Electrical Advise For Dummies

[red vette mike]

I am adding on a garage addition at my house. It will have some 220v appliances (heat/ac, lift, air compressor, welder plus lights). The energy provider (Entergy) came by yesterday-a real nice fellow. I have been thinking of adding a new service meter for this addition (I have a 200amp panel now and it is old and not convenient to this new addition). My electrician says I need another 200amp panel and agrees that my best bet is to have a new service line run to the new building. There is a distance factor here. I am about 275 feet from a pole with a transformer on it. Since this is an addition, all expense will be on me as regards running the power to the new panel. The electrician says I need a 3-0 wire. A 3-0 copper wire is over $21 per foot!! Can you 'make up' such a wire and then run it in conduit for less than that? (All service has to be underground.) Remember, you are dealing with an electrical dummy here.
Thanks,
Mike

 

[bmwpower]

Go with an aluminum wire for underground service (direct burial). You'll have to go with a bigger wire, but it may be cheaper, that is if price is a concern. The copper wire I think you're referring to (THHN) needs to be in conduit the entire length since it's not for direct burial. Copper wire, by itself, it always more money that aluminum, but aluminum wire has a tendency to loosen up more at the lugs and requires more attention (corrosion inhibitor).

 

[bob944]

Copper seems to be continuously climbing in price faster than gas! I'm looking at about 50' of basic 4-3 Nomex feeding a sub-panel and I got sticker shock when I checked the price a week ago, and in just a matter of days it jumped another $0.30/foot ($4.90 to $5.20). I wouldn't plan on copper prices getting much better any time soon so don't wait too long!

Good Luck,
Andy

 

[Charles (in GA)]

From the pole to the meter is the responbility of the power company or co-op, They install it, you pay them whatever fees they charge. I would not think they would allow you to provide the wire for them to use, they have huge spools of wire and get it alot cheaper than you can. They will be using aluminum most certainly for the service entrance feed.

Here in GA, GA Power has a flat fee for up to a certain distance, then after that they charge per foot for the additional distance. They charged me $160 flat fee for about 100 ft straight line distance from transformer on pole, down and underground to the meter on the outbuilding. I've dealt with the local EMC also while helping a neighbor get underground service and they replaced the overhead for free with underground, but the charges would have been reasonable even if they had charged her. Never heard of a power company letting you run power lines then they hook them up, don't think that is done.

From the meter to the panel board is your responbility and if a real short run, copper would be feasable, but otherwise, you too should be using aluminum of the proper gauge. Its legal, works just as good as CU if sized correctly and if the proper anti-corrosive paste is used on connections as required by code, then it will be just as good a connection and last much longer than you will own the place I suspect.

Charles

 

[Dave Carney]

Charles is right on the money. The power company pulls that cable and it's no where close to that expensive. Just trenched for mine yesterday, all the electrician does is install the pvc conduit underground, with a rope in it, so the utility can pull their line through. At least that's how it works here.

 

[sberry]

Yes, there is absolutely no reason not to use alum wire, 4/0 is legal for 200A but a size up would be better for a run that long. When I do an install I get with the poco field engineer and get the wire spec written on the work order, I dont leave it to the installers to size it. More and more they are being subbed to contractors here. My neighbor just went thru this and it went in one ear and out the other, now he says, I cant believe they spliced on to the same overhead that was here for the original 100A service, he didnt do as I suggest and get it straight before hand so he gets what he got. I went to 400A last upgrade and one of the reasons was they were forced to change the wire out and I called the field engineer, stood right here and went over the work order. They even moved the pole for free. They originally wanted to run a long way but got them to bring hi voltage and set another pole, saved the fee for the per ft of the secondary at the same time as it gave me better service.

 

[Bradley Miller]

Around here they're stealing just about anything and everything to get copper. They're cutting it from houses under construction . . . they're even stealing the air conditioners outside of businesses (one had a mini-fortress of steel around it and they still came and cut it apart). I've also heard of them stealing the stuff from electrical substations -- taking the groundstraps right from the place. It amazes me that they don't at least check local recyclers on what's coming in.

 

[bobbyd]

I'll agree with everyone else. Cu prices are just stupid lately. Talking to the electrician on my current project, it costs him about $2600 to fill up his wire cart with all the different colors of THHN. Two years ago, $500 to $600.

 

[Stuart in MN]

If you go to the website of your local power company and look around a bit, you may be able to find information on what their requirements are for service installations. Most of them do these days.

I've found that every utility has slightly different regulations, so it's hard to make general statements - I work with a half dozen or different power companies around here, and it's a chore to remember who wants what.

 

[red vette mike]

I appreciate the responses. I have been in this house for over 25 years. The power company initially did run the line and set a pole to my meter base. However, now it looks as if it is in my best interest to set another service panel and meter base. Since that is the case Entergy is willing to run a line and put in a transformer for me. They will do this only overhead. I cannot have overhead here now so it must be underground and the difference in cost between overhead and underground will fall on me. That could be a lot-$2-3k according to the engineer. He is getting me the quote.
In any case, you kind folks have pointed me in the right direction-aluminum wire. That is what the utility is using and thus it will be ok for me to use. Hopefully this way I can avoid the $20 something per foot rip off. Thanks for your help.
Mike

 

[sberry]

The fee can vary according to the amount of devices you put on, when I install one it was 3K at first but if I put another well in and a cooler I got the install down to 0, I said, heck yes, 2 coolers and 2 more wells if that helps,,, ha

 

[malibu101]

Out of curiosity-Why can you not have an overhead service? The way I read it you said the utility will install an overhead line. Who's telling you that you cannot go overhead?
If you want it underground that's another story.

 

[red vette mike]

The subdivision I live in has covenants that prevent me from going overhead. I think the town itself also makes underground mandantory.
I did get a quote for 300 feet of 3-0 aluminum wire-$1400 (and that may not be a 'contractor's price'. That is a lot better than $20per foot ($6000!!) for copper.
Thanks,
Mike