light. Not sure if same would happen to fan or not but if its on a dimmer maybe.

Thanks -there is no dimmer but the area was just freshly painted within 24 hours.

 

[Jsf721]

Is it a rythmic pulsing? Does it happen only at certain times of the day?
Is the entire house/dwelling/structure fed out of the same circuit panel, or are there separate feeds for upstairs and downstairs?

Just happening badly on lower level, a tiny bit in my kitchen but nowhere as bad.

I am not sure what circuit feeds what. Yes its rymithic pulsing when its happening

 

[cgrutt]

Thanks -there is no dimmer but the area was just freshly painted within 24 hours.

Could be moisture related as paint was drying. Did they remove faceplates on switches? Possibly got paint in switch box? Loose connection?

 

[Jsf721]

Could be moisture related as paint was drying. Did they remove faceplates on switches? Possibly got paint in switch box? Loose connection?

That I can check tonight. Not sure wife was in charge of the job ( I kid you - she just let them in)

 

[wssix99]

Some cheap appliances (like one I have made in China) do this and affect circuits where the lights share the same circuit as the outlets where the appliance is plugged in.

When the bad appliance is removed or turned off, everything is fine. Other circuits in the house that are isolated from lighting fixtures don't have the same problem.

You might try some trial and error and see if you have a similar culprit.

 

[rlitman]

...
Flipped the switch on in the bathroom and the one bulb pulses as does the exhaust fan. Light dimmer then brighter and exhaust fan motor same thing. Slower to faster...

It's normal for voltage harmonics to visibly flicker LED lights. Also, it's normal for a high resistance connection to make this show up in an LED light (as was insinuated about a possible faulty switch). LED lights are VERY sensitive. It is NOT normal for the same to be audible in a motor such as your fan. Motors can pick up voltage fluctuations, but it takes a much bigger difference than a light.

I'm pretty certain you have some rhythmic load that's causing voltage to drop across a bad connection. Maybe a refrigerator on the same circuit and a problem with the circuit breaker (or really anything along the circuit)? If the affected lights in the adjacent room are on a different circuit, are they on the same leg?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Are they LED lights? Check for moisture at switch. Just had similar thing happen while I was removing wallpaper. Water on wall didn't play nice with the dimmer all the lights were flashing like a strobe light. Not sure if same would happen to fan or not but if its on a dimmer maybe.

a fan motor would not go on a dimmer

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Some cheap appliances (like one I have made in China) do this and affect circuits where the lights share the same circuit as the outlets where the appliance is plugged in.

When the bad appliance is removed or turned off, everything is fine. Other circuits in the house that are isolated from lighting fixtures don't have the same problem.

You might try some trial and error and see if you have a similar culprit.

yeah i used to have a coffee maker that did this (Keurig). it would cause the lights to pulse when it was heating water.

new K cup machine (made by ninja) does not do this. I think the heating elements or setup is different.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's normal for voltage harmonics to visibly flicker LED lights. Also, it's normal for a high resistance connection to make this show up in an LED light (as was insinuated about a possible faulty switch). LED lights are VERY sensitive. It is NOT normal for the same to be audible in a motor such as your fan. Motors can pick up voltage fluctuations, but it takes a much bigger difference than a light.

I'm pretty certain you have some rhythmic load that's causing voltage to drop across a bad connection. Maybe a refrigerator on the same circuit and a problem with the circuit breaker (or really anything along the circuit)? If the affected lights in the adjacent room are on a different circuit, are they on the same leg?

Ive heard of front load washers doing this because they have VFDs and 3 phase motors.

 

[cgrutt]

a fan motor would not go on a dimmer

I meant if it was connected to same device as the light dimmer and stated wasn't sure if the moisture would affect fan circuit. Here's one example.

 

[Jsf721]

It's normal for voltage harmonics to visibly flicker LED lights. Also, it's normal for a high resistance connection to make this show up in an LED light (as was insinuated about a possible faulty switch). LED lights are VERY sensitive. It is NOT normal for the same to be audible in a motor such as your fan. Motors can pick up voltage fluctuations, but it takes a much bigger difference than a light.

I'm pretty certain you have some rhythmic load that's causing voltage to drop across a bad connection. Maybe a refrigerator on the same circuit and a problem with the circuit breaker (or really anything along the circuit)? If the affected lights in the adjacent room are on a different circuit, are they on the same leg?

The bathroom light is not LED (lol) Its a candelabra bulb and old school. I will play around with other things that may be on the same circuit and see if that helps. If I do, what's the fix. No new appliances and this is a new issue.

 

[Jsf721]

Ive heard of front load washers doing this because they have VFDs and 3 phase motors.

I do have a front loader. Its not new but I will see if it happen when its off

 

[paulsomlo]

You don't live in Hawkins, do you?

 

[PCustoms]

Ive heard of front load washers doing this because they have VFDs and 3 phase motors.

When my washer agitates (it doesn't have an agitator, so it cycles direction) the dining room lights flicker to the sequence.

The Mr. Cool will make the dinning room and bathroom vanity "Pulse".

Seems the cheap bulb/driver don't like the harmonics.

 

[larry4406]

Ive heard of front load washers doing this because they have VFDs and 3 phase motors.

This is very much real. It has become a common problem at our new homes.

Customer installs a new washer dryer set after movein, and suddenly there is light flicker that is now our problem and they are convinced that their machine couldn't be the problem, its clearly faulty electrical, the house is gonna burn down, and what are you gonna do about it?!

Some of the modern refrigeration equipment uses inverter motors that are also noisy as are some mini-splits.

Our electricians have been wiring the lighting circuits 100% separate from outlet or other appliance circuits for this reason. The problem then is that is common to feed a fart fan from the same circuit that feeds the bath light as they share the same switch box. Some of the fart fans cause this problem. I had a house with Broan fart fans where this cropped up and narrowed it down to the hall bath. I replaced the fan cartridge with one from another house, and the problem went away (tossed the noisy one in the dumpster).

 

[Jsf721]

You don't live in Hawkins, do you?

nope

 

[BillK]

If this is something that just started then what has changed recently ?? Have you used a voltmeter on one of the outlets to see if the voltage is pulsing ?

If the exhaust fan motor is pulsing the voltage almost has to be doing the same thing. An appliance should not affect that.

 

[American Locomotive]

I've seen washing machines (both new and old do this, not just front loaders). LED lights are definitely more sensitive to the fluctuations than older incandescent bulbs. As wyliesdiesels said, I've seen Keurigs do this, too. Older Keurigs (maybe new ones, too?) pulse a big heating element on/off at a low frequency - like 3-5hz, which causes a very noticeable and harsh flicker in lights.

​

 

[wyliesdiesels]

When my washer agitates (it doesn't have an agitator, so it cycles direction) the dining room lights flicker to the sequence.

interesting

I have an LG top loader without the agitator (just has the bottom base that spins independently of the tub) and it doesnt case lights to flicker. they must have better VFDs and line filtering than other brands

 

[u3b3rg33k]

Ive heard of front load washers doing this because they have VFDs and 3 phase motors.

I do have a front loader. Its not new but I will see if it happen when its off

Mine does this - I have a couple LEDs that flicker when it spins (same circuit). but mind you washer motor drives are permanent magnet (which is a "quieter" drive than a typical 6 pulse + IM) and a ****-ton of filtering. IIRC most washers won't insta-trip a GFCI, which a regular VFD absolutely will.

 

[ehcsrop]

Still, washers are more known for this than any other appliance. Once you eliminate the obvious, there is a whole page here of suggestions to work through. But the one is always the first one to eliminate. I have not heard of coffee makers doing this even though they switch on and off when keeping hot. I would not call that a pulse. I hope it's that simple.

I have not had experience with electrical harmonics but systematically unplugging all corded devices one at a time might find a unique problem. I have seen on a regular basis while lurking here that @rlitman often posts the most detailed posts with lots of information. That having been said, there are a couple other here that I recognize as being right 99.9% of the time.

To prove out the LED theory I'd remove those and replace with incandescent for a test. Wouldn't a fart fan motor have enough inertia to not be detected as pulsing? The light portion, yes. What is the timing of the pulsing? If you time the washer when agitating and they compare, IDT you need to go further.

My last point is I do a lot of property maintenance and I have not had any problems with wet paint, or dry paint for that matter. Pretty sloppy painting to even think about it. And in my experience a loose connection does not pulse rhythmically, but it will certainly cause flickering. So a detailed description of the pulsing will help.

 

[rmanrman]

You most likely have a bad connection or defective switch after excessive moisture when the room was painted.
Please call an electrician fast there may be arching going on in the switch box.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

I have not heard of coffee makers doing this even though they switch on and off when keeping hot. I would not call that a pulse

The keurig coffee makers do indeed do this. Ive seen it. They dont keep anything hot because they dont brew a pot of coffee. They pulse heat the water when brewing and pushing the hot water thru the plastic cup

 

[rlitman]

The keurig coffee makers do indeed do this. Ive seen it. They dont keep anything hot because they dont brew a pot of coffee. They pulse heat the water when brewing and pushing the hot water thru the plastic cup

Exactly. Same with a lot of tankless water heating systems. I have Toto washlets that cause the lights in the bathroom to blink when you sit down as they pulse heat into the heating block.

 

[ehcsrop]

The keurig coffee makers do indeed do this. Ive seen it. They dont keep anything hot because they dont brew a pot of coffee. They pulse heat the water when brewing and pushing the hot water thru the plastic cup

That they do, I have one. I did not realize all that warm up time wasn't getting the water to de dispensed hot enough w/o further heating. But it lasts 7 to 10 seconds while pouring. Is this the problem? The OP didn't give that many details, frequency or duration. He just said "rhythmic." That could be the intro to a disco song. My Keurig buzzes while pumping up or pumping out I'd say 40-50 cycles/second or Hz. My laundry lights which have a combo of LED and incandescent pulse with the washer agitation, somewhere around 1-2 pulses/second. Big difference as I doubt I could see anything up in the 40 Hz frequency.

Don't know about the VFD. For the record it's a 10 YO Kenmore Series 300. But from the start of the spin cycle to the highest speed the lights are steady.

Tell me more about "electrical harmonics" and how that is sustained. I know cold fluorescents flicker I assume at 60Hz. Saturdays on an electrical forum, fun.

 

[Jsf721]

I have a sparky come in and there was arching at the bus bar in the Pannel. Do not ignore these types of issues. Could have caused a fire. Abandoned the location and all is good.

 

[mm08822]

Interesting that this happened on a 15/20 A branch circuit. Not too common at a circuit breaker as compared to ac and oven/dryer circuits with much higher loads. More common at a loose connection on a daisy-chained receptacle.
So what you experienced was a voltage drop due to a an unplanned/unexpected high resistance voltage drop that was amplified with downstream loads varying their current as part of the designed operation.

Hopefully, sparky checked other buss stab/cb connections while in the panel.

 

[Bert_]

Probably aluminum buss. They are bad about doing this

 

[wyliesdiesels]

What is the Make/model on the panel? Any pics?

 

[Jsf721]

What is the Make/model on the panel? Any pics?

No pics but you could see a small intermittent spark between the left and right rows of breakers.

I can check brand in the AM. He did check other circuits

 

[CoogarXR]

I had a breaker arcing, I posted pics of it here (about halfway through the post):

https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/threads/what-maintenance-repair-did-you-do-inside-your-house-today.513421/post-11111015

It was my water heater (and pretty much everything else in the basement) breaker. I only noticed it because the breaker box is in the kitchen, right at ear-level, and I heard it crackling when I walked past.