Electric vs gas heater

[wiegs1]

If a three car garage was well insulated and they wanted a heater for really cold winter days where the garage will dip below freezing, would it be worth investing in a gas heater?

Living in Wisconsin I feel one could get by with a larger electric heater for those cold days.


Thoughts?

 

[threeputt]

I would go broke if I tried to heat my shop with an electric heater. Gas is always better in my opinion. I have natural gas piped in my shop and I use it in the winters even though in the south we don't get as cold as you do

 

[James-W]

Is the garage going to be heated all the time but just turned down to like 50 degrees?

If the only time the heater will run is on really cold days and only for a short time, then electric would work out. But if the heater is used quite a bit, then I would go with natural gas.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Electric is the cheapest to install and the most costly to operate.

Gas (forced air or radiant tube) is more expensive to install but much cheaper to operate.

If the only time the heater will run is on really cold days and only for a short time, then electric would work out. But if the heater is used quite a bit, then I would go with natural gas.

Yep ! It just depends how many hours per year you will actually be running it !

 

[wiegs1]

Electric is the cheapest to install and the most costly to operate.

Gas (forced air or radiant tube) is more expensive to install but much cheaper to operate.



Yep ! It just depends how many hours per year you will actually be running it !

That is what I’m trying to figure out...... not sure if installing gas is worth the up front cost.

 

[Falcon67]

>It just depends how many hours per year you will actually be running it !

That's it. On really cold days - that's in the 20~30s here - my 5 kW unit will keep the 12x24 work room at 68 and cycle maybe 10 minutes/hr. YMMV as they say. So about $0.0825/hr cost at our current rate.

 

[Stuart in MN]

First thing is you need to figure out what size heater you need. There are any number of heat loss calculation applications online, run the numbers through a few of them to see how many BTU you need. Once you know that, you can figure out what size gas and what size electric heater would be required.

Then, look at your electric bill and your gas bill to find out how much you pay per unit for each one, and determine how often you would be using a heater in a month. With that information you can finally calculate the cost of running each type.

 

[xjfish]

^ Excellent advice. I had the same question not too long ago wiegs. I personally ended up going with gas. Up front cost for me was at least $2,000 more for a smaller 2-car garage.

 

[James-W]

First thing is you need to figure out what size heater you need. There are any number of heat loss calculation applications online, run the numbers through a few of them to see how many BTU you need. Once you know that, you can figure out what size gas and what size electric heater would be required.

Then, look at your electric bill and your gas bill to find out how much you pay per unit for each one, and determine how often you would be using a heater in a month. With that information you can finally calculate the cost of running each type.

I agree with everything you said, but there is one more thing to factor into the equation and unfortunately you have no sure fire way to do it. Wisconsin can have some EXTREMELY cold Winters and it can have some really mild Winters. If the upcoming Winter is mild, then the amount of use from a heater would be pretty slim. On the other hand, if we have a super cold Winter, completely different story.

 

[James-W]

^ Excellent advice. I had the same question not too long ago wiegs. I personally ended up going with gas. Up front cost for me was at least $2,000 more for a smaller 2-car garage.

I have a 24X36 garage and I had my natural gas heater installed rather than do it myself. I contacted the gas company and had them run the natural gas from the street to the outside of the garage and install a gas meter.

Then I bought a 60,000 BTU Hot Dawg heater from a local heating/cooling company come and and install it for me. Total cost was right at $2,000 but they handled everything and it looks really good and works VERY well. I couldn't be happier with it.

 

[pbon]

I would use natural gas and install a thermostat and heat full time.

 

[cadunkle]

Be aware most unit heaters, or most any 80* non condensing heater, advise to heat to a minimum of 50*. I believe this is because when heating to lower temps for freeze protection there is a risk of condensation within the unit rusting out the heat exchanger. I'd guess it would be cheaper to heat to 50* with a gas heater than 40* with electric, but you'd have to crunch numbers and see how far out ROI on the extra cost of gas is. Also consider electric service size and desired temperature rise when working out there vs temp you'll leave it at, unless you have the amps to run a really massive electric heater even a smaller gas unit will heat the space up a lot more quickly.

Personally when temps get low enough that the garage could get to freezing I just leave the heat on 50*. Turn it up to 72* when I work in there and thermostat is set for each period spaced evenly throughout the day to return to 50* in case I forget to turn it down. I did this with a way oversized 115k BTU furnace that was in the garage when I got it, and I'll do the same this year with a more appropriately sized 45k Sterling unit heater I replaced it with.

For how I use a garage if it did not have gas but it was available, I would absolutely use a gas heater in Wisconsin. I truly hate the cold and even in the relatively mild mid Atlantic I've done enough time wrenching on stuff in frigid drafty garages or outside laying in the snow. It would be worth the additional upfront time and money just for the comfort and quick temperature rise or recovery after opening the rollup door of a gas heater, regardless of how far out ROI is.

 

[purplezr2]

No sure if your garage is attached or detached, but I know I had only plan to keep mine like 50 degrees, but after using it last year, and seeing how nice it was, I have it set at 65 now. TV on the wall and a couch, it is awesome for working on projects in the evening. Mine is attached so it's almost like a second living room.

 

[BigGarage]

That is what I’m trying to figure out...... not sure if installing gas is worth the up front cost.

Don't use gas or electric. If it's not going to be on all the time and only used when someone is out there doing something then use propane and the size heater you need.

A 100lb. tank is about 90$ and it's 59$ to fill it (Mich.). I have 3 100lb. tanks and 2 heaters. In my 2 1/2 car area where the cars park I may use both heaters on a cold day until it warms up then I'll shut one off. I park a fan over it to spread the heat around. I don't have any insulation but I have cinderblock walls and a ceiling to hold in the heat. In a cold winter where I'm out there doing things sometime my 3 tanks will last 2 winters.

P.S. I have a gas line out there also and a 40000 btu heater in another room but I haven't used it in years.

I just looked on the Home Depot site and the 100lb. tanks are 155$. I paid 85$ for mine but that was awhile ago.

Dennis

 

[Showkey]

Any location is Wisconsin NAT gas will substantially cheaper to operate.
All things being equal and efficiency accounted for:

My NAT Gas is 67.6% cheaper than ( resistance ) heating with electric.

1000 sqft stand alone shop well insulated set at 50* off hours and 65 during use costs about .30 per day depending on the month.

There are on line calculators where you plug in your values for equipment and fuel costs.

As far as propane it’s about twice as much as NAT gas at this time.
Propane only makes sense if NAT gas is not available. Or in use very little.......once the shop is heated it’s gets used more


Obviously if your heating few days per month........any thing will work and torpedo heater would do the trick if you don’t mind the smell, noise and other issues.

 

[BigGarage]

Any location is Wisconsin NAT gas will substantially cheaper to operate.
All things being equal and efficiency accounted for:

My NAT Gas is 67.6% cheaper than ( resistance ) heating with electric.

1000 sqft stand alone shop well insulated set at 50* off hours and 65 during use costs about .30 per day depending on the month.

There are on line calculators where you plug in your values for equipment and fuel costs.

As far as propane it’s about twice as much as NAT gas at this time.
Propane only makes sense if NAT gas is not available. Or in use very little.......once the shop is heated it’s gets used more


Obviously if your heating few days per month........any thing will work and torpedo heater would do the trick if you don’t mind the smell, noise and other issues.

Although the OP didn't state it clearly I think he inferred that he did not have a natural gas line. He mentioned the upfront cost to have it. Bearing this in mind and trying to decide between gas, electric or propane the propane clearly wins. I've been using it for more than 20 years and I'm very happy with it for the limited times I use it. Like I wrote, my 3 100lb. tanks will last for 2 winters as I usually use them. If I have an emergency and have to work on a car for a couple of days I might tap into the 3rd tank. I don't know as that has not happened yet.

P.S. I don't know what propane costs where you are but here it is $8.49 for a 20lb. tank and $59.04 for a 100lb. tank. I just filled them a week ago. That's not bad considering the upfront cost of installing a natural gas line, buying a heater and doing the work involved.

The OP can make his own choice based upon what he thinks concerning usage and cost.

Dennis

 

[Showkey]

If we are going to talk logic and low cost and the value of heating a three car attached garage for a few days or weeks when it gets really cold?

Wisconsin: Three car attached well insulated in really cold weather.......water on the floor never freezes with no added heat.

The cars in attached garage will benefit very little in a 10-20* increase in temperature vs ambient.

There have been long discussions on the forum of the benefits or problems caused by warm garages with high humidity and ice /snow melt and salty water.

 

[pbon]

Does the OP have a cost to install the gas line? I like gas because it’s hassle free. Buying or renting tanks and arranging propane deliveries would be worthwhile to me only if the gas line would be expensive in comparison.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I agree with everything you said, but there is one more thing to factor into the equation and unfortunately you have no sure fire way to do it. Wisconsin can have some EXTREMELY cold Winters and it can have some really mild Winters. If the upcoming Winter is mild, then the amount of use from a heater would be pretty slim. On the other hand, if we have a super cold Winter, completely different story.

Yes, the actual low temperature in any winter will vary. Heat loss calculations are based on the "design temperature" for a specific area - it will get colder than that temperature for only 1% of the hours in a year.

 

[MattT]

Although the OP didn't state it clearly I think he inferred that he did not have a natural gas line. He mentioned the upfront cost to have it. Bearing this in mind and trying to decide between gas, electric or propane the propane clearly wins.

Propane doesn't "clearly beat" electric on installed or operating costs. Took a quick look on Amazon and you could do a 5kW shop heater for $200 DIY installed cost so long as the heater is within 50 feet of a panel with enough capacity. And that price includes the beer

Operating cost depends on your local prices. For me 9 cents/kWh and $2.00 a gallon are a wash. And that's before you include the time and cost of maintaining a supply of propane.

 

[James-W]

I don't know what propane costs where you are but here it is $8.49 for a 20lb. tank and $59.04 for a 100lb. tank. I just filled them a week ago. That's not bad considering the upfront cost of installing a natural gas line, buying a heater and doing the work involved.

The last time I bought propane for the gas grill, 20lb tank, it was a little over $16 for an exchange. We used to be able to fill tanks at ACE Hardware but they don't do that anymore. Now they only exchange the tanks for you.

I am sure the cost would be less if you could get the tank filled instead of doing an exchange. But depending on whether you have a place nearby to get the tank filled, that may not be an option. Well, I am sure you can get it filled someplace but you may have to drive a ways in order to do it.

 

[Showkey]

^^^^^^^^^^^ plus most of the $15 exchange places are actually only 15lbs of propane.
Our ACE and propane suppliers give a full 20lbs fill for $20.


(The exchange places were sued years back for the short fill because they did not disclose the 15lbs. They now label the tanks and signage as 15lbs.)

As mentioned the avg is propane is often twice the price of NAT gas. Since it’s average there’s highs and lows in pricing.

 

[TractorJeff]

I had a 500 watt heater under the ceiling fan in a 900sqft insulated running 24/7 last winter. It held 38 on super cold days and 43 on most other days. Electric bill was only $20 higher per month. If I was going to be working in there on Saturday, I would got out there Friday night to turn on the Propane Radiant heater. In the morning it would be 58 to 62 degrees.

 

[finn]

Natural gas has a lot of hidden costs for small users. We just bought a house in the sun belt for a winter hideaway. Spent less than a week there at closing, so we had maybe six showers and cooked a pizza in the gas oven. Used 5 therms, according to the first bill, at a total cost, including fees, of around $56.

I think, based on that, a propane tank may be cheaper for part time heating if there isn’t already gas service installed to the property.

 

[ripperd]

Is the garage going to be heated all the time but just turned down to like 50 degrees?

If the only time the heater will run is on really cold days and only for a short time, then electric would work out. But if the heater is used quite a bit, then I would go with natural gas.

I ran the numbers for here in MN, and the above is the answer.

Gas heater all-in cost is $2000-3000. constant usage to keep at 50 degrees is $10 to $50/month

Electric heater all-in cost is $500-1000. constant usage to keep at 50 degrees would have been 50-$150/month.

Payoff for gas is something like 5 or so years. Note that it is longer than expected since you are only heating for 3-5months a year.

If you only heat it once a week or so when you are working out there, electric is cheaper overall. But it also generally heats slower too.

 

[Dust2dust02]

Gas all the way!

 

[That1Guy]

Plus it's difficult to heat the place with electric during a power outage.
Natural gas and propane keep flowin.
Even a small generator can keep a gas furnace operating.
Not sure how much genny you'd need for electric heat.
Just something to consider especially if you live in an area prone to outages.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Although the OP didn't state it clearly I think he inferred that he did not have a natural gas line. He mentioned the upfront cost to have it. Bearing this in mind and trying to decide between gas, electric or propane the propane clearly wins. I've been using it for more than 20 years and I'm very happy with it for the limited times I use it. Like I wrote, my 3 100lb. tanks will last for 2 winters as I usually use them. If I have an emergency and have to work on a car for a couple of days I might tap into the 3rd tank. I don't know as that has not happened yet.

P.S. I don't know what propane costs where you are but here it is $8.49 for a 20lb. tank and $59.04 for a 100lb. tank. I just filled them a week ago. That's not bad considering the upfront cost of installing a natural gas line, buying a heater and doing the work involved.

The OP can make his own choice based upon what he thinks concerning usage and cost.

Dennis

For reference a 100 pound propane tank holds about 23.6 gallons of propane so you are paying $2.50/gallon for propane. Currently, I am paying 84 cents per therm for natural gas (this includes all charges on my bill)...which equates to a price equal to 79.7 cents per gallon of propane....roughly 300% more for propane than natural.

Propane isn't normally 3 times as much as natural gas. It's more expensive, but not that much more. Where it really gets expensive is in cylinders rather than than 500 or 1000 gallon bulk tanks.

Phil

 

[BD1]

That is what I’m trying to figure out...... not sure if installing gas is worth the up front cost.

Check with utilitity company. If you are all electric they have a discounted rate.
Maybe call insurance company to see if the rate us different. I know may state a garage heater must be for garage use.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aventino68]

I don't have the town gas option so it's propane for me over electric. With a new garage, heavily insulated, 1800 sq ft in Ontario and keeping it at least 10C/50F in winter but taking it up to 18C/65F when I want to work what size propane tank and heater will I need to last a winter?

 

[TractorJeff]

If I had to guess, I would tell you to go 45K BTU on a 400 gallon tank?

Reasoning is the neighbor has a bigger party garage that he heats with a Propane Furnace and a 400 gallon tank. He seems to get through the Winter ok.
Talked to my buddy that uses Milton Propane delivered at a cost of $1.79 a gallon. He told me last year it was $1.45 a gallon on his 1000 gallon tank. The local Supplier over here is in the $2.29 a gallon range for 100lb fills.

 

[Stuart in MN]

I don't have the town gas option so it's propane for me over electric. With a new garage, heavily insulated, 1800 sq ft in Ontario and keeping it at least 10C/50F in winter but taking it up to 18C/65F when I want to work what size propane tank and heater will I need to last a winter?

I'll give you the same advice I posted earlier:

First thing is you need to figure out what size heater you need. There are any number of heat loss calculation applications online, run the numbers through a few of them to see how many BTU you need. Once you know that, you can figure out what size gas and what size electric heater would be required.

Then, look at your electric bill and your gas bill to find out how much you pay per unit for each one, and determine how often you would be using a heater in a month. With that information you can finally calculate the cost of running each type.