Electric raceway or gutter needed for 100amp

[Don1357]

I need to move my house electric service panel about 8 feet. It handles 100 amps (200 amps going into the property, previously I stole 100 amps for the workshop). The plan is to pull all the cables into a surface mounted box and from there raceway/gutter them to the electric panel.

Question: what sort of raceway/gutter do I need to handle 100amps. Both the feeder cable and the smaller household romex cables will be in the raceway. Also, would it be kosher to build the raceway out of wood?

This is in Alaska, I don't need a permit to do this but I want to make sure the house doesn't burn down.

 

[PCustoms]

Interior or exterior?

I assume you are extending the circuits?

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Wood is combustible. Would not be code compliant

 

[mm08822]

How about some pics?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Would is combustable. Would not be code compliant

Can you lay THHN in a open raceway/gutter assuming the raceway is installed "near" the ceiling ?

 

[sparky 1971]

If it's inside

www.nvent.com/en-us/hoffman/products/enca8896t1t

If it's outside

www.nvent.com/en-us/hoffman/products/enca8896rt

 

[Norcal]

If service entrance cables will be in the gutter, other cables cannot share it

 

[sparky 1971]

If service entrance cables will be in the gutter, other cables cannot share it

It looks like he has a 100 amp feeder off of a 200 amp service, but will admit to not knowing what the stolen 100 amps is for sure.

 

[Don1357]

Sorry for the delay responding; too many projects not enough time...

Interior or exterior?

I assume you are extending the circuits?

This is Indoors. The panel needs to move about 8 feet in a utility room. Above where the panel is I'm putting an electric box where the patching happens and then raceway/gutter them over to the new location.

Wood is combustible. Would not be code compliant.

Not arguing with you just wondering; every single Romex cable going through a wall is in wood.

If it's inside

www.nvent.com/en-us/hoffman/products/enca8896t1t

If it's outside

That seems gigantic to me (8"x8"). Does it need to be that big?

If service entrance cables will be in the gutter, other cables cannot share it

This right here is great to know. It is easy enough to install its own conduit for the feeder cable to run along the raceway/gutter.

 

[sparky 1971]

That seems gigantic to me (8"x8"). Does it need to be that big?

Change the 8's in the part number to 6's. I don't know if they make a 6X6X96, I've never used one.

 

[PCustoms]

Sorry for the delay responding; too many projects not enough time...


This is Indoors. The panel needs to move about 8 feet in a utility room. Above where the panel is I'm putting an electric box where the patching happens and then raceway/gutter them over to the new location.

What feeds the panel?

I most cases around here, there is a meter on the outside and then a short length of cable (seu/ser) feeding the panel.

A few thoughts:

1. You might run into a length issue. Codes are vague/varying, but it's best to reduce the length of unfused wire inside your house
2. You may need an exterior disconnect due to #1
3. Can you just pull new cable from the outside into the panel? Then you'd only have branch circuits in the chase/gutter

 

[theoldwizard1]

Can you lay THHN in a open raceway/gutter assuming the raceway is installed "near" the ceiling ?

If it's inside

www.nvent.com/en-us/hoffman/products/enca8896t1t

That is NOT an open raceway !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I need to move my house electric service panel about 8 feet. It handles 100 amps (200 amps going into the property, previously I stole 100 amps for the workshop). The plan is to pull all the cables into a surface mounted box and from there raceway/gutter them to the electric panel.

Question: what sort of raceway/gutter do I need to handle 100amps. Both the feeder cable and the smaller household romex cables will be in the raceway.

Just use the appropriate size conduit.

Bending large diameter EMT is difficult without the correct tools. Use elbows.
OR
Flexible conduit. It does not have to be waterproof (Seal Tight). Just make sure it is the proper diameter and properly support along the run.

 

[sparky 1971]

That is NOT an open raceway !

WTF does that have to do with anything, including this thread? Where is an open raceway mentioned other than your post, which as typical for you, has nothing to do with the question? Read the title to the thread slowly. Electric raceway or gutter for 100 amp and a gutter (or trough) is exactly what I posted. An open raceway is generally referred to as a cable tray.

 

[sparky 1971]

Just use the appropriate size conduit.

Bending large diameter EMT is difficult without the correct tools. Use elbows.
OR
Flexible conduit. It does not have to be waterproof (Seal Tight). Just make sure it is the proper diameter and properly support along the run.

Running a bunch of flex or short pieces of conduit with factory bends or conduit bodies to only go eight feet is going to look like ****. He wants a gutter (or trough).

 

[Don1357]

Just use the appropriate size conduit.

Bending large diameter EMT is difficult without the correct tools. Use elbows.
OR
Flexible conduit. It does not have to be waterproof (Seal Tight). Just make sure it is the proper diameter and properly support along the run.

I think there are about 15+ cables that go into the breaker box. This is why I'm thinking gutter/raceway instead of separate conduit for each cable.

 

[Don1357]

A different approach: how many wires can I put on a schedule 40 3" PVC conduit?

The plan on this approach would be to put the feeder cable on its own conduit and the rest of the Romex cables on a 3" conduit.

 

[sparky 1971]

A different approach: how many wires can I put on a schedule 40 3" PVC conduit?

Short answer is as many as will fit. It's conductor size dependent, but if you are truly trying to be code compliant, the answer is not enough to get 15 cable in there because de-rating is going to kill you, that isn't dependent on conduit size.

The plan on this approach would be to put the feeder cable on its own conduit and the rest of the Romex cables on a 3" conduit.

If it's truly a feeder, it can be in the raceway. A feeder runs from a breaker to feed a panel. Service entrance conductors are what go from the meter to the main breaker. It's not very clear what you mean when you state that you stole 100 amps. Did you double tap the meter socket or go from a 200 amp meter main or disconnect to feed the panel in question?

 

[SBAG]

We used a mixture of greenfield (flexible conduit) and gutter in my power shed. Might give you an idea of how they would look on the wall:

 

[wyliesdiesels]

We used a mixture of greenfield (flexible conduit) and gutter in my power shed. Might give you an idea of how they would look on the wall:

yikes!

 

[SBAG]

yikes!

Meh, you do what you need to avoid DC and AC being mixed….and try to stay in code (though I don’t have to follow it strictly if there is a very good reason not to).

A semi retired industrial electrician helped me with this; or I helped him, not sure. Just throwing that in before the back seat shade tree electricians arrive.

 

[PCustoms]

A semi retired industrial electrician helped me with this; or I helped him, not sure.

An industrial electrician wired my house...

I've since removed all the wiring and replaced everything from the pole. There was some scary hack work buried everywhere. I think my favorite was 120v on the bare ground, in the box he added telephone wire jacket cutoffs to insulate it.

 

[SBAG]

An industrial electrician wired my house...

I've since removed all the wiring and replaced everything from the pole. There was some scary hack work buried everywhere. I think my favorite was 120v on the bare ground, in the box he added telephone wire jacket cutoffs to insulate it.

Meh, most of mine is MC and a good chuck of it is a size larger than required. 20A 240v? It got 30A.

My battery cables are 4/0 when 2/0 would have sufficed.

Size larger than require on the 280 foot pull from my (72) panels. Larger conduit than was required. We even laid in an extra conduit run for expansion.

The end termination to those lightning arrestors (the light bulb looking things) are wired up with some sort of industrial connector that kind of looks like a wago but a hell of a lot heavier duty and that uses screws.

This guy was also the head electrician at a three turbine coal power plant. Not really worried.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Some of that looks to be FMC NOT MC

 

[SBAG]

Some of that looks to be FMC NOT MC

Sigh, **** me. I said in the first post that (pictured) is greenfield/flexible conduit. This is a shed. A 12x12 shed (previously referred to as my “power shed”) that houses my inverters, around 135 KWH of batteries, and a small server setup. The MC cable is in my SHOP. Regular AC lines. In a shop.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Sigh, **** me. I said in the first post that (pictured) is greenfield/flexible conduit. This is a shed. A 12x12 shed (previously referred to as my “power shed”) that houses my inverters, around 135 KWH of batteries, and a small server setup. The MC cable is in my SHOP. Regular AC lines. In a shop.

Sorry man i cant keep track of everyones’ projects and every detail

 

[grounded-b]

Sorry for the delay responding; too many projects not enough time...


Not arguing with you just wondering; every single Romex cable going through a wall is in wood.

Romex cable, by itself can run through wood. Once you put a splice in it, the splice must must enclosed by a listed encolsure ( plastic, metal, box or wireway ).

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Romex cable, by itself can run through wood. Once you put a splice in it, the splice must must enclosed by a listed enclosure ( plastic, metal, box or wireway ).

except for these

Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit 2 Wire, 1/Clam A22899-000 - The Home Depot

Experience fast and reliable way of splicing or tapping metallic cables with this Romex Splice Kit from Tyco Electronics.

www.homedepot.com

 

[dscheidt]

except for these

Tyco Electronics Romex Splice Kit 2 Wire, 1/Clam A22899-000 - The Home Depot

Experience fast and reliable way of splicing or tapping metallic cables with this Romex Splice Kit from Tyco Electronics.

www.homedepot.com

Tyco no longer sells them, probably because inspectors started enforcing the codes around their usage. they are only listed for repair of damage to existing wiring (of the "oh ****, I hit the wire with the drill" sort), not for extending or modifying a circuit, and not for new construction. the cable also has to secured on both sides. that makes using them less attractive.

 

[alfredeneuman]

That seems gigantic to me (8"x8"). Does it need to be that big?

The conduit fill limit isn't the same for individual wires.
You have to have bigger conduit or gutter with Romex

 

[alfredeneuman]

Meh, you do what you need to avoid DC and AC being mixed…

In most cases you're allowed to mix AC and DC in the same conduit regardless of the voltage if the wire is rated for the highest voltage present.

 

[dave*99]

This worked well for me when I had to rewire a 90 year old house. Drilling all the floor joists was not an attractive option. There is a table explaining how much NM-B it can hold.

Arlington Industries CableWay Cable Runway Support System

Arlington Industries AI-T205 CableWay cable tray support system is non-metallic and perfect for power or low voltage cable, new construction or retrofit. Its modular design is easy-to-install and protects cables from damage and reduces the amount of space needed for cable wiring and installation.

www.cableorganizer.com

 

[dave*99]

This guy was also the head electrician at a three turbine coal power plant. Not really worried.

The head electrician at the place I used to work stuck his head a little too far into some energized equipment.
He's not with us anymore.

 

[SBAG]

The head electrician at the place I used to work stuck his head a little too far into some energized equipment.
He's not with us anymore.

***** to be him.



What do you want me to do with that info?

The ****** post was to show OP what a gutter vs greenfield might look on the wall.

I should have known better to post it….pricks abound.

 

[SBAG]

In most cases you're allowed to mix AC and DC in the same conduit regardless of the voltage if the wire is rated for the highest voltage present.

It’s going from 500v DC to 240v 100+ amp AC back to 48v DC with an 2000A rated bus and comprised of 12 48V 230AH batteries (with appropriate BMS with contactors along with Blue Sea fuses and MidNite/Carlye DC rated breakers) and then at night/extremely cloudy days it need to be converted back to 240v split. And it can be providing power both from the AC coupled line inverters and the batteries at the same time. It’s running on various appropriate sized wires in the simplest way possible and mostly to code (batteries are DIY so they aren’t UL listed and I am unaffected by the NEC).

But in other news, I don’t give a **** on the opinions presented here. It’s done right.

And that’s the last I’m posting about it.