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Electrical and water in same trench and sizing

H

HDtalk

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Want to run electrical and water (for a remote spigot) to my shed 100 feet from the house. Plan would be to trench 3 feet deep from the house towards the shed, then the trench would Y off with one leg going to the left side and the other going to the right side. The shed is 10 feet wide and want the water spigot for my garden.

Was thinking for the water to go through the concrete foundation at 3 feet below in the basement but the electrical would go through the rim joist and then down 2 feet into the trench.

Plan would be conduit for the electrical at 2 feet deep and may run the PEX though conduit as well. Relatively cheap and would be easy to replace in the future if needed.

Can they be in the same trench?

My main panel (150 amp) is another 50 feet away, so 150 to 160 feet total one way run. Would run 50 amp's, 240 volts to handle 15 amp lighting circuit and a couple of 20 amp circuits. I don't weld but maybe an air compressor might be used and a table saw or other hand tools. Pipe dream would be a small window unit ac Seems 6 awg copper wire should suffice, but not sure if going up to 4 awg to future proof is worthwhile?

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B

Bert_

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If they go in the same trench they should be at the same depth. Otherwise you're trying to dig under the electrical conduit if you ever need to fix a water line.
 
J

joe_padavano

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Jim greengo said:
Keep them seperate. Around here we bury water 5' deep for frost reasons.
Click to expand...

Not everyone lives in Frostbite Falls...

The required burial depth depends on where you live. Here the worst case frost line is about 30 inches. I went three feet. Every water line I've run to barns and field hydrants has also had power so I can run a heater in the water trough. Those went in about 20 years ago. The only time I've ever had to dig anything up has been to replace a couple of hydrants (one of which got backed into by a truck). The wire split off a ways from the hydrant. Putting both in the same trench is a non-issue.
 
T

The Cobbler

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my gas line had to be separated from electrical by 2' horizontally. electric & water had no rules other than depth. they are separated by probably 18" mostly . my electric had to be 18" deep I think, it's mostly 48" in same trench as water
 
J

Jim greengo

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joe_padavano said:
Not everyone lives in Frostbite Falls...

The required burial depth depends on where you live. Here the worst case frost line is about 30 inches. I went three feet. Every water line I've run to barns and field hydrants has also had power so I can run a heater in the water trough. Those went in about 20 years ago. The only time I've ever had to dig anything up has been to replace a couple of hydrants (one of which got backed into by a truck). The wire split off a ways from the hydrant. Putting both in the same trench is a non-issue.
Click to expand...
Until somebody starts digging up 1 not knowing the other is in the trench with it.
Water and electricity tend to be a bad combination in my experiance.
Back in the day some guys used to think laying sewer and water in the same trench was a great idea also.
Until somebody comes along years later with a back hoe and rips out the water service and doesnt know where the stop box is for water service is at or its stuck and they cant shut it off.
Utility installs and repairs were a big part of my business for a lot of years before I retired.
But by all means go with whatever works for you,just make sure every body else is thinking the same way.
I was with a buddy of mine years ago and we stopped at a job where he had somebody else digging up a sewer for him.
They were running wild with a back hoe and I mentioned to them that back in the day it was common for the plumbers to put the water service on a shelf next to sewer in same trench in that part of town .
They gave me the old what ever old man routine.
About 5 mins later you could hear them screaming across the yard and looked over and saw the geyser coming out of trench.:spit:
They're running around trying to figure out where the stop box was,my guess was under the big pile of frozen chunks of dirt they piled across the front of the property.
Watching them pinching the lead water service with 2 sledge hammers made it all worth while.:beer:
 
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OP
H

HDtalk

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I'll put down warning tape in the trench and also take pictures of the locations for future proofing. Can get a nice view from the second story.

I'm in SW Ohio and the frost depth is 30 or 32 inches so figured 36 should be plenty. I see the point about having to dig past the electrical to get to the water line. I'll probably go with 1" pex and it'll be sleeved though the foundation in PVC. Instead of the sleeve stopping a few inches past the outside of the foundation, would just extend the PVC all the way to the shed with the pex inside it. If the pex ever leaked, just disconnect at the shed and pull it back through to replace. The pvc "insurance" will only cost about $50 extra.





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M

mike93lx

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I'd use the same conduit. Water cooling the wiring should increase ampacity, lowering wire size needed? Right?

Location is really important here. If it was my house, i would run a decent quality hose at maybe 6" below grade. Gardens in New England don't need to be watered in the winter, so I drain all of my above and below ground hoses anyway before winter. Close to the surface makes changes and repairs a hell of a lot easier and less damaging to the grass.

My folks have many hundreds of feet of buried garden hose on their properly and they certainly didn't buy top quality. Every once and a while, a hose end breaks so they replace with a new one.
 
J

joe_padavano

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Jim greengo said:
Until somebody starts digging up 1 not knowing the other is in the trench with it.
Click to expand...

Every trench has a caution tape buried about 18" above any of the utilities. The utilities are bedded in a substantial amount of stone dust under that. The two together make it very obvious that there is something below. If the backhoe operator ignores these warnings, well, you can't make something idiot proof because idiots are so darn clever.
 
J

Jim greengo

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joe_padavano said:
Every trench has a caution tape buried about 18" above any of the utilities. The utilities are bedded in a substantial amount of stone dust under that. The two together make it very obvious that there is something below. If the backhoe operator ignores these warnings, well, you can't make something idiot proof because idiots are so darn clever.
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd say youd be pretty hard pressed to find caution tape in a trench around these parts,I spent a lot of years putting things in the ground around here.
And a lot of time digging up/repairing old stuff in the ground,I dint remember ever seeing any tape in the ground.
Even on stuff done by the power co or local gas co.
 
J

joe_padavano

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Jim greengo said:
Yeah I'd say youd be pretty hard pressed to find caution tape in a trench around these parts,I spent a lot of years putting things in the ground around here.
And a lot of time digging up/repairing old stuff in the ground,I dint remember ever seeing any tape in the ground.
Even on stuff done by the power co or local gas co.
Click to expand...

Well, all I can say is that I haven't had to dig anything up for repair in 20 years, so I guess it was installed correctly with quality materials. The couple of times I did need to dig for modifications the tape was right there.

To be honest, I don't really care what others do. This has worked fine for me for decades.
 
D

dcg9381

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I'm kinda curious about this too. Around here, trenching is very difficult and very expensive (last quote was $3800 for 150' of 200A AL wire in conduit)

I need to trench 2 x 100A, water feed, and data...

Freezing is not an issue.
 
J

Jim greengo

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joe_padavano said:
Well, all I can say is that I haven't had to dig anything up for repair in 20 years, so I guess it was installed correctly with quality materials. The couple of times I did need to dig for modifications the tape was right there.

To be honest, I don't really care what others do. This has worked fine for me for decades.
Click to expand...
Same here,everybody uses what works best for them.:beer:
 
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Jim greengo

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dcg9381 said:
I'm kinda curious about this too. Around here, trenching is very difficult and very expensive (last quote was $3800 for 150' of 200A AL wire in conduit)

I need to trench 2 x 100A, water feed, and data...

Freezing is not an issue.
Click to expand...

Last time I had to dig a trench for a new sewer install at my dads place in arkansas i swore I'd never dig another hole there as long I lived.
2 days with a back hoe ,a hydraulic stinking breaker and an electric jack hammer to trench 100' 8' deep! :spit:
He told me his neighbors wanted theres tied into the new city sewer also.
I told him to tell them $1000.00 a foot,that ended that discussion! :spit::spit::spit::spit:
 
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